helaran

[Moogle]

My interpretation of that was that Helaran was a Skybreaker (as in Nalan's organization), Taravangian is aware of that, and Taravangian thinks that some of them might be Surgebinders (since Skybreakers are an order of Radiants).

 

Or that they know enough Surgebinding lore that he could have taught Shallan. They do have a Herald at their head.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Moogle

[Oudeis he/him]

My interpretation of that was that Helaran was a Skybreaker (as in Nalan's organization), Taravangian is aware of that, and Taravangian thinks that some of them might be Surgebinders (since Skybreakers are an order of Radiants).

 

Or that they know enough Surgebinding lore that he could have taught Shallan. They do have a Herald at their head.

 

But he HAS to know that the Skybreaker raisin of the day is to kill Surgebinders. I guess there's the generic "but not my own sister" but that feels... I dunno. Trite.

 

EDIT: Also, not buying that Nale would allow Surgebinders, as he seems to think they will bring the end of the world. Also, not buying that Skybreakers necessarily know a lot about how to train someone in Surgebinding. Learning how to hunt bears teaches you VERY little about how to raise bears, especially when the point is to hunt bears into extinction.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Outis

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

Could Helaran have had dual, triple, or even quadruple membership in secret societies?  They aren't all at odds with each other about everything, I'm sure that there's common ground between them, and he could also have been a double agent or simply left one for another. 

 

note: Ookla's autocorrect (probably) changed "Raison d'être"  into "raisin of the day".

 

There's a bunch of stuff to indicate that he wasn't a Radiant either at the time of his death or when he first pulled the Shardblade on his father, so I'd take Taravangian's comment about him possibly training Shallan with a bit of skepticism.  It might have been simply that he could communicate basic concepts about Radiants to her that were not known to the masses.

[Illikis]

Secret Societies: 

 

1) New Radiants

2) Ghostbloods

3) The Diagram

4) Skybreakers

5) Sons of Honor

6) Worldsingers

7) Veristitalians

8) Stone Shamans

9) 17th Shard

10) Envisagers

11) Heralds

12) Oldbloods

 

Yeah, I know this is kind of a stretch.  The 17th Shard isn't strictly Rosharan, Oldbloods are more of an ethnicity, the Heralds are too few to be a society, the Envisagers are probably obsolete, and the Stone Shamans aren't exactly secret.  But hey, it's close enough.

 

I am a noob... I read about all these things but would appreciate a laman's terms walkthrough... Can someone explain briefly who are and what they are especially for Skybreaker, Sons of Honor, Ghostbloods, and Diagram.  These seem to be the biggest players in the first two books.

 

I was under the impression that Sons of Honor tried to stop the voidbringers but someone previously said they wanted it... but I thought that was the Ghostbloods... now I am all kinds of confused.

[Moogle]

I am a noob... I read about all these things but would appreciate a laman's terms walkthrough... Can someone explain briefly who are and what they are especially for Skybreaker, Sons of Honor, Ghostbloods, and Diagram.  These seem to be the biggest players in the first two books.

 

I was under the impression that Sons of Honor tried to stop the voidbringers but someone previously said they wanted it... but I thought that was the Ghostbloods... now I am all kinds of confused.

 

Here you are:

 

1) New Radiants - Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan, Renarin, etc. Shouldn't need explanation.

 

2) Ghostbloods - Mraize, Iyatil, Shallan(?), Shallan's father. What they want is unknown, but Jasnah has assassinated or otherwise gotten into fights with them before, so now they've tried to kill her. They oppose the Sons of Honor as far as we know, since they tried to kill Amaram. Symbol of three diamonds intersecting.

 

3) The Diagram - Taravangian, Graves, Moash. The Diagram is a book written as a plan to save the world and survive the upcoming Desolation by Taravangian at his smartest, and "Diagramists" or variations on that are the fan name given to the organization as a whole. They are seeking to survive the Desolation at any cost, up to and including mass killings to acquire prophecies. We don't know if they've specifically made any enemies of the other secret societies, though their motives clash with the Sons of Honor. Taravangian explains:

Q: For what essential must we strive? A: The essential of preservation, to shelter a seed of humanity through the coming storm. Q: What cost must we bear? A: The cost is irrelevant. Mankind must survive. Our burden is that of the species, and all other considerations are but dust by comparison. —From the Diagram, Catechism of the Back of the Flowered Painting: paragraph 1

 

4) Skybreakers - Nalan, Szeth(?), Helaran(? - Mraize says Shallan's brother sought out the Skybreakers, and it's probably not the three living ones). Once an order of the Knights Radiant, now none of them save Nalan seem to be able to Surgebind. Big on following the law and with the objective of stopping Surgebinders (because they think it'll prevent a Desolation, or at least Nalan thinks that). Seem to be in conflict with the Sons of Honor, as Helaran tried to kill Amaram way back when and then Kaladin killed him to take his Shards.

 

5) Sons of Honor - Amaram, at one point Gavilar (probably - Amaram mentions Gavilar and seems to think the return of the Heralds was a plan they were working on together), Restares (we don't know much about this person). The Sons of Honor seek to return the Heralds to mankind, and they've attempted to start a Desolation to do so. They, or at least Amaram, seem to be religious fanatics. Amaram writes their goals:

I do not exult in this success, he wrote. Lives will be lost. It has ever been our burden as the Sons of Honor. To return the Heralds, to return the dominance of the Church, we had to put the world into a crisis.

That crisis we now have, a terrible one. The Heralds will return. How can they not, with the problems we now face? But many will die. So very many. Nalan send that it is worth the loss.

 

6) Worldsingers - Hoid, Sigzil. Are well-known across the country as storytellers. Don't think they're quite a secret society.

 

7) Veristitalians - Jasnah. Historians who try to counter the bias of history and figure out what really happened.

 

8) Stone Shamans - Szeth's once-leaders.

 

9) 17th Shard - The three travelers looking for Hoid in the Purelake in WoK, Nazh, recipient of the letter. The one Hoid wrote the letter to seems to be interested in nonintervention, but what the rest are doing is unclear. The author of the Ars Arcanums at the end of every book (where magic systems are explained) seems to be a member.

 

10) Envisagers - Teft (kinda). A bunch of people who thought trying to put themselves into dangerous situations were going to give them powers. Basically, a misunderstood interpretation of how Surgebinders work lead to this cult. Teft went to the authorities when he learned of everyone nearly trying to commit suicide in the group, and managed to get them all killed.

 

11) Heralds - Explanations given previously.

 

12) Oldbloods - A group of Alethi we don't know much about. Dalinar comments on one of his officers belonging to the group. They have a blue tattoo on their cheeks. I forget, but I think we have a WoB on them saying... something innocuous, like they used to lead Alethkar but were deposed long ago.

[Scriptorian he/him]

As a semi-random aside, has anyone else noticed how the Esivangers are like a scaled-down version of the Sons of Honor? Esivangers endanger themselves to bring back the Radiants, while Sons of Honor endanger humanity to bring back the Heralds. Coincidence? Conspiracy?