Early Brandon. It shows.

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

But dun already means "gray brown", so ... ?

He was probably using it in the "lost lustre" sense that he uses in modern Stormlight (a sphere that has stopped shining), though I do not think that is supported by dictionary definitions.

8 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

When Topaz is leaving after the collapse of the Horwatcher headquarters, does his chariot suddenly materialize? I am listening to the audiobook, it's possible that I just tuned out, but my memory has him return to the ruins after the building is destroyed, and then ride off in a chariot.

It does, indeed. It is implied to be the Chariot he used to leave Melerand in Ch 22 - that he stashed before entering Ekrobila. But he is not shown recovering it on-screen.

• He jumps off of the roof with the girl, the place explodes as they run away
• <Scene Break>
• Hours have passed and he has stashed the girl and returned. But the chariot is not mentioned until he's about to leave after questioning Vorndor. 

[Nitpicking]

15 hours ago, Treamayne said:

• He jumps off of the roof with the girl, the place explodes as they run away
• <Scene Break>
• Hours have passed and he has stashed the girl and returned. But the chariot is not mentioned until he's about to leave after questioning Vorndor. 

It's almost the Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene, where the army is suddenly there, walking up over the line of hills.

[Nitpicking]

I stopped the audiobook to catch up on 6 hours of podcasts, but this bugged me throughout: Brandon, please stop your characters from abusing their horses. Every time they're supposed to anywhere, the driver/rider "whips" them. That's not how it works. Read Judy Tarr's essays. (https://reactormag.com/the-hard-working-horses-of-epic-fantasy/ and many others.)

[Nitpicking]

Finished.

Having just a few days ago watched the Shardcast on Sanderson Avalanches, we see their distant ancestor here. It has all the hallmarks they mentioned:

• Rapidly-switched points of view
• Learning new things about the magic
• Character secrets revealed
• Characters leveling up their magic (e. g. Ryalla's laserblast power, Topaz's creation power letting him drive a god away)

This has more falling action than most of Brandon's stuff. I like the very last scene, with Topaz having survived decapitation, thus making Ryalla's thinking he could survive anything literally true.

What's up with Topaz's ring? It clearly isn't what gives him the healing power, he returns from death after it's stolen! What will it do for our favorite new king? if anything. I mean, we're unlikely to ever find out what Brandon had in mind originally, but I'm curious.

The revelation that Jerick microkinetically cut his dad in half left me smiling, not tearful. It's so silly, and Jerick is damned whiny. If he hadn't done something, the armed assassin would probably still have killed his father, after all.

I also like Torell's redemption arc starting at the end of this book. If the sequel had been written, I can see him losing even more of his irritating qualities, teaching the prince, etc. He's a character type Brandon hasn't done much since: the ineffectual but basically well-intentioned man. Elend, maybe, at first.

The "Religions of Yolen" appendix, frankly, isn't all that cool compared to the Artes Arcana.

Overall ... interesting to read, not a good novel, but, as mentioned above, the author knew that and it'll be heavily rewritten, if Brandon's plans succeed and it finally becomes Hoid's origin story. Bye, Jerick. I hope to see Ryalla again, better written and with a better love interest (if any).

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

Overall ... interesting to read, not a good novel

I had similar conclusions. I wonder if it means something that the "Prime" designations are like this. I've read White Sand prose thrice and Aether of Night twice (and expect I will reread it again) but I don't think I'll reread this or TWoKP. 

You hit th enail on the head - Interesting to read. . . once.

[elihaun]

On 10/19/2024 at 11:30 PM, Nitpicking said:

I was just reminded today that I'll probably never see Dragonsteel the actual book. It's slated to follow the complete Stormlight Archive. That's minimum 20 years in the future. I'm 62.

im about half your age, but I feel this. My mom died while I was reading RoW, and honestly, I could not listen for a long while.  reading about kaladin going through loss and depression was WAY to close to home for me.  But when I finally forced myself to finish it 6 months later, it made me feel like a weight was lifted.  anyway, I say all this because I had bought my mom the Mistborn audiobook (my favorite brando sando series) to listen to.  She will never get to finish the series.  it makes me sad to know that I will never get to discuss the ending of hero of ages with her.  

But its not the destination that matters: its the journey. 

Edited November 1, 2024 by elihaun

[Nitpicking]

So, no spoilers here (for non-Dragonsteel Prime stories) but ... holy sh!t. I was not expecting that.

[dezaS Hᴇ/Hɪᴍ]

Of course there is the whole problem of Ryalla's whole arc being learning that even though she's a slave she doesn't have to obey her master Courteth even though the whole caste system is set up so that she does have to. The whole Ryalla/Courteth thing is the most glaringly obvious (to me) reason this is not up to par with Brando's later works.

[Nitpicking]

Courteth was a poorly-drawn character, and you're right that the Courteth/Ryalla relationship was bad.

I said above a few times: it isn't fair to judge this against something like Words of Radiance. Brandon knew perfectly well it wasn't a good novel, and has every intention of completely reworking it, the way he did with Way of Kings.

On 10/31/2024 at 8:22 PM, Treamayne said:

I had similar conclusions. I wonder if it means something that the "Prime" designations are like this. I've read White Sand prose thrice and Aether of Night twice (and expect I will reread it again) but I don't think I'll reread this or TWoKP.

EDIT: Coming back to this months later ... Did I mention that "prime" is Latin for "first"? English descendants include primary and primal and primeval. And, Latin not being English, also principal.

That was weird. Apparently, even months later, this forum software won't let me reply to @Treamayne again without merging my two replies. Annoying.

Edited February 2, 2025 by Nitpicking

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Nitpicking said:

That was weird. Apparently, even months later, this forum software won't let me reply to @Treamayne again without merging my two replies. Annoying.

Sharder FAQ has info on various quote and reply techniques, in case maybe the issue is the chosen method not working for the desired result. You should be able to reply to multiple posts (even if they are on different pages) with one reply.

Hope that helps

[Nitpicking]

11 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Sharder FAQ has info on various quote and reply techniques, in case maybe the issue is the chosen method not working for the desired result. You should be able to reply to multiple posts (even if they are on different pages) with one reply.

Hope that helps

I wanted to do the opposite: reply twice, in separate messages, to one post.

[Treamayne]

13 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

EDIT: Coming back to this months later ... Did I mention that "prime" is Latin for "first"? English descendants include primary and primal and primeval. And, Latin not being English, also principal.

That's why Brandon calls them Prime - the first (abandoned) version of a story getting an entire re-write. As opposed to White Sand Prime that nobody gets to read (the 90s version, not the White Sand Prose from early 2000s that we can get through the Newsletter) or Aether of Night (which is not a prime because the stary won't get a rewrite - too many elements reused elsewhere and the new Aether world story will be entirely different).

7 minutes ago, Nitpicking said:

I wanted to do the opposite: reply twice, in separate messages, to one post.

Like this? Two quotes from separate posts, added to a single reply.

Alternatively:

13 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

I said above a few times: it isn't fair to judge this against something like Words of Radiance. Brandon knew perfectly well it wasn't a good novel, and has every intention of completely reworking it, the way he did with Way of Kings.

Like this, a second separate quote frmm the same post, added for a separate response.

That said, I wonder if Courteth will even be part of the eventual Canon Dragonsteel. I get the feeling that Elements of Jerrick's story will be "canon" but none of that tale will be a part of the final Trilogy we receive after SA10.

Edited February 3, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Nitpicking]

29 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

That said, I wonder if Courteth will even be part of the eventual Canon Dragonsteel. I get the feeling that Elements of Jerrick's story will be "canon" but none of that tale will be a part of the final Trilogy we receive after SA10.

I can't see Courteth in her current "first draft" form being in the canon version. I'll never know, though.

[Nitpicking]

I just happened to come across this WoB (spoiler, I guess, if you haven't read the Stormlight Archive):

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

On Shallan's origins as a character: mostly derived from a character in Dragonsteel and Mat Cauthon. Specifically mentioned that she has issues with authority figures.

So, apparently Ryalla is Shallan's inspiration, as we thought.

[Nitpicking]

I happened to run into this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/188/#e3921

Bat'Chor is (it would seem) based on a real friend of Brandon's, "Bat-ultzi, a Mongolian ... He'd throw his shoes at people if they offended him. He was such a character that I got very interested in Mongolian practices and history."

[BrokenOaths1]

On 10/5/2024 at 9:19 PM, Treamayne said:

Yeah, it took me a bit to dig through as well - glad I read it once, but I doubt I'll read it again (ditto TWoK Prime - as opposed to both AoN and WS Prose - both of which I have read more than once). 

Specifically (without spoilers): Specific scenes that can be equated to scenes in a published work (even if most/many details are different)

More specifically (slight spoilers):

  Hide contents

Shattered Plains, Gaz, Bridge Crews, and the Dragonsteel version of the "Tower rescue," etc.

 

What is AoN and do you know where I can find it?

[Treamayne]

18 minutes ago, BrokenOaths1 said:

What is AoN and do you know where I can find it?

Aether of Night is the unpublished Sanderson Curiosity on the Aether homeworld (elements of the story were recycled into Mistborn Era 1, WoK, an other stories).

It's the only Curiosity that has been approved for distribution through these forums. The request thread is here. It is a Word document, if you would prefer to convert it to an ePub, information on that process is available here. Aether of Night forums are here. 

Also, in case it helps, please find the Admin's list of unpublished and free material here.

Hope that helps

Edited April 25, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[BrokenOaths1]

Thank you I will be checking it out.

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

The main thing that surprised me was that Courteth got magically ... attacked? ... by Topaz and at no point thought, "Hey, there's a possibility he might be a Sho Del," especially with all the hysteria at the time. I also thought Jerick's arc was too scattered, and none of the Parts bore any resemblance to each other. 

That said, I had an absolute blast reading it, even if it wasn't great. I also loved Frost and can't wait to see more of him!