The Knights of Wind and Truth Are Bondsmiths!

[Confused]

Hi, all! I’m writing a longer post about Roshar’s old gods when I just had this inspiration and had to share: The Knights of Wind and Truth are Bondsmiths! (Apologies if the muse visited someone else first...) Kal becomes Wind’s Bondsmith and Szeth becomes Night’s Bondsmith, holding Nightblood!

I don’t know what their powers will be. Maybe you guys can fill that in. Regards! C.

Edit: For the record, I think Roshar is alive. Living Roshar manifests as Stone - continental growth; Wind - erosion; and Night (spren?) - change? If a Rosharan listens carefully, they'll hear Roshar's tones and rhythms. IMO, Roshar's "music" enables a "singer" (Bondsmith?) to use the gods to make magic.

Edited October 17, 2024 by Confused

[Markolius]

Like this theory!

Thought about this too, and have a theory, what if Wind, Stone and Night are sprens of Adonalsium, as we know sprens was on Roshar before arriving of Shards, and Roshar was created by Adonalsium himself. Sounds crazy but there's few points about this:

1) Sprens created bonds with Radiants looking on Oathpact between Heralds and Honor, so we can use same analogy on creating sprens by Honor and Cultivation - they arrived on a planet, and finds ancient sprens created by Adonalsium, and decided to make something similar by himself.

2) We know that Night changed, and Wind started hiding - this could be consequences of Shattering, in analogy Stormfather changed after Tanavast death.

I think about this theory because it would allow Kaladin became Bondsmith and don't leave his bond with Syl, because in this case he will be like Hoid, having different types of investiture, one from Shard, and one from whole Adonalsium.

So maybe he will become Bondsmith with power, that was created with all 16 Intents. That also will explain why Hoid gave him lesson how to hear Wind.

What do you think about this theory?

P.S. I hope all this would be readble and don't look like gibberish of madman

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

8 hours ago, Markolius said:

Like this theory!

Thought about this too, and have a theory, what if Wind, Stone and Night are sprens of Adonalsium, as we know sprens was on Roshar before arriving of Shards, and Roshar was created by Adonalsium himself. Sounds crazy but there's few points about this:

1) Sprens created bonds with Radiants looking on Oathpact between Heralds and Honor, so we can use same analogy on creating sprens by Honor and Cultivation - they arrived on a planet, and finds ancient sprens created by Adonalsium, and decided to make something similar by himself.

2) We know that Night changed, and Wind started hiding - this could be consequences of Shattering, in analogy Stormfather changed after Tanavast death.

I think about this theory because it would allow Kaladin became Bondsmith and don't leave his bond with Syl, because in this case he will be like Hoid, having different types of investiture, one from Shard, and one from whole Adonalsium.

So maybe he will become Bondsmith with power, that was created with all 16 Intents. That also will explain why Hoid gave him lesson how to hear Wind.

What do you think about this theory?

P.S. I hope all this would be readble and don't look like gibberish of madman

Hmmmmmm… what if instead of sprens, they are Aethers… and Spren are just imitation of the Aether… and Kal would be able to bond it without any conflicts with Syl…

Tress and Aether of Night spoilers.

Spoiler

We know that midnight essence has been sighted on Roshar multiple times, and what better place to get it from an Aether? Remember, the big bad guy Aether in AoN was Night Aether, sounding suspiciously like Night, the ancient of Roshar.

[Grahamfactor]

20 hours ago, Confused said:

Kal becomes Wind’s Bondsmith and Szeth becomes Night’s Bondsmith, holding Nightblood!

What if there is a new spren called "Truth"?  Too on the nose even for Brandon?

Probably not bondable by Szeth though.

[Etedbert he/him]

53 minutes ago, Grahamfactor said:

What if there is a new spren called "Truth"?  Too on the nose even for Brandon?

Probably not bondable by Szeth though.

I’ve taken the Truth half of Wind and Truth as reference to the Skybreaker 5th Oath. Where they embody “Truth”.
 

I take it to mean that Szeth will swear the fifth ideal, and that Kaladin will either bond with, or serve as champion for the Wind in some regard. Making Kaladin and Szeth each a knight of Wind and Truth respectively.

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

19 hours ago, Etedbert said:

I’ve taken the Truth half of Wind and Truth as reference to the Skybreaker 5th Oath. Where they embody “Truth”.
 

I take it to mean that Szeth will swear the fifth ideal, and that Kaladin will either bond with, or serve as champion for the Wind in some regard. Making Kaladin and Szeth each a knight of Wind and Truth respectively.

Wait what about truthwatchers or lightweavers, though? They have much more to do with what’s truth.

Also, skybreakers embody the “law” for 5th ideal.

[Etedbert he/him]

6 minutes ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

Wait what about truthwatchers or lightweavers, though? They have much more to do with what’s truth.

Also, skybreakers embody the “law” for 5th ideal.

Correct, but a lot of the language around that 5th Oath also discusses truth.

Szeth’s spren:

Quote

If you progress as a Skybreaker, you will need to become the law. To reach your ultimate potential, you must know the truth yourself, rather than relying on the crutch presented by the Third Ideal. Be aware of this.

And when first telling Szeth about the 5th ideal in OB, Ki says “personification of law and truth”

I feel like people focus too heavily on the Law part, and ignore the Truth half of it. To become an embodiment of law is to be able to determine the truth of any matter. In practice, I think we’ve seen this happen when Nale sides with the Singers. He moved beyond the scale of the law of the land, and determined the “truth” of what he viewed as the proper law, that of the singers over that of men.
If you cannot determine that truth yourself, you are still held back by the written law, and the flaws within.

If Szeth swears the fifth ideal, he has to move beyond his reliance on the decisions of others. It’s a clear path for his arc. He started as Truthless following the oathstone’s owner’s orders, then when he is revealed to not be truthless, he followed Nale and the Skybreakers to maintain structure and cope with his actions. Then he chooses to follow Dalinar. The first time he really chose anything, even if it was a choice to not make more choices. Going to Shinovar wasn’t even solely his choice, he put a caveat with the oath, “…so long as Dalinar Kholin agrees”. He’s slowly beginning to act with more personal agency, and killing Taravangian was the second major choice he made for himself.

I think Szeth will need to take some action against the orders of Dalinar, and in choosing for himself what the Truth is, and what is truly lawful, he’ll achieve the 5th ideal.

Lightweavers deal with personal truth. Being able to identify and reflect on themselves, and who they are. They engage in self-actualization rather than a discussion of external truth.

We know far less about Truthwatchers, but from what we’ve been told, they seem to deal more in objective truth. Of what happened in given situations, and regarding the lies of others. They hold others accountable to the truth, and fight against abuses of power.

Skybreakers then deal with legality, and the truth of ethical dilemmas. Lower ideal Skybreakers swear to a structured, pre-existing “truth” whether that be a person, or a legal code. A 5th ideal Skybreaker determines what the “truth” is themselves, beyond existing power structures.

They all deal with similar motifs, but have different extrapolations of the same ideas. And given that we know Kaladin and Szeth are the titular “Knights of Wind and Truth” that’s why I think Szeth represents the Truth half of that pairing.

I can pull the full quote of Ki talking about the 5th ideal and update it here later tonight^

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

On 10/17/2024 at 8:50 AM, Markolius said:

Like this theory!

Thought about this too, and have a theory, what if Wind, Stone and Night are sprens of Adonalsium, as we know sprens was on Roshar before arriving of Shards, and Roshar was created by Adonalsium himself. Sounds crazy but there's few points about this:

1) Sprens created bonds with Radiants looking on Oathpact between Heralds and Honor, so we can use same analogy on creating sprens by Honor and Cultivation - they arrived on a planet, and finds ancient sprens created by Adonalsium, and decided to make something similar by himself.

2) We know that Night changed, and Wind started hiding - this could be consequences of Shattering, in analogy Stormfather changed after Tanavast death.

I think about this theory because it would allow Kaladin became Bondsmith and don't leave his bond with Syl, because in this case he will be like Hoid, having different types of investiture, one from Shard, and one from whole Adonalsium.

So maybe he will become Bondsmith with power, that was created with all 16 Intents. That also will explain why Hoid gave him lesson how to hear Wind.

What do you think about this theory?

P.S. I hope all this would be readble and don't look like gibberish of madman

Wait, didn't Hoid already confirm that the Wind was a spren of Adonalsium?

Quote

“When this world was created,” Wit said, “long before Honor, Cultivation, or Odium arrived, Adonalsium left something behind on it. Sometimes it’s called the Old Magic. That term is applied to the Nightwatcher, who came—with Cultivation’s efforts—from one of those ancient spren. Listen to the Wind when it speaks, Kaladin. It’s weaker than it once was, but it has seen so very much.”

Quote

So I’m sending you off, Kaladin. Hoping that if the Wind spoke to you, then some piece of that ancient deity is watching. Because when everything feels wrong, all I can do is hope.

Those 3 (Night, Wind, Stone) are the OG siblings and OG spren of Roshar and Adonalsium. We also have confirmation that the original bondsmiths did bond with those 3 spren, instead of the more recent Nightwatcher, Stormfather, or Sibling. Kaladin will very likely bond with the Wind and become an OG bondsmith, but I'm not so sure about the Knight of Truth.... maybe Shallan? Perhaps she bonds with Ba-Ado-Mishram or something? We still know very little about where BAM came from or what they really are now.

On a side note about the Night - we know she left and that people didn't really vibe with her. But I do like the idea of Nightblood having some connection to Night - perhaps when the scholars were on Roshar, Night was still there? Wait... did she leave WITH them? and allow them to forge (some of) her essence into the sword?...?

But also, there is a new death rattle I just read while doing my re-read in WoR. When Taravangian goes to Jah Keved to get the crown there passed on to him from Valam, Valam's bastard son kills him and then he says, "So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life.."

[Markolius]

2 hours ago, CognitiveShadow said:

On a side note about the Night - we know she left and that people didn't really vibe with her. But I do like the idea of Nightblood having some connection to Night - perhaps when the scholars were on Roshar, Night was still there?

What if... Nightwatcher know what happened to Night or maybe where she hides?!

Sounds stupid but why she was named like this?

[Etedbert he/him]

34 minutes ago, Markolius said:

What if... Nightwatcher know what happened to Night or maybe where she hides?!

Sounds stupid but why she was named like this?

Nightwatcher is probably named as such, because they were created from the “essence” of the Night spren, by Cultivation. Night became the Nightwatcher, or at the very least, the Nightwatcher is a new conscience created from the same investiture. That’s why they can use the Old Magic to grant boons and curses.

[Markolius]

4 minutes ago, Etedbert said:

Nightwatcher is probably named as such, because they were created from the “essence” of the Night spren, by Cultivation. Night became the Nightwatcher, or at the very least, the Nightwatcher is a new conscience created from the same investiture. That’s why they can use the Old Magic to grant boons and curses.

But why Stormfather and Sibling names tells they nature - one control storms and the other mayde with two kinds of investiture?

And i just found out question that i can't answer, maybe someone will refresh my memory - did storms of Roshar recharge investiture in gems before arriving of Shards? 

[logicless.bt]

On 10/17/2024 at 6:39 PM, Grahamfactor said:

What if there is a new spren called "Truth"?  Too on the nose even for Brandon?

Could be that one of the Unmade ruling Shinovar is referred to by the people as "Truth." I don't put much stock in this, but there is a world in which Kaladin bonds Wind to become a Bondsmith and rule Urithiru after Dalinar's Ascension and subsequent enslavement by Odium. I can see a crack theory about WaT being about the Knight who bonded Wind versus the Knight who bonded Truth, although I can't imagine why Szeth would bond Chemoarish or Dai-Gonarthis