Predictions for Stones Unhallowed

[Guest]

However, Adolin is more than just a good duelist.  He is a fantastic duelist.  He's one of the best.  In any fair duel, he is not going to be beaten down in a matter of minutes.  Then again, I don't think that Darkness would constrain himself to a fair duel against anyone, unless he was compelled by law.  

 

Szeth beat Adolin because of surprise and surges.  Adolin didn't know how to deal with a surgebinder.  Now he knows that they exist, and will be training to be prepared against them. 

 

He may be a fantastic duelist against regular fighters, but he is not quick enough on his own to fend of blows from a surgebinder. He could not even connect his Blade with Szeth in WoR. One strike from Szeth and he broke his wrist..,. I suspect Nale would have, at the very least, an advantage in speed and strength, so unless he is willing to fight like a regular man, then yeah I think Adolin is no match.

 

He'll prepare, but there is only so much he can do. If his opponent starts to change up and down or trust a force field at him: he can't do anything about it.

 

 

At the same time, now that Szeth has "died", the Stone Shamans are supposed to retrieve Jezrien's honorblade.  Once Nale is done with Shinovar, he will probably be heading for Urithiru.  There's an honorblade there, and multiple proto-radiants.  And if the Stone Shaman Honorblade Retrieval Team wants to get Jezrien's honorblade back, they would be wise to bring at least one honorblade with them.  

 

Maybe, just maybe, we will see a fight that includes the Stone Shaman Elite, the Kholins, and the Skybreakers.  Multiple honorblades.  Surgebinding.  Madness.  

 

If Nalan comes for Adolin's father, I suspect there will be far too much happening for us to see a direct comparison of Adolin and Nalan's dueling skills.  They may match blades, but it won't be just them.

 

I suspect Nale will head for Urithiru in the near future: many proto-radiants guilty of crimes there. I'd love to the see the big showdown between Shaman, Kohlins and Skybreakers.

 

If Nalan comes for Dalinar, Adolin will rush to defend his father, that's a fact, but he won't be able to do much. It won't be a duel as Adolin would be disarmed within a few minutes, unless Nale pulls a Demandred out of him and insist on beating Adolin using his own skill only. Why would he do that though, I wonder.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

While I won't dig for the exact quote, somewhere before we were discussing here the matter of Kaladin and Roshone (about the forgiveness). I was just taking a shower and I had this wild theory about that... But I'll admit it's not exactly a real theory since there is no evidence, it's just something I'd like to see.

 

Earlier I said that I have troubles imagining Kal simply forgiving Roshone everything he did against his family. That may be because I have seen Roshone only as a mean and malicious man with little to no depth in this regard. Somebody (maxal I think, but I may be mistaken) pointed out that we know nothing of Roshone and his motives and maybe in Stones Unhallowed we will see a different side of him. I accepted that and came to the conclusion that Kaladin should forgive Roshone but in my opinion Roshone must first prove not to be just a mean and malicious man. I've forgotten about that for a while but for some reason it came back to me today, leading me to thinking up the following scenario.

 

Before I get to my idea I'd like to explain one more thing. When Teft was speaking of the Envisagers he said that there may be others that he is unaware of. Now, why would he be unaware of them? Propably because their groups weren't in touch. And why two groups in the same organisation may not be in touch? Because they disagree on something important. At least that's what I think on the matter. So I imagine that there are other groups of Envisagers that have a different way of doing things than the group Teft was a part of.

 

Now, for the idea I had. I thought that Roshone may be an Envisager, only one from the other group. Unlike Teft's group they don't put themselves into danger to awaken Radiant powers. They know more on the matter - they know that to become a Radiant a person must be broken. So what could they do? They look for the people who seem to have a potential to be Radiants (at least to the Envisagers - they know the attributes of the orders so they may seek people who can be strongly associated to the attributes of a certain order) and try to put them in a situation where they could be broken. But of course the Envisagers don't know that the choice belongs to the spren and they may have a wrong or incomplete understanding of the attributes. So if Roshone is one of such, he could have considered Lirin a potential Edgedancer (Loving and Healing) and do his best to break him. Hence everything he did against their family (including sending away Tien). He did a wrong thing but he believed it to be for the greater good. Now, Kaladin comes back and is forced to fight Voidbringers. Roshone finds out that he is a Radiant. Then he reveals his identity as an Envisager to Kal, who is very surprised but in the end understands what caused Roshone to do the things he did. And he can forgive.

 

I know very well that this idea has so many holes that it can be used as a strainer. But I still think it's cool

[Guest]

Gee.... You want to turn Roshone into an actual good guy? I'll give you credit for imagination

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Gee.... You want to turn Roshone into an actual good guy? I'll give you credit for imagination

 

No, I don't want to turn him into a good guy. The way I imagined it he is not just a mean, malicious bastard, he's a mean, malicious bastard with a motivation. The characters that are evil/mean for the sake of being evil/mean are boring. It's much more fun to have an evil/mean character who thinks he's doing the right thing, at least in his own view.

 

I don't try to explain the matter of the silversmiths. That was purely Roshone's selfishness. He wanted an obstacle out of the way so he had it out of the way. But I would find that amusing if Roshone didn't just get revenge on Lirin for being unable to save Rillir but did this and made himself believe he did it for the greater purpose to justify his actions. He wanted to get back at the surgeon but he found a way to make himself the good guy because of that (at least in his eyes).

 

The thing is, I don't like the antagonists being the bad guys just for the sake of being bad guys. I like to see them having motivations that make them the good guys in their eyes (valid ones, not just "if I ruled the world there would be peace"). I can't currently think of a good example of what I mean (or I can think of one but it's from one anime so I'm not sure if I should post it... ). In short: it's more interesting when the characters are more grey than black or white.

 

 

As for my imagination - nothing is impossible there

 

And before I had another theory concerning the Envisagers and Kaladin's past. And this Roshone one doesn't completely rule it out. But all of my theories are rather wild ones :ph34r:

[Guest]

The thing is, I don't like the antagonists being the bad guys just for the sake of being bad guys. I like to see them having motivations that make them the good guys in their eyes (valid ones, not just "if I ruled the world there would be peace"). I can't currently think of a good example of what I mean (or I can think of one but it's from one anime so I'm not sure if I should post it... ). In short: it's more interesting when the characters are more grey than black or white.

 

Can't agree more with you there. I prefer worlds described as a mixture of good and bad as opposed to pure good and pure evil as they tend to be unrealistic. I do think hearing Roshone's side of the story would help us see him as a human, a misguided and selfish one, but as human nonetheless who thought he was in his right to behave the way he did.

 

 

And before I had another theory concerning the Envisagers and Kaladin's past. And this Roshone one doesn't completely rule it out. But all of my theories are rather wild ones :ph34r:

 

I am almost afraid to ask...........

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I am almost afraid to ask...........

 

This one is not that bad... Just one with little to no evidence at all which is in fact a byproduct of my exuberant imagination

 

Before I started to ponder over Roshone and what possible motiavtionhe could have I was thinking mostly of Kaladin and his family, how will their reunion look like and what it may lead to.

 

It's not a spoiler at all. I'm just putting my theory inside so if somebody is afraid to read it it can be easily skipped without even looking at it

I'm not sure where but it was hinted somewhere that Kal's mother, Hesina, is more than she seems. So I started to think up possible scenarios, some even more outrageous then the others. But among all of those ideas I ended up with three I liked most. I won't even dare to reveal one of them But the one I mentioned above is not as bad (I think...).

 

Anyway, I already mentioned my thoughts on Envisagers (the different groups and everything). So I thought there would be at least one group of Envisagers who knew the attributes associated with the orders of KR (but of course they would interpret them too literally, like Lightweavers being honest would rule out Shallan's lies or something like that). If they knew the attributes they would propably think that to become a Radiant one would have to live by them so they would force themselves to live by the attributes of a choosen orders or look for people who seem to do so and coax them into following the attributes even more. No matter the rest of my theory, that point I think is rather believable.

 

For my idea itself: I imagined Hesina being one of those. When she first met Lirin she thought him to be a possible Edgedancer (we know that he's not a valid possiblity to be one, but as I said the Envisagers didn't know all the facts and may have interpreted some of them incorrectly) so she tried to get closer to him and convince him to live by the attributes. At first it was only kind of a mission for her, but the better she knew him the more she was falling in love. So in the end her initial purpose was set aside for her personal feelings. We do know that Hesina's family wasn't too fond of Lirin (or at least he perceived it so). Now, assuming my theory, it would be propably because he refused to believe in what they did (he would be unaware of the Envisagers as a secret society but he would simply disagree with the way they gloryfied the Radiants). But at this point it didn't matter to Hesina so she married Lirin and left with him to Hearthstone. But she didn't forget the teachings of the Envisagers so she would try to raise her sons according to the attributes of one order or another.

 

And from that it gives me a wide variety of possible outcomes when she finds out her son did become a Radiant...

 

And yes, I'm completely aware of all the holes in this theory, it's more of an idea on what I'd like to see than a real theory.

[Guest]

This one is not that bad... Just one with little to no evidence at all which is in fact a byproduct of my exuberant imagination

 

Before I started to ponder over Roshone and what possible motiavtionhe could have I was thinking mostly of Kaladin and his family, how will their reunion look like and what it may lead to.

 

It's not a spoiler at all. I'm just putting my theory inside so if somebody is afraid to read it it can be easily skipped without even looking at it

I'm not sure where but it was hinted somewhere that Kal's mother, Hesina, is more than she seems. So I started to think up possible scenarios, some even more outrageous then the others. But among all of those ideas I ended up with three I liked most. I won't even dare to reveal one of them But the one I mentioned above is not as bad (I think...).

 

Anyway, I already mentioned my thoughts on Envisagers (the different groups and everything). So I thought there would be at least one group of Envisagers who knew the attributes associated with the orders of KR (but of course they would interpret them too literally, like Lightweavers being honest would rule out Shallan's lies or something like that). If they knew the attributes they would propably think that to become a Radiant one would have to live by them so they would force themselves to live by the attributes of a choosen orders or look for people who seem to do so and coax them into following the attributes even more. No matter the rest of my theory, that point I think is rather believable.

 

For my idea itself: I imagined Hesina being one of those. When she first met Lirin she thought him to be a possible Edgedancer (we know that he's not a valid possiblity to be one, but as I said the Envisagers didn't know all the facts and may have interpreted some of them incorrectly) so she tried to get closer to him and convince him to live by the attributes. At first it was only kind of a mission for her, but the better she knew him the more she was falling in love. So in the end her initial purpose was set aside for her personal feelings. We do know that Hesina's family wasn't too fond of Lirin (or at least he perceived it so). Now, assuming my theory, it would be propably because he refused to believe in what they did (he would be unaware of the Envisagers as a secret society but he would simply disagree with the way they gloryfied the Radiants). But at this point it didn't matter to Hesina so she married Lirin and left with him to Hearthstone. But she didn't forget the teachings of the Envisagers so she would try to raise her sons according to the attributes of one order or another.

 

And from that it gives me a wide variety of possible outcomes when she finds out her son did become a Radiant...

 

And yes, I'm completely aware of all the holes in this theory, it's more of an idea on what I'd like to see than a real theory.

 

It is not bad...... It has been speculated that there is more to Hesina then we know... Lirin also dropped his studies (from what I recall, so I could be wrong) for a reason. He clearly failed at his dream to be trained in Karbranth and has transposed it on his son. I have always wondered what happened. I get the feeling we may find out in book 3.

 

However, the Envisagers must know of the attributes as they had access to Words of Radiance. Teft claimed his mother read that book. They would therefore know about the orders and their characteristics.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

However, the Envisagers must know of the attributes as they had access to Words of Radiance. Teft claimed his mother read that book. They would therefore know about the orders and their characteristics.

 

I tend to think that they know but they misinterpret them...

[lol_king he/him]

About Nalan vs Adolin, i don't think Adolin stands a chance. Zahel/vasher is not known as the best swordsman in warbreaker, and barely does any real swordfighting, and just throws nightblood around. But he's pretty old and experienced now, and so he beats the crap out of Kaladin who's also known as very skilled without magic. So with their millennia of experience i doubt Adolin would stand a chance against any of the Heralds, much less Nalan who's been active all this time and is head of a fighting order. For example, Taln even in his crazy state catches a blow dart out of air just on his reflexes.

Edited November 8, 2014 by lol_king

[gjustice99 she/her]

Roshone:

 

After watching Kaladin's long struggle to trust lighteyes, I'm ready to see him forgive the heck out of somebody.  

I have a different theory about this. I feel like Kaladin is going to assert power over Roshone (because he is in Dalinar's guard that probably makes him of higher rank than a low lighteyes like Roshone) and chew him out for forcing his brother into the army, and his ultimate death.

[dvoraen]

Kaladin

- Will be pressed towards the Fourth Ideal of the Windrunners after overcoming the trauma of discovering his parents are dead, but Roshone is alive.  The Fourth Ideal will be something along the lines of 'Protecting no matter the cost to myself'; sincerity and devotion to the job, in other words.

- Should he end up in Kholinar, he'll come to terms with the lighteyes vs. darkeyes rift, if not outright strive to mend it by who he is, and it's that understanding of being a beacon for others that will result in the Fifth Ideal.

- Syl will have the best snarky lines in the book, but will also drop a nuclear bomb on us about the Recreance, because she'll remember what happened then.  Kaladin will end up learning the "secret that broke the Knights Radiant" and take a long time coming to terms about it.

 

Shallan

- Her primary focus will be research on the records in Urithiru, with Pattern offering some very frank commentary once he gets his Cryptic hands/lines on Navani's translations of Dalinar's visions.  (Pattern will basically be the Dawnchant dictionary; Shallan will be the interpretation of it.)

- Her Fourth Truth will be admitting to herself that her Mother was not the best of people, with the recollection being when her Mother first found out about the Surgebinding and the likely disturbing if not abusive aftermath of it.  (This is implied partly by Mraize, whose words I thought were saying Shallan's mother was one of the Ghostbloods.)  This will also give her the ability to provide sounds to Illusions, as well as improve her Soulcasting affinity for Shadesmar beads to improve her control over them.

- I don't think Shallan will get to her final Truth, but I suspect it will be related to whatever event in her childhood that caused her to attract Pattern in the first place; she suppressed something a long time ago, even before manifesting Lightweaving.

- Pattern will continue to find human taboos fascinating, and be very outspoken and clinical about them in ways that may horrify us before we start cracking up.

 

Jasnah

- I can has interludes of Jasnah getting irritated at Hoid and discovering first hand how serious the enemy is?  (I totally want to see Jasnah find out firsthand that the Unmade are NOT a creation of folklore, as the Way of Kings epigraph said.)

- Should Jasnah reach Urithiru, she will send a collective shock through Vorin Roshar, who may well start regarding her akin to the Heralds.  In short, I'm predicting Jasnah will unwillingly become an object of worship, for "dying and returning from death."

 

Dalinar

- He's going to be on Nale's Naughty List, and this will be a significant altercation that will also send a collective shock through Vorin Roshar (that the nine Heralds that tried to forswear the Oathpact basically lied to everyone, and are doing little to aid humanity and save them from themselves).  This fight/altercation will lead to the Third Ideal, as well as give us some serious insight into what a Bondsmith can do, and why they're so rare.

- The Stormfather will be a very reluctant Q&A guy, which Brandon will use for relentless teasing via the Stormfather's accusations against humanity being untrustworthy.

 

Eshonai

- Interludes.  She'll become conscious in the chasms (perhaps found by those who abandoned Narak without assuming stormform), and her fight with Adolin will have jarred her physically and mentally (concussion?) enough to fight off the Voidspren and/or Unmade that is controlling her.  This will be the 'bridge' suggested by the Diagram, when she brings Voidbinding under her direct control, yet regains and retains her identity despite the cost of drawing the eyes of the Unmade to her, who she then has to flee.

 

Renarin

"I'm standing over the body of a brother. Is that his blood or mine?  What have we done?"

- The above epigraph will involve him somehow.  I can't decide how, yet.

Edited November 23, 2014 by dvoraen

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Kaladin

- Will be pressed towards the Fourth Ideal of the Windrunners after overcoming the trauma of discovering his parents are dead, but Roshone is alive.  The Fourth Ideal will be something along the lines of 'Protecting no matter the cost to myself'; sincerity and devotion to the job, in other words.

- Should he end up in Kholinar, he'll come to terms with the lighteyes vs. darkeyes rift, if not outright strive to mend it by who he is, and it's that understanding of being a beacon for others that will result in the Fifth Ideal.

- Syl will have the best snarky lines in the book, but will also drop a nuclear bomb on us about the Recreance, because she'll remember what happened then.  Kaladin will end up learning the "secret that broke the Knights Radiant" and take a long time coming to terms about it.

 

Don't we have a WoB that his parents are alive? I'm pretty sure there was one but I can't find it right now But I like your other ideas, especially teh one about Syl Personally I see Kaladin in Kholinar dealing with the riots... Besides I think that both 4th and 5th Ideals of Windrunners will be connected to leading (as there were already two about protecting), but your idea is actually very good

 

 

Shallan

- Her primary focus will be research on the records in Urithiru, with Pattern offering some very frank commentary once he gets his Cryptic hands/lines on Navani's translations of Dalinar's visions.  (Pattern will basically be the Dawnchant dictionary; Shallan will be the interpretation of it.)

- Her Fourth Truth will be admitting to herself that her Mother was not the best of people, with the recollection being when her Mother first found out about the Surgebinding and the likely disturbing if not abusive aftermath of it.  (This is implied partly by Mraize, whose words I thought were saying Shallan's mother was one of the Ghostbloods.)  This will also give her the ability to provide sounds to Illusions, as well as improve her Soulcasting affinity for Shadesmar beads to improve her control over them.

- I don't think Shallan will get to her final Truth, but I suspect it will be related to whatever event in her childhood that caused her to attract Pattern in the first place; she suppressed something a long time ago, even before manifesting Lightweaving.

- Pattern will continue to find human taboos fascinating, and be very outspoken and clinical about them in ways that may horrify us before we start cracking up.

 

I thought Shallan spoke her fourth Truth already - there was a WoB that she's a step above Kaladin, so since he is on 3rd Ideal she must be on 4th Truth. But as for the 5th one I agree that it will be propably connected to whatever attracted Pattern in the first place. I can't remember any insinuation that Shallan's mother was a part of Ghostbloods, can you tell me exactly where you found it? As for the Pattern part - it would be hilarious, I hope we see some more about it.

 

 

Jasnah

- I can has interludes of Jasnah getting irritated at Hoid and discovering first hand how serious the enemy is?  (I totally want to see Jasnah find out firsthand that the Unmade are NOT a creation of folklore, as the Way of Kings epigraph said.)

- Should Jasnah reach Urithiru, she will send a collective shock through Vorin Roshar, who may well start regarding her akin to the Heralds.  In short, I'm predicting Jasnah will unwillingly become an object of worship, for "dying and returning from death."

 

Jasnah and Hoid bumping into the Unmade? That would be really cool I don't really see Vorins worshipping Jasnah - I think they'd rather come to the conclusion that she very cleverly feigned her death (and maybe consider Shallan less believable because she lied about Jasnah's death, I don't know).

 

 

Dalinar

- He's going to be on Nale's Naughty List, and this will be a significant altercation that will also send a collective shock through Vorin Roshar (that the nine Heralds that tried to forswear the Oathpact basically lied to everyone, and are doing little to aid humanity and save them from themselves).  This fight/altercation will lead to the Third Ideal, as well as give us some serious insight into what a Bondsmith can do, and why they're so rare.

- The Stormfather will be a very reluctant Q&A guy, which Brandon will use for relentless teasing via the Stormfather's accusations against humanity being untrustworthy.

 

Nale will come to kill Dalinar (he likes to kill off Surgebinders and he will find some justification in the biography of Blackthorn) but will be stopped (maybe by Kaladin if he comes back on time - I suspect Dalinar would have troubles with fighting off a Herald with Shardblade having none himself, unless Bondsmith's powers are that much awesome). Though we know why Bondsmiths are rare - they bond only with very special, one-of-a-kind spren like Stormfather. As for the rest - that's actually very valid possibilities.

 

 

Eshonai

- Interludes.  She'll become conscious in the chasms (perhaps found by those who abandoned Narak without assuming stormform), and her fight with Adolin will have jarred her physically and mentally (concussion?) enough to fight off the Voidspren and/or Unmade that is controlling her.  This will be the 'bridge' suggested by the Diagram, when she brings Voidbinding under her direct control, yet regains and retains her identity despite the cost of drawing the eyes of the Unmade to her, who she then has to flee.

 

Personally I'd think that if Eshonai manages to free herself she will lead the Listeners who never took stormform and Venli would lead the Voidbringers. If Eshonai tries to control Voidbringers while not being brainwashed she's bound to try to do some good and therefore someone else (propably Venli) will realize that Eshonai is not truly one of them and therefore try to kill her.

 

 

Renarin

"I'm standing over the body of a brother. Is that his blood or mine?  What have we done?"

- The above epigraph will involve him somehow.  I can't decide how, yet.

 

Oh my, hopefully you are wrong. I can only imagine very bad and very tragic ways on how you could be right with this and I really don't want them to happen

[dvoraen]

RE: Mraize.  He stated, in the last meeting Shallan has with him, that her family has a "long history" of being involved in these events.  Six years seems a relatively short span of time, to me, so since Lin Davar joined the Ghostbloods not too many years back, I took this to mean that Shallan's mother was the member who was active.  I don't think Helaran was involved, else why not just flat out say to Shallan that her brother had been one of them too?

[Guest]

Kaladin

- Will be pressed towards the Fourth Ideal of the Windrunners after overcoming the trauma of discovering his parents are dead, but Roshone is alive.  The Fourth Ideal will be something along the lines of 'Protecting no matter the cost to myself'; sincerity and devotion to the job, in other words.

- Should he end up in Kholinar, he'll come to terms with the lighteyes vs. darkeyes rift, if not outright strive to mend it by who he is, and it's that understanding of being a beacon for others that will result in the Fifth Ideal.

- Syl will have the best snarky lines in the book, but will also drop a nuclear bomb on us about the Recreance, because she'll remember what happened then.  Kaladin will end up learning the "secret that broke the Knights Radiant" and take a long time coming to terms about it.

 

His parents are not dead: we have a WoB on it. I think Kaladin will reconciled himself with his parents and will over throw Roshone's leadership of his small village. I think Kaladin's fourth oath will have to do with leadership. Protecting no matter the cost to myself does not sound like a Windrunner oaths, but more like a Stonewards.

 

He'll end up entangled in the riots in Kohlinar. Again, his leadership will shine. I would love to bring his story plot back in Urithiru so he could be involved in the denouement around Adolin, but I am unsure how. Taking care of both Heartstone and Kohlinar may take time.

 

I am unsure if Kaladin will the one to uncover the truth that broke the Radiants. I was thinking Jasnah may be that person. However, I believe Syl's memories will soon become a gold mine of information concerning the other orders, the ones we have not heard of, yet. Since I adore the bromance, I would love for Syl to figure out Adolin's specific behavior regarding rights and wrongs is akin to one of the orders. If he is to revive his Blade, he is going to need help and I hope Kal and Syl will be the ones to provide such help.

 

 

Shallan

- Her primary focus will be research on the records in Urithiru, with Pattern offering some very frank commentary once he gets his Cryptic hands/lines on Navani's translations of Dalinar's visions.  (Pattern will basically be the Dawnchant dictionary; Shallan will be the interpretation of it.)

- Her Fourth Truth will be admitting to herself that her Mother was not the best of people, with the recollection being when her Mother first found out about the Surgebinding and the likely disturbing if not abusive aftermath of it.  (This is implied partly by Mraize, whose words I thought were saying Shallan's mother was one of the Ghostbloods.)  This will also give her the ability to provide sounds to Illusions, as well as improve her Soulcasting affinity for Shadesmar beads to improve her control over them.

- I don't think Shallan will get to her final Truth, but I suspect it will be related to whatever event in her childhood that caused her to attract Pattern in the first place; she suppressed something a long time ago, even before manifesting Lightweaving.

- Pattern will continue to find human taboos fascinating, and be very outspoken and clinical about them in ways that may horrify us before we start cracking up.

 

Shallan already spoke he fourth truth. I think the fifth truth may have to do with being truthful towards what she wants as opposed to have everything being chosen for her.

 

I think she will find the Ghostblood more to her liking then expected. She will end up in a position where both life collides and she may have to chose one side.

 

She will chase Adolin away in a time of need. Her relationship with him will end because of it. Navani will keep on playing the role of a surrogate mother, even after the betrothal gets cancelled. She will not blame Shallan for this as she knows her nephew and will assume he caused it.

 

Shallan will discover something important.

 

 

Jasnah

- I can has interludes of Jasnah getting irritated at Hoid and discovering first hand how serious the enemy is?  (I totally want to see Jasnah find out firsthand that the Unmade are NOT a creation of folklore, as the Way of Kings epigraph said.)

- Should Jasnah reach Urithiru, she will send a collective shock through Vorin Roshar, who may well start regarding her akin to the Heralds.  In short, I'm predicting Jasnah will unwillingly become an object of worship, for "dying and returning from death."

 

I think Jasnah may end up in Kohlinar first and meet up with Kaladin. Together, they will re-open the Kohlinar's oathgate.

 

 

Dalinar

- He's going to be on Nale's Naughty List, and this will be a significant altercation that will also send a collective shock through Vorin Roshar (that the nine Heralds that tried to forswear the Oathpact basically lied to everyone, and are doing little to aid humanity and save them from themselves).  This fight/altercation will lead to the Third Ideal, as well as give us some serious insight into what a Bondsmith can do, and why they're so rare.

- The Stormfather will be a very reluctant Q&A guy, which Brandon will use for relentless teasing via the Stormfather's accusations against humanity being untrustworthy.

 

There is a strong chance Nale may go after him and Shallan. However, I think Dalinar's greatest struggle will be to figure out how to unite them all while avoiding breaking down his family. His third oath will have to do with his son. He will learn the harsh way is not always best and he should guide the "lost ones" towards the right path, not overtly punish them for mistakes they are openly repenting for. This will allow him to forgive Adolin and bring his son back into the family after much struggle.

 

 

Eshonai

- Interludes.  She'll become conscious in the chasms (perhaps found by those who abandoned Narak without assuming stormform), and her fight with Adolin will have jarred her physically and mentally (concussion?) enough to fight off the Voidspren and/or Unmade that is controlling her.  This will be the 'bridge' suggested by the Diagram, when she brings Voidbinding under her direct control, yet regains and retains her identity despite the cost of drawing the eyes of the Unmade to her, who she then has to flee.

 

The Stormform will have protected her in her fall, but it won't provide her with means to escape the chasm. She will meet with the rebel Parshendi and will start the process of getting rid of her host. She will learn to build by trying to reconstruct what is left of her people.

 

 

Renarin

"I'm standing over the body of a brother. Is that his blood or mine?  What have we done?"

- The above epigraph will involve him somehow.  I can't decide how, yet.

 

I should really be paying more attention to those epigraphs... If this one has not come to past, then it may relate to Renarin standing over Adolin's dead (or nearly dead) body after he has given his life to protect the father who has openly rejected him.

 

I have often predicted Renarin will save his brother's life using Progression, so that may be it. In any case, I think Renarin, Dalinar and Shallan will inadvertently be the ones to shove Adolin over the edge. Renarin will be the first one to realize their mistakes and will go to his brother's side, trying to repair the damage down. He will blame himself for failing to be there for his brother on the one time he actually needed someone to lean onto.

 

I think Elhokar will fall pray to Odium and the Kohlin's family will go through many turmoils.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

RE: Mraize.  He stated, in the last meeting Shallan has with him, that her family has a "long history" of being involved in these events.  Six years seems a relatively short span of time, to me, so since Lin Davar joined the Ghostbloods not too many years back, I took this to mean that Shallan's mother was the member who was active.  I don't think Helaran was involved, else why not just flat out say to Shallan that her brother had been one of them too?

 

Ok, I guess you are right. Personally I don't see Shallan's mother as a member of Ghostbloods (the way she tried to kill Shallan for being a Surgebinder doesn't seem very consistent with Ghostbloods to me), but I agree we can't rule out that possibility. For Helaran the most likely allegiance are the Skybreakers I think.

 

 

His parents are not dead: we have a WoB on it. I think Kaladin will reconciled himself with his parents and will over throw Roshone's leadership of his small village. I think Kaladin's fourth oath will have to do with leadership. Protecting no matter the cost to myself does not sound like a Windrunner oaths, but more like a Stonewards.

 

He'll end up entangled in the riots in Kohlinar. Again, his leadership will shine. I would love to bring his story plot back in Urithiru so he could be involved in the denouement around Adolin, but I am unsure how. Taking care of both Heartstone and Kohlinar may take time.

 

I am unsure if Kaladin will the one to uncover the truth that broke the Radiants. I was thinking Jasnah may be that person. However, I believe Syl's memories will soon become a gold mine of information concerning the other orders, the ones we have not heard of, yet. Since I adore the bromance, I would love for Syl to figure out Adolin's specific behavior regarding rights and wrongs is akin to one of the orders. If he is to revive his Blade, he is going to need help and I hope Kal and Syl will be the ones to provide such help.

 

Yup, I mostly agree here. Though I think that Kaladin reconciling with his parents will not be easy, not at all in fact. I mean, Hesina is very likely to simply hug her son and be too happy to see him to mind anything but while Lirin will propably be happy to have his son back, sonner or later they're bound to argue about Kal willingly being a soldier And if Hesina wasn't present at the time (having gone back to her family in Kharbranth or something) then patching the rift between Kaladin and Lirin may seem nigh impossible

 

I actually like the idea that Kal will try to round up some of the villagers to help him with something and at first nobody would be willing to do it but then some eager youths will decide to go with him. They will work hard and prove that Kaladin is leading them to do some good which will convince some more people to join. Roshone will be of course very much against it and maybe he will even forbid others from helping Kal but the villagers will decide that they'd rather follow Kaladin's lead then Roshone's. And all that without showing off Syl-blade or anything like this. The spoiler below is connected to the reading from book 3, it's just better explanation of what I mean.

 

The city was hit by the Everstorm, right? We know that whoever survived is propably hiding in the mansion. I imagine Kal trying to round up people to help him go into the ruins of the village to look for wounded but still alive people to help them and to collect resources, things that aren't completely destroyed and may prove useful, or maybe even what's left of food. He will actually manage to save a few people (maybe some of the boys who mocked him in the past) and later they and their families will be quickest to support him further.

 

As for Kaladin's meeting with his parents... I expect Lirin taking care of the wounded in the mansion (there's a big chance he's become a city drunk, but he's still the surgeon who cares about others' lives so he will help) and as soon as Kaladin gets there (as in to the same room as Lirin is) he will simply join his father in helping people. No words, no anything just those two working together. And after they're done a teary hug At least I have such mental image of their meeting. Maybe with additional situation when Lirin decides that somebody is beyond help but Kaladin stubbornly decides to try anyway... and he does manage to do it. I'd say that maybe with using adhesion to stick the wound together before it can be properly sewn so the patient won't die of blood loss (that's the best use for adhesion I can think of, especially in Kaladin's hands), but that would make his eyes go blue and I hope his won't happen - he should be able to rile up people from Hearthstone to him without being considered a lighteye.

 

Besides I hope that Kaladin will say two Ideals in the next book so he could be finally a full Radiant.

 

 

Shallan already spoke he fourth truth. I think the fifth truth may have to do with being truthful towards what she wants as opposed to have everything being chosen for her.

 

I think she will find the Ghostblood more to her liking then expected. She will end up in a position where both life collides and she may have to chose one side.

 

She will chase Adolin away in a time of need. Her relationship with him will end because of it. Navani will keep on playing the role of a surrogate mother, even after the betrothal gets cancelled. She will not blame Shallan for this as she knows her nephew and will assume he caused it.

 

Shallan will discover something important.

 

But lately she does what she wants and doesn't let anyone choose for her... Maybe I misunderstood you but that doesn't make too much sense to me I think that 5th truth will be either whatever really attracted Pattern long ago or something about her true feelings (coughAdolincough)...

 

Oh, she will grow very supporting towards Ghostbloods - they give her true freedom (that's how she may see it since she sees somebody caring for her as trying to oppress her) and unlike the Kholins or anyone else they saved her brothers. Besides right now she enjoys everything that brings her excitement (understandable after being locked up for most of her life) and working with Ghostbloods is exactly her type of exciting/thrilling.

 

Adolin will need emotional support but Shallan will be too focused on her research/Ghostbloods to see it. She will snap at him for interrupting her in something very important (at least in her eyes). He will feel that he means nothing to her and it will add to everything else being against him. Of course when the relationship is broken off everyone is going to assume that it was Adolin's fault as always. Navani will take Shallan's side. Those two will get closer in the book 3 because they'll propably do some research together (on Voidbringers, Radiants, how-to-make-a-Shardplate and so on).

 

And please, let it not be so that Shallan is always the brilliant scholar who discovers all the important things and thanks to that a tragedy is avoided (or at least minimalised). If she discovers something important I'd have her disregard it, thinking it of no concern so later it could bite her (very hard). I really hope she will make some big mistake or seriously screw something up finally... :ph34r:

 

 

I think Jasnah may end up in Kohlinar first and meet up with Kaladin. Together, they will re-open the Kohlinar's oathgate.

 

There is a strong chance Nale may go after him and Shallan. However, I think Dalinar's greatest struggle will be to figure out how to unite them all while avoiding breaking down his family. His third oath will have to do with his son. He will learn the harsh way is not always best and he should guide the "lost ones" towards the right path, not overtly punish them for mistakes they are openly repenting for. This will allow him to forgive Adolin and bring his son back into the family after much struggle.

 

But if they opened the oathgate wouldn't the whole city (or at least the palace) end up in Urithiru? After all the whole plateau is being teleported

 

Jasnah meeting Kaladin is an interesting idea, I never thought of it. That could work out nicely (and maybe we would see some more of Ivory too - I wish to see Syl interacting with other Nahel spren)

 

I think that by the end of 3rd book Adolin will be casted out from the family and however Dalinar is going to bring him back we will see in book 4 or even 5. I guess one of Dalinar's ideals could be connected to it, just not necessarily the 3rd one. Maybe in the 3rd book Dalinar will have to learn that not everyone can be united, especially they shouldn't be against their own will... That's how I think it will be

 

 

I should really be paying more attention to those epigraphs... If this one has not come to past, then it may relate to Renarin standing over Adolin's dead (or nearly dead) body after he has given his life to protect the father who has openly rejected him.

 

I have often predicted Renarin will save his brother's life using Progression, so that may be it. In any case, I think Renarin, Dalinar and Shallan will inadvertently be the ones to shove Adolin over the edge. Renarin will be the first one to realize their mistakes and will go to his brother's side, trying to repair the damage down. He will blame himself for failing to be there for his brother on the one time he actually needed someone to lean onto.

 

I think Elhokar will fall pray to Odium and the Kohlin's family will go through many turmoils.

 

The epigraph makes it sound like they screwed up big time, both... And one of them ended up dead/near dead Besides I get a scary feeling that it could be something about Renarin (and his visions) accidentially causing Adolin's death. Or something like in this fanfic: https://archiveofourown.org/works/1877880 . It's of course not mine (all credit goes to the author), but I've read it some time ago and I find it disturbingly possible :ph34r: Especially that ever since I finished WoR I imagined Adolin's future in a similar way (apart from one part that I really hope won't happen but it seems to me as close to the forementioned epigraph)

 

As for Elhokar - I can see him accidentially joining the bad guys while still thinking himself to be good and in right I don't perceive him a a vile person, he's just incompetent and stubborn. As of Kholins in general - they will have ONLY problems in the near future.

[Guest]

Yup, I mostly agree here. Though I think that Kaladin reconciling with his parents will not be easy, not at all in fact. I mean, Hesina is very likely to simply hug her son and be too happy to see him to mind anything but while Lirin will propably be happy to have his son back, sonner or later they're bound to argue about Kal willingly being a soldier And if Hesina wasn't present at the time (having gone back to her family in Kharbranth or something) then patching the rift between Kaladin and Lirin may seem nigh impossible

 

Actually, I think Lirin will be very pleased to have his son back. Whatever quarrel they may have had will be forgotten in the joy to finally have one of his sons back. Lirin and Hesina's situation will have changed. Whereas Roshone still is a pain and unjust towards them, the villagers warmed up to them. Seeing them lose both of their sons and learning the death on the younger one would have cause great sorrow. People will feel sorry for Lirin and will start to actively support them by giving them food and supplies.

 

One of my favorite Lirin and Hesina pet theory is that had a third child following the departure of their sons. A girl who will grow up to live Lirin's dream of having one of his children following his footsteps.

 

If not, I think Kaladin will come to understand and embrace what Lirin has been trying to teach him all these years ago: he cannot kill to protect. This was the missing piece. Kaladin will thus do his storming best to avoid killing, at all cost. He'll still be a badass, but not a killing one.

 

 

I actually like the idea that Kal will try to round up some of the villagers to help him with something and at first nobody would be willing to do it but then some eager youths will decide to go with him. They will work hard and prove that Kaladin is leading them to do some good which will convince some more people to join. Roshone will be of course very much against it and maybe he will even forbid others from helping Kal but the villagers will decide that they'd rather follow Kaladin's lead then Roshone's. And all that without showing off Syl-blade or anything like this. The spoiler below is connected to the reading from book 3, it's just better explanation of what I mean.

 

I think Kaladin will win the villagers over the same way he won the bridgemen: by putting up a good effort and being the spotless example. He'll start the work and the others will feel compel to join him. His influence will increase and eventually, he'll take the lead.

 

 

Besides I hope that Kaladin will say two Ideals in the next book so he could be finally a full Radiant.

 

Me too.

 

 

But lately she does what she wants and doesn't let anyone choose for her... Maybe I misunderstood you but that doesn't make too much sense to me I think that 5th truth will be either whatever really attracted Pattern long ago or something about her true feelings (coughAdolincough)...

 

Oh, she will grow very supporting towards Ghostbloods - they give her true freedom (that's how she may see it since she sees somebody caring for her as trying to oppress her) and unlike the Kholins or anyone else they saved her brothers. Besides right now she enjoys everything that brings her excitement (understandable after being locked up for most of her life) and working with Ghostbloods is exactly her type of exciting/thrilling.

 

Adolin will need emotional support but Shallan will be too focused on her research/Ghostbloods to see it. She will snap at him for interrupting her in something very important (at least in her eyes). He will feel that he means nothing to her and it will add to everything else being against him. Of course when the relationship is broken off everyone is going to assume that it was Adolin's fault as always. Navani will take Shallan's side. Those two will get closer in the book 3 because they'll propably do some research together (on Voidbringers, Radiants, how-to-make-a-Shardplate and so on).

 

And please, let it not be so that Shallan is always the brilliant scholar who discovers all the important things and thanks to that a tragedy is avoided (or at least minimalised). If she discovers something important I'd have her disregard it, thinking it of no concern so later it could bite her (very hard). I really hope she will make some big mistake or seriously screw something up finally... :ph34r:

 

She decides to become Jasnah wards to save her family. She finds herself in a position she likes, but she jeopardizes it to save her family. To save her family, she accepts being betrothed to Adolin Kohlin, which turns out being a surprise as he actually is a nice person. She joins the Ghostblood to protect her family and learn about Jasnah's murder.

 

Bottom line is everything she does is for an end game: she rarely does something because she wants to. Marrying Adolin makes sense, but does she want it? To grow into a Radiant, I think she'll have to deal with this. So yeah, the last truth could be about her feelings towards Adolin.

 

Yeah, I see her pushing Adolin away and starting to behave just like every other girl he ever dated: being more concerned about her life than his, not carrying for him and what he is going through. She will be very unsupportive and someone will throw it back to her face. Not Navani, nor Dalinar, but Renarin, perhaps? Once he figures out the truth... Adolin will do what he always does when he feels his girlfriends are growing distant: he'll break it up and give up, but this time, it'll hurt. Really bad. A first heart break never is easy.

 

Alright. No more Shallan being brillant, but some Shallan messing up? I think I have written this at some point... It makes sense. She has to learn she is not all knowledgeable. She can make mistake and Adolin will be one huge mistake.

 

 

But if they opened the oathgate wouldn't the whole city (or at least the palace) end up in Urithiru? After all the whole plateau is being teleported

 

Jasnah meeting Kaladin is an interesting idea, I never thought of it. That could work out nicely (and maybe we would see some more of Ivory too - I wish to see Syl interacting with other Nahel spren)

 

I do not remember how the oathgate to Kohlinar is described... Does it really enclose the entire palace? Whether it does or not, I do think our heroes will re-open this oathgate in the next book.

 

Bringing Jasnah into Kohlinar would give a bigger spotlight as her plot would evolve with Kaladin's. It will also bring some interesting character interaction between these two. So it is a win-win.

 

 

I think that by the end of 3rd book Adolin will be casted out from the family and however Dalinar is going to bring him back we will see in book 4 or even 5. I guess one of Dalinar's ideals could be connected to it, just not necessarily the 3rd one. Maybe in the 3rd book Dalinar will have to learn that not everyone can be united, especially they shouldn't be against their own will... That's how I think it will be

 

Casting Adolin out of the family would be extremely harsh from Dalinar, pretty much the equivalent of saying the: "You are not my son anymore" killing one liner. However, I think Dalinar could get angry enough to do it How can Dalinar work to bring back Adolin? In most of my plotting where he stays in Urithiru, Adolin ends up badly injured due to numerous reasons (I have a very vivid imagination ) and Dalinar frets over him. Each time we have seen Dalinar evolve, it was through drastic situation, so I think finding his son in a blood bath would serve just well. In all my plotting where Adolin goes in exile, he always comes back on his own after a more or less long period of time for various reasons.

 

One of Dalinar's oath will give him the latitude to finally forgive his son and give him a second chance. Perhaps not the third, but one will, of that I am quite sure.

 

 

 

The epigraph makes it sound like they screwed up big time, both... And one of them ended up dead/near dead Besides I get a scary feeling that it could be something about Renarin (and his visions) accidentially causing Adolin's death. Or something like in this fanfic: https://archiveofourown.org/works/1877880 . It's of course not mine (all credit goes to the author), but I've read it some time ago and I find it disturbingly possible :ph34r: Especially that ever since I finished WoR I imagined Adolin's future in a similar way (apart from one part that I really hope won't happen but it seems to me as close to the forementioned epigraph)

 

As for Elhokar - I can see him accidentially joining the bad guys while still thinking himself to be good and in right I don't perceive him a a vile person, he's just incompetent and stubborn. As of Kholins in general - they will have ONLY problems in the near future.

 

The epigraph could mean Shallan killing one of her brothers or it could speak of Dalinar and Galivar or it could a metaphore, word brother not meaning blood brother, but Radiant brother... However, if it is related to the Kohlin boys, I do think the one bleeding would be Adolin. Renarin bleeding would not be as tragic as, being a Radiant, he can heal himself. I do agree he'll have a role to play in it all.

 

This fanfic is quite tragic... A bit much I'd say. Renarin should have been able to survive this and I do not see Adolin sinking this low. The obsessive-compulsive thing is a good idea though. I keep thinking Adolin will develop some anxiety related issue over the next book, so that could be it, although I tend to have "burn-out" in mind: him over working himself, not sleeping enough, not eating enough and eventually collapsing out of complete exhaustion, preferably on the battle field or in a duel

 

Elhokar is my prime candidate for Odium controlled Kohlin. He already is petty, temperamental, selfish and childish. He wants to be respected, but he confronts everything. To me, he should be the number one target of Odium. He fall prey to evil and won't be able to be brought back. Bottom line is, in all my plotting, Elhokar dies

Edited November 23, 2014 by maxal

[dvoraen]

I should clarify one thing about my laundry list.  I meant to say that I think Kaladin's parents will end up dead, and that will be one of the major tipoffs leading him towards his Fourth Ideal.   I also keep forgetting Shallan is at 4/5. >.>

Edited November 24, 2014 by dvoraen

[Guest]

I should clarify one thing about my laundry list.  I meant to say that I think Kaladin's parents will end up dead, and that will be one of the major tipoffs leading him towards his Fourth Ideal.

 

I sincerely hope they won't. I feel being forced to live through his parent's premature death would be slightly abusive for Kaladin's character. He already lost a brother, friends and others. Does he really need to lose his parents as well? I do not like when authors work too hard to bring down their characters: Robin Hobb does it a lot with hers and it can be annoying at times.

 

I wish for Kaladin to move forward as a character, to continue dealing with issues, but new ones. Dealing with the death of loved ones is something we have seen him do, abundantly. I would hate to see Kaladin turn into Rand Al'Thor, spending his every waking moment mentally listing the names of the people he failed to protect (dead women for Rand).

 

Besides, I do believe Kaladin needs closure with Lirin and depriving him of such would slow down his growth. He needs to learn why it is he cannot kill to protect as I do feel he can't, not in the way he meant it initially. One of the reasons I am rooting for Lirin and Hesina having a third child is because I want Kaladin to have some happiness in his life, to get the chance to be a big brother again.

[dvoraen]

I sincerely hope they won't. I feel being forced to live through his parent's premature death would be slightly abusive for Kaladin's character. He already lost a brother, friends and others. Does he really need to lose his parents as well? I do not like when authors work too hard to bring down their characters: Robin Hobb does it a lot with hers and it can be annoying at times.

 

I wish for Kaladin to move forward as a character, to continue dealing with issues, but new ones. Dealing with the death of loved ones is something we have seen him do, abundantly. I would hate to see Kaladin turn into Rand Al'Thor, spending his every waking moment mentally listing the names of the people he failed to protect (dead women for Rand).

 

Besides, I do believe Kaladin needs closure with Lirin and depriving him of such would slow down his growth. He needs to learn why it is he cannot kill to protect as I do feel he can't, not in the way he meant it initially. One of the reasons I am rooting for Lirin and Hesina having a third child is because I want Kaladin to have some happiness in his life, to get the chance to be a big brother again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for closure too, but when you consider just how big the death toll in a Desolation has been in the past, it's very likely that there will be few (non-Surgebinders) left, and even Surgebinders will doubtless fall due to Voidbinder powers and the Unmade and so on (incl. but not limited to: betrayal, suicide, and other fun things that happen in wartime).

 

And that's without touching on the Everstorm(s?) effect on the world.

Edited November 24, 2014 by dvoraen

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Actually, I think Lirin will be very pleased to have his son back. Whatever quarrel they may have had will be forgotten in the joy to finally have one of his sons back. Lirin and Hesina's situation will have changed. Whereas Roshone still is a pain and unjust towards them, the villagers warmed up to them. Seeing them lose both of their sons and learning the death on the younger one would have cause great sorrow. People will feel sorry for Lirin and will start to actively support them by giving them food and supplies.

 

One of my favorite Lirin and Hesina pet theory is that had a third child following the departure of their sons. A girl who will grow up to live Lirin's dream of having one of his children following his footsteps.

 

If not, I think Kaladin will come to understand and embrace what Lirin has been trying to teach him all these years ago: he cannot kill to protect. This was the missing piece. Kaladin will thus do his storming best to avoid killing, at all cost. He'll still be a badass, but not a killing one.

 

 

I think Kaladin will win the villagers over the same way he won the bridgemen: by putting up a good effort and being the spotless example. He'll start the work and the others will feel compel to join him. His influence will increase and eventually, he'll take the lead.

 

 

Me too.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong. Lirin will be overjoyed to have his son back. I expect emotional, teary (happy tears of course) reunion with lots of hugs   It's just that Lirin sticks very hard to his beliefs so at one point he and Kaladin are bound to "discuss" Kaladin's choice of being a soldier. Eventually they will come to mutual understanding, but there will be some tension along the way.

 

As for "no killing to protect" - how it refers to Voidbringers? I guess some of them can be somehow "cured", but others (like Venli) are rather uncurable (they want to be Voidbringers). I don't really see this but maybe that's just me. I simply cannot imagine Kaladin going against legion of Voidbringers and trying his storming best not to kill them :ph34r: I agree he will try to find other ways to deal with the problems, but what if there are no other ways?

(Btw, have you seen the cartoon Avatar:The Last Airbender? There's something like this in there - Aang stubbornly tries to find a way to defeat the enemy without killing him. It's really worth watching in my opinion... Especially for your kids I think Though I don't know their ages, so I cannot be sure... )

 

Do you read my mind? I always imagined Lirin and Hesina having a little daughter! How old could she be, 3? So when Kal comes back he meets his adorable sister and finds out she's just as cheerful and kind as Tien and he promises himself he won't screw up this time so he end up being the best big brother ever (optionally spoiling the kid waaay too much)   Of course, at first Kaladin would be rather wary of getting too close to his sister afraid that it will end up like with Tien, but she will have none of it cause as soon as she meets her brother she will immediatelly love him and insist he plays with her... Syl would be incredibly interested in the child so she will make herself seen to her and then the girl will be all "oooh, the spren-lady is so preetty...". Syl will, of course, be delighted at such treatment and she will pointedly inform Kaladin that his sister is way nicer and more polite then he is Part of my idea is that at first Kaladin will try to stay away from his sister so she wouldn't get hurt by association with him (we all know he's paranoid) but then the child gets in a great danger so Kal risks his life to save her. He then hugs the crying girl to him and promises he will always be there for her and will protect her no matter what I even imagine Hesina chastising Kaladin for spoiling his sister so much Because come on, who wouldn't want a big brother who would take you flying whenever you want?

 

As for the way Kaladin will win the villagers - that's pretty much exactly what I meant. He will propose something that needs to be done but everyone will refuse to help him so he will go do it himself. Seeing this some eager teenagers will be the first ones to follow him and slowly the rest of the village will follow. Because, Rock and Teft aside, those were special cases, the first bridgeman to approach Kaladin was Dunny and I kind of see him as a kind of eager teenager (or at least a youth) I read somewhere (but I can't remember where) that Kaladin is a great personification of the Codes as he seems to embody them all while not even knowing them - as in he follows the instinctively Codes because that's how he thinks he should act as a leader not because he knows about the Codes and tries to follow them because he was told to do this (like Dalinar does).

 

 

She decides to become Jasnah wards to save her family. She finds herself in a position she likes, but she jeopardizes it to save her family. To save her family, she accepts being betrothed to Adolin Kohlin, which turns out being a surprise as he actually is a nice person. She joins the Ghostblood to protect her family and learn about Jasnah's murder.

 

Bottom line is everything she does is for an end game: she rarely does something because she wants to. Marrying Adolin makes sense, but does she want it? To grow into a Radiant, I think she'll have to deal with this. So yeah, the last truth could be about her feelings towards Adolin.

 

Yeah, I see her pushing Adolin away and starting to behave just like every other girl he ever dated: being more concerned about her life than his, not carrying for him and what he is going through. She will be very unsupportive and someone will throw it back to her face. Not Navani, nor Dalinar, but Renarin, perhaps? Once he figures out the truth... Adolin will do what he always does when he feels his girlfriends are growing distant: he'll break it up and give up, but this time, it'll hurt. Really bad. A first heart break never is easy.

 

Alright. No more Shallan being brillant, but some Shallan messing up? I think I have written this at some point... It makes sense. She has to learn she is not all knowledgeable. She can make mistake and Adolin will be one huge mistake.

 

Well, if that's how you look at this... I guess I simply perceive Shallan very differenty (and my perception may be biased as I'm not very fond of her).

 

I don't know if Renarin is the type of person to point out to Shallan how unfair she is towards Adolin... Especially since the brothers are very likely to fall apart soon... Navani will see the problem in Adolin not in Shallan and Dalinar will barely even acknowledge this... I think that Kaladin could throw it in her face as she did to him the way he mistreated Adolin in WoR (the talk on the plateau). Something like "You know, Princeling really likes you, maybe you shouldn't be such a shrew to him? Has he ever done something wrong to you?". That would in turn result in a shouting match (as most of their conversations do...) but in the end Shallan would admit that he's kind of right... Generally I mean - Renarin may point out to Shallan how wrong she is towards Adolin but he's not the kind of person to do it bluntly enough for her to understand.

 

The matter with Adolin will be a huge mistake on Shallan's part but I meant something more like ups-I-just-caused-end-of-the-world mistake, not a personal one.

 

 

I do not remember how the oathgate to Kohlinar is described... Does it really enclose the entire palace? Whether it does or not, I do think our heroes will re-open this oathgate in the next book.

 

Bringing Jasnah into Kohlinar would give a bigger spotlight as her plot would evolve with Kaladin's. It will also bring some interesting character interaction between these two. So it is a win-win.

 

From the interlude about ardents I gathered that the oathgate is a big room inside the palace... So I guess the whole palace or at least a big part of it would be transported... That's not to say they won't open it - between Jasnah who is, well, Jasnah, and Kaladin who has some experience with working Oathgates it's very possible. As for the win-win part - I agree completely.

 

 

Casting Adolin out of the family would be extremely harsh from Dalinar, pretty much the equivalent of saying the: "You are not my son anymore" killing one liner. However, I think Dalinar could get angry enough to do it How can Dalinar work to bring back Adolin? In most of my plotting where he stays in Urithiru, Adolin ends up badly injured due to numerous reasons (I have a very vivid imagination ) and Dalinar frets over him. Each time we have seen Dalinar evolve, it was through drastic situation, so I think finding his son in a blood bath would serve just well. In all my plotting where Adolin goes in exile, he always comes back on his own after a more or less long period of time for various reasons.

 

One of Dalinar's oath will give him the latitude to finally forgive his son and give him a second chance. Perhaps not the third, but one will, of that I am quite sure.

 

That's more or less how I imagine the situation:

After many hours of talking and attempts to come to an agreement with Ialai and Amaram it's time for the highprince to announce his decision.

Dalinar: As a retribution for the crime house Sadeas is given all Shards that are in possesion of my family...

Elhokar: But uncle! You cannot do that! I'm not giving them my Shards!

<Dalinar shots Elhokar deadly glare>

Amaram: Och, Your Majesty, of course we wouldn't try to claim your Shards. You have no fault in this tragical event. It's your cousin who commited the crime. We speak only of the Shards being possesed by your uncle, his sons and his soldiers... Nobody would dare to blame Your Majesty for their gravely mistakes.

<Dalinar with effort dismisses the thought of breaking Amaram's neck>

Dalinar: As a punishment for commiting the highest crime, you, Adolin Kholin, are hereby stripped of your Shards, titles and position. I disown you and name you a tenner. That's the final decision. Soldiers, lead him away.

<Ialai pouts, she really hoped for execution. Renarin looks like a ghost. Navani tries to talk to Dalinar but he gently pushes her away. Adolin pales.>

Adolin: But, father, I only wanted to protect you...

<Dalinar looks at him with hard eyes>

Dalinar: You are not my son anymore.

<Adolin break down and cries. Soldiers (propably Bridge 4) gently lead him away with solemn expressions on their faces. Amaram smirks in triumph.>

Right after that Dalinar leaves the chamber, proud, straight-backed, with emotionless expression on his face. As soon as he reaches his chamber and closes the door, he sinks to his knees and cries. He hates himself for what he had done but he knows that was the only way. He hits his fist on the floor repeatedly until it bleed but the Stormlight heals him and nobody knows how much did it cost him to cast away his firstborn son - nobody besides the guards at his doors who heard his pained wailing.

 

 

The epigraph could mean Shallan killing one of her brothers or it could speak of Dalinar and Galivar or it could a metaphore, word brother not meaning blood brother, but Radiant brother... However, if it is related to the Kohlin boys, I do think the one bleeding would be Adolin. Renarin bleeding would not be as tragic as, being a Radiant, he can heal himself. I do agree he'll have a role to play in it all.

 

This fanfic is quite tragic... A bit much I'd say. Renarin should have been able to survive this and I do not see Adolin sinking this low. The obsessive-compulsive thing is a good idea though. I keep thinking Adolin will develop some anxiety related issue over the next book, so that could be it, although I tend to have "burn-out" in mind: him over working himself, not sleeping enough, not eating enough and eventually collapsing out of complete exhaustion, preferably on the battle field or in a duel

 

Elhokar is my prime candidate for Odium controlled Kohlin. He already is petty, temperamental, selfish and childish. He wants to be respected, but he confronts everything. To me, he should be the number one target of Odium. He fall prey to evil and won't be able to be brought back. Bottom line is, in all my plotting, Elhokar dies

 

Well, what I was saying was limited to the case in which the epigraph would refer to Adolin and Renarin. Personally I think it could be about Dalinar and Gavilar when Dalinar finds his brother dead that night - "what have we done?" part referring to the treaty with Parshendi.

 

As for the fanfic - there are many things in it that I don't exactly agree with, but generally I think it portrayed Adolin's psychic after the murder very well - that's pretty much how I think about it. At least to an extent. Of course, if there was any Stormlight around Renarin would simply heal himself, but that wouldn't save Adolin from his guilt. I hope he won't sink this low but I'm not saying he won't (some of my ideas do include him sinking to the lowes low :ph34r: ). I mostly imagine Adolin becoming more solitary (he tries to find supporst in the ones he loves but after being turned down for one reason or another he closes into himself) and reckless (going into fighting without thinking, risking his life way more then before - especially since he doesn't have Shards to protect him). That would ultimately lead to him throwing himself into a battle he cannot win and getting deadly wounded (or even killed) in the process. But of course, no need to worry - Renarin manages to use Progression to save his brother. The brothers reunite and Dalinar also starts to mend the gaping hole between himself and Adolin.

 

Well, not in all of my plots Elhokar dies, but in most of them... Anyway he does make perfect candidate to be controlled by Odium.

 

 

I should clarify one thing about my laundry list.  I meant to say that I think Kaladin's parents will end up dead, and that will be one of the major tipoffs leading him towards his Fourth Ideal.   I also keep forgetting Shallan is at 4/5. >.>

 

How would something as tragic as death of a parent help Kaladin trigger 4th Ideal? I don't really see it. Besides, I think Kal has already lost enough of his loved ones. That would be way to cruel to do this to him. I mean, Mr. Sanderson is not GRRM after all, I don't think he likes to torture his characters more then it's necessary for the plot. And I see no way in which death of Lirin and/or Hesina would be neccessary for the plot. Kaladin deserves some happiness finally

[Guest]

 

As for "no killing to protect" - how it refers to Voidbringers? I guess some of them can be somehow "cured", but others (like Venli) are rather uncurable (they want to be Voidbringers). I don't really see this but maybe that's just me. I simply cannot imagine Kaladin going against legion of Voidbringers and trying his storming best not to kill them :ph34r: I agree he will try to find other ways to deal with the problems, but what if there are no other ways?

(Btw, have you seen the cartoon Avatar:The Last Airbender? There's something like this in there - Aang stubbornly tries to find a way to defeat the enemy without killing him. It's really worth watching in my opinion... Especially for your kids I think Though I don't know their ages, so I cannot be sure... )

 

It does not refer to the Voidbringers, but to other people. I believe the entire story plot revolving around Elhokar was to highlight how it is Kaladin cannot kill to protect. To justify his actions against the king, Kaladin was going on the premise Elhokar's incompetence was endangering innocent life. By removing him, he was thus protecting those poor people the king will undoubtedly kill. Syl warns him against this line of thinking as it is not up to him to decide who is worthy of living or not: he is not to judge, he is not a Skybreaker. He is a protector, not an executioner and I think he may have finally understood this.

 

I do see Kaladin doing his best to avoid killing, not Voidbringers, but enemies, regular Parshendis. I see him going to help heal his wounded opponents. Protecting. Everyone. Even those he hates. Even his enemies. Lead by example. This is how I would like to see Kaladin evolve.

 

My kids are 4 years and 21 months old (girl and boy)... I have to press fast forward in the Lion King as my daughter is afraid of the part where Simba gets attack by the hyenas I think we are not there yet

 

Do you read my mind? I always imagined Lirin and Hesina having a little daughter! How old could she be, 3? So when Kal comes back he meets his adorable sister and finds out she's just as cheerful and kind as Tien and he promises himself he won't screw up this time so he end up being the best big brother ever (optionally spoiling the kid waaay too much)   Of course, at first Kaladin would be rather wary of getting too close to his sister afraid that it will end up like with Tien, but she will have none of it cause as soon as she meets her brother she will immediatelly love him and insist he plays with her... Syl would be incredibly interested in the child so she will make herself seen to her and then the girl will be all "oooh, the spren-lady is so preetty...". Syl will, of course, be delighted at such treatment and she will pointedly inform Kaladin that his sister is way nicer and more polite then he is Part of my idea is that at first Kaladin will try to stay away from his sister so she wouldn't get hurt by association with him (we all know he's paranoid) but then the child gets in a great danger so Kal risks his life to save her. He then hugs the crying girl to him and promises he will always be there for her and will protect her no matter what I even imagine Hesina chastising Kaladin for spoiling his sister so much Because come on, who wouldn't want a big brother who would take you flying whenever you want?

 

If you read this thread from the beginning, I am quite sure I mentioned it. Or perhaps in another thread, but it has been a pet theory of mine for a while now. I want Kaladin to have some happiness in his life and a new sibling would do just that. She would be around 3 or 4, I'd say and in my pet theory, she'll grow into a Karbranth's trained surgeon.

 

Kaladin will definitely spoil his sister.

 

I don't know if Renarin is the type of person to point out to Shallan how unfair she is towards Adolin... Especially since the brothers are very likely to fall apart soon... Navani will see the problem in Adolin not in Shallan and Dalinar will barely even acknowledge this... I think that Kaladin could throw it in her face as she did to him the way he mistreated Adolin in WoR (the talk on the plateau). Something like "You know, Princeling really likes you, maybe you shouldn't be such a shrew to him? Has he ever done something wrong to you?". That would in turn result in a shouting match (as most of their conversations do...) but in the end Shallan would admit that he's kind of right... Generally I mean - Renarin may point out to Shallan how wrong she is towards Adolin but he's not the kind of person to do it bluntly enough for her to understand.

 

Kaladin won't be around so I am guessing Renarin. The brothers will fall apart, but once they reunite themselves and Adolin reaches ground zero, Renarin will turn into protective mode. I'd love to see their role reversed and Renarin taking care of his older brother, mimicking how Adolin used to do take care of him when they were little.

 

But Kaladin and Shallan entering in a shouting match over Adolin is also a great idea. I can almost hear it from here.

 

 

The matter with Adolin will be a huge mistake on Shallan's part but I meant something more like ups-I-just-caused-end-of-the-world mistake, not a personal one.

 

I think Shallan's big mistake will be trusting the Ghostbloods.

 

 

That's more or less how I imagine the situation:

After many hours of talking and attempts to come to an agreement with Ialai and Amaram it's time for the highprince to announce his decision.

Dalinar: As a retribution for the crime house Sadeas is given all Shards that are in possesion of my family...

Elhokar: But uncle! You cannot do that! I'm not giving them my Shards!

<Dalinar shots Elhokar deadly glare>

Amaram: Och, Your Majesty, of course we wouldn't try to claim your Shards. You have no fault in this tragical event. It's your cousin who commited the crime. We speak only of the Shards being possesed by your uncle, his sons and his soldiers... Nobody would dare to blame Your Majesty for their gravely mistakes.

<Dalinar with effort dismisses the thought of breaking Amaram's neck>

Dalinar: As a punishment for commiting the highest crime, you, Adolin Kholin, are hereby stripped of your Shards, titles and position. I disown you and name you a tenner. That's the final decision. Soldiers, lead him away.

<Ialai pouts, she really hoped for execution. Renarin looks like a ghost. Navani tries to talk to Dalinar but he gently pushes her away. Adolin pales.>

Adolin: But, father, I only wanted to protect you...

<Dalinar looks at him with hard eyes>

Dalinar: You are not my son anymore.

<Adolin break down and cries. Soldiers (propably Bridge 4) gently lead him away with solemn expressions on their faces. Amaram smirks in triumph.>

Right after that Dalinar leaves the chamber, proud, straight-backed, with emotionless expression on his face. As soon as he reaches his chamber and closes the door, he sinks to his knees and cries. He hates himself for what he had done but he knows that was the only way. He hits his fist on the floor repeatedly until it bleed but the Stormlight heals him and nobody knows how much did it cost him to cast away his firstborn son - nobody besides the guards at his doors who heard his pained wailing.

 

Not bad, but I don't see Adolin breaking down this quickly. I see it more this way.

 

Adolin walks into the room. He sees all the Kohlin's Blades and Plates being stock piled in one corner: his Plate is amongst them. Dalinar, Navani, Elhokar, Renarin, Ialai and Amaram are standing next to it (Adolin would not be there for their discussions).

 

Adolin: "Father, what is this?"

Dalinar: "The price we have to pay in exchange for Ialai to drop the accusations against you. Our house will support Amaram's claim to the princedom".

Adolin: "But..... Amaram, what he did to Kaladin... And our shard... You are giving all of our shards..."

Ialai: "I believe there is one missing."

Adolin: "One... This is my Plate...."

Dalinar: "Your Blade Adolin".

Adolin: "Father.... there has to be another way...."

Dalinar: "I said your Blade Adolin"

Adolin: "No. I.... I can't"

Dalinar: "Your BLADE Adolin. Hand it over. This is a direct order from your Highprince: you will OBEY."

 

Adolin takes a deep sight, extends his hand and summons his Blade. He watches it for long minutes, without moving nor saying anything.

 

Ialai: "Please take more time kid, we are not in a hurry..."

Dalinar: "Hand it over. NOW."

 

Adolin closes his eyes and murmurs silently "I am sorry" to his Blade as he touches the gem and breaks the bond. He hears a soft whisper as he opens his hand and let it drop to the floor with a sickening sound. The room is quiet. Adolin is blend and white faced. He does not move forward to break the gem.

 

Adolin: "Would that be all Highprince?"

 

When Dalinar fells to answer, Adolin turns over and walks out of the room. He hurries down the corridor. His eyes itches, but he won't let the tears come, not until he safely is alone, in his room.

 

Later on that day, Renarin comes and knock on the door but he is sent away by a brisk: "Go away, leave me alone".

 

Dalinar closes his eyes. The bond with the Blade is not the only one that broke today. From that day and onward, his son would strictly refer to him as Highprince and do exactly as he is told, but the spark in his eyes is gone. He no longer obstinate himself nor voices his opinion as he used to. Dalinar may have succeeded in avoiding his son to be exiled, but he lost him all the same. What now?

 

 

As for the fanfic - there are many things in it that I don't exactly agree with, but generally I think it portrayed Adolin's psychic after the murder very well - that's pretty much how I think about it. At least to an extent. Of course, if there was any Stormlight around Renarin would simply heal himself, but that wouldn't save Adolin from his guilt. I hope he won't sink this low but I'm not saying he won't (some of my ideas do include him sinking to the lowes low :ph34r: ). I mostly imagine Adolin becoming more solitary (he tries to find supporst in the ones he loves but after being turned down for one reason or another he closes into himself) and reckless (going into fighting without thinking, risking his life way more then before - especially since he doesn't have Shards to protect him). That would ultimately lead to him throwing himself into a battle he cannot win and getting deadly wounded (or even killed) in the process. But of course, no need to worry - Renarin manages to use Progression to save his brother. The brothers reunite and Dalinar also starts to mend the gaping hole between himself and Adolin.

 

The portrayal is not bad, but as I said, tragic. Adolin goes down quite low in there. I usually don't bring him this down in my plotting. For the rest, I agree, but I do prefer my burn-out idea. Less tragic, but still very effective.

 

I'd love to hear your ideas. You can use the private MP if you don't feel like sharing on the forum.

[Apotheosis]

 

 

Jezrien's Honorblade: 

 

The Kholins are in Urithiru and now have Jezrien's honorblade.  Since Dalinar, Renarin, and Shallan all have surges of their own to practice, and Navani is busy making fabrials, I think they will let Adolin use the honorblade.  

 

The Stone Shamans are supposed to get the honorblade back.  I doubt they expect anyone to freely give up an honorblade.  My guess: they will come armed with at least one other honorblade.  

 

 

Adolin's Fate:

 

Since killing Sadeas in cold blood, Adolin will attempt to keep it a secret for a while.  Whether he eventually admits to it or someone else uncovers the truth, it will eventually come out into the open.  His father won't be happy with him, but he will defend his actions, and the little voice in his head will agree with him.  

 

He will begin to manifest traits of becoming a Releaser.  

 

Interludes:

 

I expect to see another Rysn interlude, showing off another part of the world we know nothing about.  Maybe New Natanatan or Rall Elorim.  (Actually, we probably won't learn about Rall Elorim until Lift's flashbacks in the back half of the series.)

 

 

Adolin fell prey to Odium's influence in killing Sadeas. It wasn't right in the slightest as it validated Sadeas' arguments and the whimper Sadeas gave before he was killed highlighted the very thing Kaladin learned. If you're going to kill a man, do it in the sunlight with an even playing field.

 

He's going to continue to feel that influence, but I'm guessing Adolin will be entrusted with an Honorblade as Dalinar will turn a blind eye to Adolin, as per usual.

 

Adolin's corruption will likely span a few books, but I'm thinking it's inevitable. His foundation isn't solid, even back when he saved the whore in Sadeas' camp, his refusal of her offer was, "Tempting, but my father would kill me." We'll have an evil Adolin, the greatest duelist in Roshar, weilding an honorblade. Perhaps "winning" other honorblades. It's possible he might even become Odium's champion...

 

Now then, Rysn is a different story, I think she's going to come into a very important role, eventually. The creature she received from the greatshell seems to be the same that Nin uses on Lift. That means she'll be able to negate surgebinding powers. Seems to useful to keep to the interludes.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

It does not refer to the Voidbringers, but to other people. I believe the entire story plot revolving around Elhokar was to highlight how it is Kaladin cannot kill to protect. To justify his actions against the king, Kaladin was going on the premise Elhokar's incompetence was endangering innocent life. By removing him, he was thus protecting those poor people the king will undoubtedly kill. Syl warns him against this line of thinking as it is not up to him to decide who is worthy of living or not: he is not to judge, he is not a Skybreaker. He is a protector, not an executioner and I think he may have finally understood this.

 

I do see Kaladin doing his best to avoid killing, not Voidbringers, but enemies, regular Parshendis. I see him going to help heal his wounded opponents. Protecting. Everyone. Even those he hates. Even his enemies. Lead by example. This is how I would like to see Kaladin evolve.

 

My kids are 4 years and 21 months old (girl and boy)... I have to press fast forward in the Lion King as my daughter is afraid of the part where Simba gets attack by the hyenas I think we are not there yet

 

Well, with that I can agree. Kaladin will do his best not to kill people/Parshendi. Voidbringers are a different matter - they are evil creatures. There's a fat chance somebody (propably Eshonai) will discover a way to free the Listeners from the stormform, so then the priority would be to help them not to kill them. But some still want to be the Voidbringers (Venli and her scholars for example, but very possibly others as well).

 

Ok... That's too early for Avatar. But point still stands - it's a very good cartoon for children, only ones more around 10 My nephew (son of my cousin actually, but it's simpler to say nephew) is 4 as well and he wanted me to turn off the TV when we were watching Lilo and Stitch at the moment when Stitch was to be taken away Instead of turning it off I tried to divert his attention until the happy ending came. It was actually a good thing as I had to focus for a while on something else - I always cry at this point of the movie :ph34r:

 

 

If you read this thread from the beginning, I am quite sure I mentioned it. Or perhaps in another thread, but it has been a pet theory of mine for a while now. I want Kaladin to have some happiness in his life and a new sibling would do just that. She would be around 3 or 4, I'd say and in my pet theory, she'll grow into a Karbranth's trained surgeon.

 

Kaladin will definitely spoil his sister.

 

Hm... That is possible... It's even possible I've mentioned it somewhere before as I really like to think it will be the case...

 

But it's funny that we both thought that he should have a little sister. A brother wouldn't work as well - poor boy would be too much Tien-replacement. A girl is something new. And of course she will be a surgeon - Lirin needs to get at least one of his children to follow in his steps She will want to help people. I even have a little situation in mind - Kaladin gets hurt around Hearthstone. Nothing life-threatening, just a minor wound. He doesn't heal it with Stormlight - he doesn't want to reveal his abilities to anyone besides the Stormlight is scarce during the Weeping, he's not going to waste it when it's not necessary, he simply took care of the wound the old-fashioned way to let it heal on it's own. So his little sister wants him to feel better and to achieve this she brings him a bit of something yummy to eat (some sweet pastry maybe? I wanted to say a flower, but I highly doubt there are any flowers or flowerlike plants around especially during this time of the year, and of course it couldn't be a rock). A sweet little gesture foreshadowing her as a caring character who wants to help people

 

As for Kaladin spoiling his little sister - I think it's an obvious point. He's already proven to be very overprotective older brother. Given the age diference and his desire to be the best brother he can be - he's so going to spoil her rotten.

 

 

Kaladin won't be around so I am guessing Renarin. The brothers will fall apart, but once they reunite themselves and Adolin reaches ground zero, Renarin will turn into protective mode. I'd love to see their role reversed and Renarin taking care of his older brother, mimicking how Adolin used to do take care of him when they were little.

 

But Kaladin and Shallan entering in a shouting match over Adolin is also a great idea. I can almost hear it from here.

 

I think Shallan's big mistake will be trusting the Ghostbloods.

 

Ooooh, I want to see Renarin in a protective mode   But I guess he will point out her mistake/wrongdoing to her but he seems too kind of a person to force her into realising what she's done. If it was easy then she would propably realize it herself. I think she will need a "reminder" of the kind of a metaphorical cudgel to the head Renarin will try very hard for her to see the truth, but he won't have enough force to do it. That's why I want Kaladin to start a shouting match with Shallan about that - this will get to her and she will finally acknowledge everything Renarin tried to tell her before. Actually - it definitely doesn't have to be Kaladin, just somebody capable of forcing Shallan into a powerful argument. Hoid would do way better if he cared enough to even try.

 

As for the Ghostbloods - yes, that is very possible. But still, maybe it's because I don't like her very much, but I want her to screw up very badly :ph34r: It's actually strange how I dislike most popular and well-liked female characters in Brandon's books - I'm starting Hero of Ages and I still can't bring myself to like Vin :ph34r:

 

 

Not bad, but I don't see Adolin breaking down this quickly. I see it more this way.

 

Adolin walks into the room. He sees all the Kohlin's Blades and Plates being stock piled in one corner: his Plate is amongst them. Dalinar, Navani, Elhokar, Renarin, Ialai and Amaram are standing next to it (Adolin would not be there for their discussions).

 

Adolin: "Father, what is this?"

Dalinar: "The price we have to pay in exchange for Ialai to drop the accusations against you. Our house will support Amaram's claim to the princedom".

Adolin: "But..... Amaram, what he did to Kaladin... And our shard... You are giving all of our shards..."

Ialai: "I believe there is one missing."

Adolin: "One... This is my Plate...."

Dalinar: "Your Blade Adolin".

Adolin: "Father.... there has to be another way...."

Dalinar: "I said your Blade Adolin"

Adolin: "No. I.... I can't"

Dalinar: "Your BLADE Adolin. Hand it over. This is a direct order from your Highprince: you will OBEY."

 

Adolin takes a deep sight, extends his hand and summons his Blade. He watches it for long minutes, without moving nor saying anything.

 

Ialai: "Please take more time kid, we are not in a hurry..."

Dalinar: "Hand it over. NOW."

 

Adolin closes his eyes and murmurs silently "I am sorry" to his Blade as he touches the gem and breaks the bond. He hears a soft whisper as he opens his hand and let it drop to the floor with a sickening sound. The room is quiet. Adolin is blend and white faced. He does not move forward to break the gem.

 

Adolin: "Would that be all Highprince?"

 

When Dalinar fells to answer, Adolin turns over and walks out of the room. He hurries down the corridor. His eyes itches, but he won't let the tears come, not until he safely is alone, in his room.

 

Later on that day, Renarin comes and knock on the door but he is sent away by a brisk: "Go away, leave me alone".

 

Dalinar closes his eyes. The bond with the Blade is not the only one that broke today. From that day and onward, his son would strictly refer to him as Highprince and do exactly as he is told, but the spark in his eyes is gone. He no longer obstinate himself nor voices his opinion as he used to. Dalinar may have succeeded in avoiding his son to be exiled, but he lost him all the same. What now?

 

Nice one. But it's not that I wanted Adolin to break down quickly. What I had in mind was more like - the debates with Ialai and Amaram have been going on for a while. It's the last meeting out of many more. Everything was weighing down on Adolin for a long while by then - his guilt, his shame, his father's disappointment, the long time of trying to keep the secret that got out anyway, being pushed away by Shallan, being the only non-Radiant in the family and therefore feeling inadequate... And so when he hears that his father doesn't want to have anything to do with him anymore, that he doesn't even deserve to be part of the family, when he loses the last thing he had - he breaks down. Besides, I kind of imagined him standing in the middle of the room when the others discuss - he has no right to speak anymore, he had a chance to defend himself on the first meeting, now the others will decide his fate and he can do nothing about it. It's not an official trial, but I still imagine him standing there like before the court - another way to show how helpless he is. This scene works out well for me personally

 

 

The portrayal is not bad, but as I said, tragic. Adolin goes down quite low in there. I usually don't bring him this down in my plotting. For the rest, I agree, but I do prefer my burn-out idea. Less tragic, but still very effective.

 

I'd love to hear your ideas. You can use the private MP if you don't feel like sharing on the forum.

 

Agreed. But I'm divided on this - I kind of like the idea of Adolin hitting the rock bottom only to be later lifted back up by his brother and his friends. I say friends - he never had any real friends before. It would do him well if that changed. I think mostly about Kaladin now - Adolin helped him trust lighteyes and stayed by his side during the bad time (I mean the prison situation), now I think Kaladin should support him when he needs it. But of course - mostly Renarin. I think even some of the Bridge 4 could help - something simple like claiming that they owe Adolin a drink for dealing with that cremling Sadeas. A humorous accent to brighten him a bit.

 

My ideas... Well, almost none of them is actually as well developed as some of those you post, where you pretty much summarise a whole plot They are just a simple ideas. One of them being that Adolin in his guilt and sense of abandonement becomes an easy target for Odium to control, completely against his will. That's the most tragic one - in this one Adolin really sinks to the lowest of low, but in the end he manages to regain enough of control over himself to find a way to stop himself from doing something very very evil... But there's only one way to do this :ph34r: Well, that's definitely not a very nice idea Another one is Adolin who already feel the bond with his Blade deep down, even if he can't comprehend what does it mean... But anyway he's not going to give up on this Blade, no matter what anyone, even his father, says needs to be done... I guess I could go over this one some  more, but propably next time This one is actually quite good, I think...

 

 

Adolin fell prey to Odium's influence in killing Sadeas. It wasn't right in the slightest as it validated Sadeas' arguments and the whimper Sadeas gave before he was killed highlighted the very thing Kaladin learned. If you're going to kill a man, do it in the sunlight with an even playing field.

 

He's going to continue to feel that influence, but I'm guessing Adolin will be entrusted with an Honorblade as Dalinar will turn a blind eye to Adolin, as per usual.

 

Adolin's corruption will likely span a few books, but I'm thinking it's inevitable. His foundation isn't solid, even back when he saved the whore in Sadeas' camp, his refusal of her offer was, "Tempting, but my father would kill me." We'll have an evil Adolin, the greatest duelist in Roshar, weilding an honorblade. Perhaps "winning" other honorblades. It's possible he might even become Odium's champion...

 

Now then, Rysn is a different story, I think she's going to come into a very important role, eventually. The creature she received from the greatshell seems to be the same that Nin uses on Lift. That means she'll be able to negate surgebinding powers. Seems to useful to keep to the interludes.

 

As for Rysn - that's true. It can get very interesting.

 

As for the rest... The idea overall is good, but... Well, I don't think there's any reason for me to go over everything here, I'll just say that if you think that Adolin's foundation isn't solid I'd suggest yout to read the threads about him (particularly www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/20110-why-does-everyone-think-that-having-killed-sadeas-will-destroy-adolin-so-much/) to get a better insight of him... There are many posts there that show there's much more to him than it seems. And besides, Dalinar doesn't turn blind eye to Adolin. To Kaladin - yes, to Elhokar - constantly, to Sadeas - even here, yes. But never to Adolin. From Adolin he expects more. He always wanted Adolin to be better man then he used to be. There's no way he could turn blind eye to him. Besides, if anyone is going to use the Honorblade, Elhokar is more likely - he's a bratty king that wants to be respected, and what better way (in his eyes) to get respect than use a magical sword?

[Guest]

Adolin fell prey to Odium's influence in killing Sadeas. It wasn't right in the slightest as it validated Sadeas' arguments and the whimper Sadeas gave before he was killed highlighted the very thing Kaladin learned. If you're going to kill a man, do it in the sunlight with an even playing field.

 

He's going to continue to feel that influence, but I'm guessing Adolin will be entrusted with an Honorblade as Dalinar will turn a blind eye to Adolin, as per usual.

 

Adolin's corruption will likely span a few books, but I'm thinking it's inevitable. His foundation isn't solid, even back when he saved the whore in Sadeas' camp, his refusal of her offer was, "Tempting, but my father would kill me." We'll have an evil Adolin, the greatest duelist in Roshar, weilding an honorblade. Perhaps "winning" other honorblades. It's possible he might even become Odium's champion...

 

Where to start.....

 

Adolin did not fall prey to Odium. He snapped and he needed the anger to propel himself into what he was about to do. Ever heard the expression "the straw that broke the camel's back"? Well, this is exactly what happened to him. He coped, he endured, he withstand all through both books, but in the end when Sadeas takes him in a vulnerable moment, he loses it. He lost all inhibitions and committed murder in a fit of rage. No everyone will agree Adolin did the right thing, but I think he did. He took care of a problem nobody else had the means to. Sadeas needed to die. Adolin was probably the only one capable of taking him out.

 

You may disagree with the "vulnerable" part of my argumentation, but the fact remains he was vulnerable at this specific time. Adolin has been progressively getting rid of the Thrill throughout the book. At first, he falls prey to it during his first duels. In subsequent duels, he fights down the Thrill and refused to give him. At the end, on the Plateau fight, he can't summoned it and is so disgusted by what he is forced to do, he drops his Blade in the middle of a battle. This is significant. Adolin may be young, but he is an experienced soldier personally trained by none other then the Blackthorn. He's been fighting the Parshendis for 6 years. For him to drop his weapon in the mist of the action is no small deal and it testifies as to how unsettled he is at the time. How did the fight go for him ultimately? Average. He won, but in the process he got thrust to the ground, he hurt his head, his wrist, he's bruised all over and he lost his beloved horse. Worst, he just finds out Kaladin and Shallan are Radiants and they are now evolving into a lost city. He is unhinged. Has he been resting? We don't know, but when he escorts Shallan to her room, she says he should probably rest as well. He answers: "Soon", which kinda means: "Not now".

 

Bottom line is when he meets Sadeas, he is seriously pounding on issues he never had to deal with before, wondering where he fits in this new era they are now entering, he's still injured and probably tired as he's been endlessly strolling the lost city when he should have been resting. So yeah, he's in a pretty vulnerable state.

 

Whether or not killing Sadeas was right, the whole scene fells wrong. Adolin certainly thinks he did a horrible thing. He panics at the end (I'd argue he is in shock at that point), another sign he is not falling prey to Odium: if he were, he would be pleased with himself, but he isn't. Killing Sadeas may have been "right" is goes directly against everything Dalinar ever tried to teach him. It is horribly wrong, which brings us to the impossible dilemma he just put himself into: "Can something irrevocably wrong be right?". I guess we will find out. Kaladin learned he cannot kill to protect, what will Adolin learn about rights and wrongs? This is very reminiscent of Szeth's dilemma where he is asks to break the law by killing just so he could obey to another law he swore he'd follow.

 

Would killing Sadeas in the bright sunlight be better? Perhaps. However, I do think that if you are to kill a man, you should be the one trusting the knife in which is exactly what Adolin did. Was the fight unfair? He jumped on him unprepared. That's unfair, but the rest of the fight was quite fair. Sadeas is 50 years old, not 70. Men are still quite strong at fifty and Adolin may be young, but he's injured. He broke his wrist. How does one enter a wrestling match with a broken wrist not properly wrapped into a cast? The fight is not unfair: Adolin was basically fighting with one arm, his off arm. Fighting in a bright sunny field would have looked fairer, but Adolin, at the top of his shape, with his shards, is nearly unbeatable. Is that fairer? Down in the tunnels, Sadeas actually had a chance to take out injured Adolin. Had he known about the wrist and the bruising, he may have won. Has he figured out his opponent was actually striking him with his off hand, he may have guessed something was wrong with the other. Bottom line is Sadeas could have won this fight. A fair duel? He hardly stands a chance, not against our dueling master.

 

The Honorblade... Well, Adolin would never commander the Honorblade for himself. He'll think himself unworthy and besides, he already has a Blade that feels special to him. My gut feeling is if he is ever offered the Honorblade, he'll refuse it, but that's beyond the point: it won't go to him. Dalinar will give him to the king ages before he gives it to his son, providing Dalinar has any say as to who gets it. Last I checked, Kaladin has it. The most probable scenario is the Honorblade was entrusted to the bridgemen to safeguard.

 

Dalinar now... Dalinar would NEVER turn a blind eye on Adolin. Dalinar turns a blind eye on everyone, but never on Adolin. Dalinar is hard on his son, trying to raise him into a worthy man. Dalinar has turn a blind eye on Elhokar, on Kaladin, on Amaram, on Sadeas even on Renarin, but on Adolin? No. He doesn't. He expects his son to behave impeccably. He'll be exemplary harsh on him once he finds out the truth.

 

Adolin's foundations are very solid which is why I think he'll bounce back. He is a very caring and loving person who has consistently put the needs of others before his own. He has never had one slightest thought about himself in two books (well not much and not in ways that really mattered), but has always focus on his father, his family, others. He sees himself as the protector, the guardian of his loved ones: he takes this duty very seriously. As he is about to die, what are his last thoughts? His father. Not himself, but Dalinar. He deeply loves his family, he would die a thousand deaths if it meant sparing them. He has good basis, but he also has weaknesses: impulsiveness, hotheadedness, recklessness. He is an emotional person who still needs to figure out how to positively channel his energy. Dalinar was trying to teach him how to do that. 

 

The whore? I think you are reading the scene wrong. Adolin never had any physical relations with women: he is unmarried in a very prude society. This is quite obvious when we look at his behavior with Shallan: he blushes at the slightest contact and is, overall, quite shy when it comes to physical intimacy. Of course he would refuse a prostitute: he's never done it before! When I read the scene, I figured out he pretty much said the first thing he thought of to politely refuse her, without bruising her pride. He even mentions his father... Come on. Which young man goes and bring his father into play when talking to a prostitute? One that does not have a lot of experience and does not know how to simply say no. It is a common theme with Adolin: he's dated the whole warcamp and yet he knows next to nothing about women. When push comes to shove, he has little significant experience. He even admits it to Kaladin.

 

There are a lot of threads on Adolin out there: we have discussed his persona at lengths. You may want to read them to get better insight on who he is. He's got layers, many layers. He does come out superficial, at first, but this is just a shell: deep down, he is someone else. However, if you really do not like the character, then it may all be for nothing. We all have our favorites and that is very fine.

 

 

Well, with that I can agree. Kaladin will do his best not to kill people/Parshendi. Voidbringers are a different matter - they are evil creatures. There's a fat chance somebody (propably Eshonai) will discover a way to free the Listeners from the stormform, so then the priority would be to help them not to kill them. But some still want to be the Voidbringers (Venli and her scholars for example, but very possibly others as well).

 

Imagine the scene... Kaladin is fighting. He is awesome, he strikes, but does not kill. Once he won the fight, he moves in to take care of the injured: all of the injured, including his enemies. They are dumbstruck as to why their enemy would care for them, but he does.

 

I will protect even those I hate if it is right.

 

Kaladin will take all of the oppresses and the misguided under his wing, whether they want it or not.

 

 

 

Ok... That's too early for Avatar. But point still stands - it's a very good cartoon for children, only ones more around 10 My nephew (son of my cousin actually, but it's simpler to say nephew) is 4 as well and he wanted me to turn off the TV when we were watching Lilo and Stitch at the moment when Stitch was to be taken away Instead of turning it off I tried to divert his attention until the happy ending came. It was actually a good thing as I had to focus for a while on something else - I always cry at this point of the movie :ph34r:

 

Never seen that one... Not to say I am old , but I am from the Little Mermaid's generation I thought it was lame: a love story between a mermaid and a human. Boring. I fond Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom more to my liking

 

Careful with kids, they get scared easily and will pester you endlessly about it afterwards.... Learned that the hard way when I made my 6 years old cousin what said Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom Turns out the heart tearing part is NOT suitable for children. Has not cross my mind at the time

 

 

Hm... That is possible... It's even possible I've mentioned it somewhere before as I really like to think it will be the case...

 

But it's funny that we both thought that he should have a little sister. A brother wouldn't work as well - poor boy would be too much Tien-replacement. A girl is something new. And of course she will be a surgeon - Lirin needs to get at least one of his children to follow in his steps She will want to help people. I even have a little situation in mind - Kaladin gets hurt around Hearthstone. Nothing life-threatening, just a minor wound. He doesn't heal it with Stormlight - he doesn't want to reveal his abilities to anyone besides the Stormlight is scarce during the Weeping, he's not going to waste it when it's not necessary, he simply took care of the wound the old-fashioned way to let it heal on it's own. So his little sister wants him to feel better and to achieve this she brings him a bit of something yummy to eat (some sweet pastry maybe? I wanted to say a flower, but I highly doubt there are any flowers or flowerlike plants around especially during this time of the year, and of course it couldn't be a rock). A sweet little gesture foreshadowing her as a caring character who wants to help people

 

Oh cute. I love this pet theory. However, I'd give a 1% chance of happening I do like to see Kaladin getting happiness. In all my plotting, I tend to go very easy and nice with him: the poor guy has suffered enough. The "Kaladin has a little sister" tend to be very adorable. The adventures of "Kaladin in Kohlinar" are wild.... In some, he gets really enthralled into the depraved lighteyed way of living, despite his will, going as far as sneaking into Adolin's old closet to find clothes suitable for balls and such I will not mention what happens between him and the queen either... but let's say he is in way over is head. Think Mat and Tylin. Poor Kaladin. Slightly out of character though, but funny, very funny. I love this one, so silly

 

 

Ooooh, I want to see Renarin in a protective mode   But I guess he will point out her mistake/wrongdoing to her but he seems too kind of a person to force her into realising what she's done. If it was easy then she would propably realize it herself. I think she will need a "reminder" of the kind of a metaphorical cudgel to the head Renarin will try very hard for her to see the truth, but he won't have enough force to do it. That's why I want Kaladin to start a shouting match with Shallan about that - this will get to her and she will finally acknowledge everything Renarin tried to tell her before. Actually - it definitely doesn't have to be Kaladin, just somebody capable of forcing Shallan into a powerful argument. Hoid would do way better if he cared enough to even try.

 

Renarin going into protective mode are amongst my favorites I have many versions of the same story, but they mostly revolve around the brothers falling apart, Adolin sinking up until Renarin starts to notice something is off with his big brother. He frowns as he is suddenly remembered all it is Adolin has ever done for him: how he stayed with him inside when he was sick, how he refused to go out playing with the other kids because it would have meant leaving his sick brother behind, how he always let him join him in his bed at night when he got scared by his silly nightmares, how he always encouraged him telling he could do it, how he always believed in him no matter what, how he always was the one to stand up for him, how he taught him how to ride when no one else would because of his sickness...

 

Suddenly, he remembers all of these things and he feels horrible because he has failed to be there for his brother on the one time he needed help.

 

In most versions, just as Renarin finally snaps, Adolin goes out in battle, one way or another. He's completely unhinged and unstable. The battle goes horribly wrong for various reasons (treason, poisoning by Ialai, monstrous creatures, impossible foes). Sometimes, I make him drown in his Plate Other times, he's taken prisoner. I think I even put him into a coma in one but in all, he gets out of it quite badly injured. Renarin's healing powers are not there yet, but he becomes quite the over protective brother: sitting night and day next to his brother's bed. Not moving. Hardly resting himself. He's just there, playing with is little box. When Adolin wakes up, he's there. He takes really good care of his brother, nursing him back to health and learning about injuries while being very interest in listening to the surgeons talking...

 

When Shallan comes visiting, worried and concerned when she finds out what happened, he shoves her out. In some versions, he lets her in, but Adolin is later appalled his brother let Shallan see him while he was wearing next to nothing

 

I do not have many versions of the story with Kaladin though as I tend to have him be away. Perhaps I should try to come up with different versions with him in it. Would be fun

 

 

As for the Ghostbloods - yes, that is very possible. But still, maybe it's because I don't like her very much, but I want her to screw up very badly :ph34r: It's actually strange how I dislike most popular and well-liked female characters in Brandon's books - I'm starting Hero of Ages and I still can't bring myself to like Vin :ph34r:

 

You don't like Vin? The badass street urchin who came to embrace her inner giggling girl by admitting she loves ball gowns... and balls...?

 

Nice one. But it's not that I wanted Adolin to break down quickly. What I had in mind was more like - the debates with Ialai and Amaram have been going on for a while. It's the last meeting out of many more. Everything was weighing down on Adolin for a long while by then - his guilt, his shame, his father's disappointment, the long time of trying to keep the secret that got out anyway, being pushed away by Shallan, being the only non-Radiant in the family and therefore feeling inadequate... And so when he hears that his father doesn't want to have anything to do with him anymore, that he doesn't even deserve to be part of the family, when he loses the last thing he had - he breaks down. Besides, I kind of imagined him standing in the middle of the room when the others discuss - he has no right to speak anymore, he had a chance to defend himself on the first meeting, now the others will decide his fate and he can do nothing about it. It's not an official trial, but I still imagine him standing there like before the court - another way to show how helpless he is. This scene works out well for me personally

 

I do have a version that goes along these lines. A lot of shouting. It goes on for days. At the end of it, Adolin is sitting in his corner, head pressed against his hands, breathing heavily and whispering for it to just end, silently begging his father to just stop shouting. Renarin tries to warn his father that this is enough, to stop this, but he does not listen. Eventually, Adolin just snaps and yells to his father to just hang him and get it done. When the room grows quiet and Dalinar fails to answer, Adolin loses it. He screams if no one is about to decide anything, he'll do it for them: he hereby renounced to his titles, his heirloom, his ranks and his shards. He summons his Blade, breaks the bond and trusts it across the room. He rips his uniform away claiming he is not a Kohlin anymore and storms out of the room to pack his things. Do he leaves or is he stop before?

 

 

Agreed. But I'm divided on this - I kind of like the idea of Adolin hitting the rock bottom only to be later lifted back up by his brother and his friends. I say friends - he never had any real friends before. It would do him well if that changed. I think mostly about Kaladin now - Adolin helped him trust lighteyes and stayed by his side during the bad time (I mean the prison situation), now I think Kaladin should support him when he needs it. But of course - mostly Renarin. I think even some of the Bridge 4 could help - something simple like claiming that they owe Adolin a drink for dealing with that cremling Sadeas. A humorous accent to brighten him a bit.

 

I have a few ones revolving around the idea of Adolin getting massively drunk in an attempt to forget his worries    They usually involve the bridgemen and Kaladin, sometimes Renarin. Angry Dalinar a few other times.

 

 

My ideas... Well, almost none of them is actually as well developed as some of those you post, where you pretty much summarise a whole plot They are just a simple ideas. One of them being that Adolin in his guilt and sense of abandonement becomes an easy target for Odium to control, completely against his will. That's the most tragic one - in this one Adolin really sinks to the lowest of low, but in the end he manages to regain enough of control over himself to find a way to stop himself from doing something very very evil... But there's only one way to do this :ph34r: Well, that's definitely not a very nice idea Another one is Adolin who already feel the bond with his Blade deep down, even if he can't comprehend what does it mean... But anyway he's not going to give up on this Blade, no matter what anyone, even his father, says needs to be done... I guess I could go over this one some  more, but propably next time This one is actually quite good, I think...

 

The ones that are the most developed are the ones I spent more time pondering on... Gives me something to do during transit everyday What would happened if?

 

I have never exploited the "Adolin commits suicide" idea.... I never thought he would go this far. Recklessly wasting his life, yes, but holding the knife to his own throat. Perhaps I should

 

Interesting, the last one. Never tried it either. In most of my plotting, he loses the Blade, often as retribution, sometimes in battle, one time in a duel. He never falls prey to Odium in any either. Elhokar does that Elhokar never ends well, Kaladin always has a happy story, Adolin goes down, but pops back up, Renarin grows, Dalinar gets softer.

 

 

As for the rest... The idea overall is good, but... Well, I don't think there's any reason for me to go over everything here, I'll just say that if you think that Adolin's foundation isn't solid I'd suggest yout to read the threads about him (particularly www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/20110-why-does-everyone-think-that-having-killed-sadeas-will-destroy-adolin-so-much/) to get a better insight of him... There are many posts there that show there's much more to him than it seems. And besides, Dalinar doesn't turn blind eye to Adolin. To Kaladin - yes, to Elhokar - constantly, to Sadeas - even here, yes. But never to Adolin. From Adolin he expects more. He always wanted Adolin to be better man then he used to be. There's no way he could turn blind eye to him. Besides, if anyone is going to use the Honorblade, Elhokar is more likely - he's a bratty king that wants to be respected, and what better way (in his eyes) to get respect than use a magical sword?

 

If you put Adolin into the search engine, you'll get all of the old threads. The "It has been foreshadowed Adolin will be a Radiant" has good material in it. There's a few on Elhokar as well.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Imagine the scene... Kaladin is fighting. He is awesome, he strikes, but does not kill. Once he won the fight, he moves in to take care of the injured: all of the injured, including his enemies. They are dumbstruck as to why their enemy would care for them, but he does.

 

I will protect even those I hate if it is right.

 

Kaladin will take all of the oppresses and the misguided under his wing, whether they want it or not.

 

That is perfect And it can be done, we saw Vasher knocking out guards but keeping them alive in Warbreaker after all Also Kaladin tending to all wounded after the battle seems to much like him... That would also make more people respect him. If the story goes this way I expect Kal to have some insane number of followers by the end of the books (like the bridgemen).

 

 

Never seen that one... Not to say I am old , but I am from the Little Mermaid's generation I thought it was lame: a love story between a mermaid and a human. Boring. I fond Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom more to my liking

 

Careful with kids, they get scared easily and will pester you endlessly about it afterwards.... Learned that the hard way when I made my 6 years old cousin what said Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom Turns out the heart tearing part is NOT suitable for children. Has not cross my mind at the time

 

I grew up on Disney and Dreamworks... As well as Asterix and Obelix or Star Wars. Not to metion few obvious ones like LotR... But my very favourite Disney movie was (and still is) Mulan Especially Mushu was cool.

 

I was forbidden to choose movies to watch with my younger family members. I was supposed to go along with whatever they choose. Wasn't much of a problem until lately some of my cousins (ages 8-12) demanded we watch Twilight. I said "no, I'm not watching this stupidity" and left the room. Aunt was rather mad at me :ph34r: But in my defense, that was a rather big family gathering, so I rounded up boys in another room and we watched Garfield A few of the girls joined us too

 

 

Oh cute. I love this pet theory. However, I'd give a 1% chance of happening I do like to see Kaladin getting happiness. In all my plotting, I tend to go very easy and nice with him: the poor guy has suffered enough. The "Kaladin has a little sister" tend to be very adorable. The adventures of "Kaladin in Kohlinar" are wild.... In some, he gets really enthralled into the depraved lighteyed way of living, despite his will, going as far as sneaking into Adolin's old closet to find clothes suitable for balls and such I will not mention what happens between him and the queen either... but let's say he is in way over is head. Think Mat and Tylin. Poor Kaladin. Slightly out of character though, but funny, very funny. I love this one, so silly

 

I know but still I can dream, right? As for "Kaladin in Kholinar" I have many different ideas, but they're not very polished yet. One of them is that he tries to get an audience with the queen to talk some sense into her, but he's not allowed to being a darkeye, so he breathes in some Stormlight, changes his eyes to blue saying something along the lines of "Well, if that was the only problem, then it's taken care of now" and goes in anyway, when the guards are busy trying to understand what just happened

 

 

Renarin going into protective mode are amongst my favorites I have many versions of the same story, but they mostly revolve around the brothers falling apart, Adolin sinking up until Renarin starts to notice something is off with his big brother. He frowns as he is suddenly remembered all it is Adolin has ever done for him: how he stayed with him inside when he was sick, how he refused to go out playing with the other kids because it would have meant leaving his sick brother behind, how he always let him join him in his bed at night when he got scared by his silly nightmares, how he always encouraged him telling he could do it, how he always believed in him no matter what, how he always was the one to stand up for him, how he taught him how to ride when no one else would because of his sickness...

 

Suddenly, he remembers all of these things and he feels horrible because he has failed to be there for his brother on the one time he needed help.

 

In most versions, just as Renarin finally snaps, Adolin goes out in battle, one way or another. He's completely unhinged and unstable. The battle goes horribly wrong for various reasons (treason, poisoning by Ialai, monstrous creatures, impossible foes). Sometimes, I make him drown in his Plate Other times, he's taken prisoner. I think I even put him into a coma in one but in all, he gets out of it quite badly injured. Renarin's healing powers are not there yet, but he becomes quite the over protective brother: sitting night and day next to his brother's bed. Not moving. Hardly resting himself. He's just there, playing with is little box. When Adolin wakes up, he's there. He takes really good care of his brother, nursing him back to health and learning about injuries while being very interest in listening to the surgeons talking...

 

When Shallan comes visiting, worried and concerned when she finds out what happened, he shoves her out. In some versions, he lets her in, but Adolin is later appalled his brother let Shallan see him while he was wearing next to nothing

 

I do not have many versions of the story with Kaladin though as I tend to have him be away. Perhaps I should try to come up with different versions with him in it. Would be fun

 

Aww, adorable   Yes, Renarin would do amazing job taking care of his brother. He would never, ever leave his side. He would sit at Adolin's side day and night, completely uncaring of his own health. Others would bring him food so he would eat. They would even bring him another bed to sleep on since he refuses to leave the room, but Renarin doesn't use it anyway. He thinks he must be just there when his brother wakes up, being awake himself so he wouldn't miss this moment. For some reason I just imagined Rock (or one of the other bridgemen) being forced to knock Renarin out (or drug him) in order to get him to rest even a bit But that's just my crazy brain

 

And I'd really like for Renarin to shove Shallan out of the room. In fact only Dalinar or Navani would be allowed in if they decided to come

 

As for Kaladin's role in this... In my mind the truth about the murder comes out late in the book 3 and the final decision about it is made at the very end. By that time Kaladin just comes back to Urithiru, only to hear the news (in different versions it's just before or just after Adolin's punishment being made). Then he has just enough time to confront Adolin about it in a rather friendly chat. I imagine Kaladin goind to find Adolin and talk to him.

 

Adolin: Bridgeboy? What do you want? To call me a fool or a monster for what I've done? To condemn me like everyone else?

Kaladin: Why would you... No, I'm not here to condemn you.

Adolin: Why then? Just speak and spare me false compassion! I don't need pity.

Kaladin: I didn't come to offer you pity. And my compassion isn't false, ... <here he was about to say Princeling, but he stopped himself just in time>

Adolin: So, what do you say? About what I did? After all, you are embodiment of honor and what's right... <yup, Adolin is cynical, who could blame him in his situation>

Kaladin: <heavy sigh> Being a Windrunner I must say that though you had good intentions, what you did was wrong...

Adolin: I knew it... <he turns back, wanting to end this conversation, thinking that everyone want to condemn him anyway>

Kaladin: But as your friend... <that makes Adolin look at him with a frown> As your friend I say that I understand. You did what you thought had to be done. I may not agree but I know you meant well. You are not a monster, but I can see something from a fool in you.

<Adolin looks at him intently, looking for a lie, but he finds none, so he smiles>

Adolin: Thanks, Bridgeboy.

Kaladin: Anytime <he smiles too> And stop wallowing in self-pity. It's pathetic.

Adolin: You are one to speak... <and with that he grins - for the first time in days>

 

Beyond that I think that any mending of the bonds between Adolin and his family, as well as helping Adolin get back up from the bottom he hit alone will take place in book 4. So Kaladin will be there. Renarin will be most neccessary to help Adolin, but I think he could use a friend as well.

 

 

You don't like Vin? The badass street urchin who came to embrace her inner giggling girl by admitting she loves ball gowns... and balls...?

 

Yes, I don't like her :ph34r: And I can't really explain why... I just don't get that vibe from her, that something which makes me like the character or not... Funny, by now the only lead female characters in Brandon's novels that I liked were Vivenna and Siri (in this order).

 

 

I do have a version that goes along these lines. A lot of shouting. It goes on for days. At the end of it, Adolin is sitting in his corner, head pressed against his hands, breathing heavily and whispering for it to just end, silently begging his father to just stop shouting. Renarin tries to warn his father that this is enough, to stop this, but he does not listen. Eventually, Adolin just snaps and yells to his father to just hang him and get it done. When the room grows quiet and Dalinar fails to answer, Adolin loses it. He screams if no one is about to decide anything, he'll do it for them: he hereby renounced to his titles, his heirloom, his ranks and his shards. He summons his Blade, breaks the bond and trusts it across the room. He rips his uniform away claiming he is not a Kohlin anymore and storms out of the room to pack his things. Do he leaves or is he stop before?

 

Yeah, that's good too

 

 

I have a few ones revolving around the idea of Adolin getting massively drunk in an attempt to forget his worries    They usually involve the bridgemen and Kaladin, sometimes Renarin. Angry Dalinar a few other times.

 

Yes, that would be cool to see I can imagine Adolin foolishly entering a drinking competition against Rock. One of the biggest mistakes in his life

 

 

The ones that are the most developed are the ones I spent more time pondering on... Gives me something to do during transit everyday What would happened if?

 

I have never exploited the "Adolin commits suicide" idea.... I never thought he would go this far. Recklessly wasting his life, yes, but holding the knife to his own throat. Perhaps I should

 

Interesting, the last one. Never tried it either. In most of my plotting, he loses the Blade, often as retribution, sometimes in battle, one time in a duel. He never falls prey to Odium in any either. Elhokar does that Elhokar never ends well, Kaladin always has a happy story, Adolin goes down, but pops back up, Renarin grows, Dalinar gets softer.

 

That's my favourite activity during boring lectures

 

I don't really see Adolin commiting suicide. In this idea of mine it's that he decides to take his own life to protect the others, a different kind of heroic sacrifice. He's being controlled by Odium and that's the only way he can stop it.

The funny thing is, I had this idea for some time now and a few days ago I finally managed to get Hero of Ages into my hands. By now I barely read the first part but I realized that Marsh struggling against Ruin's control is similar to what I imagined about Adolin possesed by Odium. Maybe this analogy will show what I try to say

 

Well, I do have that one idea where Adolin is so determined to keep his Blade that he would do anything to achieve it. After storming out of the room with Dalinar shouting to him to stop acting like a fool and give up the Shard, he hides somewhere deep in Urithiru to avoid being caught and later sneaks out of the city (I imagine that the Oathgates are being opened from time to time to get supplies or something - with their size it's possible to sneak without the Radiant finding out). He becomes something of a deserter, an outlaw, but being lighteyes is enough to help him get further away (can be connected to "Adolin in Azir" or wherever else). He's guilty because he left, but he thinks that his family will be better off without him anyway. Besides he still doesn't understand why he's so determined to keep the Blade. He even feels that it wants to stay with him... At one point Renarin decides to find his brother but it's not so easy...

 

Generally, in all of my ideas Elhokar ends badly (not always dead but always badly), Renarin grows some backbone (while still staying himself), Kaladin finally gets some happiness and Adolin hits the bottom only to come out of it stronger (except from that one with Odium, but that's just one )...

 

 

If you put Adolin into the search engine, you'll get all of the old threads. The "It has been foreshadowed Adolin will be a Radiant" has good material in it. There's a few on Elhokar as well.

 

The search engine and I are not on a very good terms :ph34r:   Besides, I know all that. I wanted to give an advice on where to go to understand Adolin better so nobody (namely you, as you are the one who usually does it) would have to write it all again here