Was anyone else surprised at how weak Breaths are?

[Banazir864]

I knew they weren't as strong as other forms of Investiture, but I wasn't expecting the exchange rate to be this horrible.  Brandon wasn't kidding when he said that Vasher could get Investiture more easily on Roshar.  At first I thought that just meant that getting Investiture from regular highstorms was easier than getting it from people on Nalthis, but no, the difference in quantities is massive, too.  Based on how many BEUs it takes Nomad to heal even relatively minor wounds, it seems like leaving a single basket of spheres in a highstorm on Roshar can give you as much Investiture as Drabbing a small city on Nalthis.  No wonder Vasher and Vivienna decided to change worlds.

Edited February 17 by Banazir864
Typo

[Treamayne]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:46 PM, Banazir864 said:

I knew they weren't as strong as other forms of Investiture, but I wasn't expecting the exchange rate to be this horrible.  Brandon wasn't kidding when he said that Vasher could get Investiture more easily on Roshar.  At first I thought that just meant that getting Investiture from regular highstorms was easier than getting it from people on Nalthis, but no, the difference in quantities is massive, too.  Based on how many BEUs it takes Nomad to heal even relatively minor wounds, it seems like leaving a single basket of spheres in a highstorm on Roshar can give you as much Investiture as Drabbing a small city on Nalthis.  No wonder Vasher and Vivienna decided to change worlds.

Well, we have known since Warbreaker came out that one breath was rather very little (which made the discovery of the Lifeless one-breath command so important). Annotations to Warbreaker Ch 37:

Spoiler

Vivenna Hides Her Breath in a Shawl

This has been possible from the beginning, and if Denth had truly been on her side, he would have admitted that there’s a way she could get rid of her Breaths. What she would need to do is Awaken something with a one-Breath Command. There are some. They don’t do much, but you can Awaken a very tiny scrap of cloth tied into the shape of a person with a very simple Command. That takes one Breath.

Next, you put the rest of your Breath into another object. Then you get that one Breath back and go hunting for a Drab to give it to. Then you take the rest of your Breath back from the object. From there, you can repeat the process if you want to. Vivenna could get rid of the Breaths one by one.

Of course, Denth didn’t want that to happen. He was coveting those Breaths. What he said was intended to sound like an innocent mistake. Many people unfamiliar with Awakening would make that mistake, so if Vivenna learned the truth later, he wouldn’t look suspicious.

But also keep in mind that in an environment like Roshar, expended Stormlight is just gone; while RoW shows us a sample of what an Awakener can do repeatedly reclaiming and Awakening with breaths. 300 BEUs of Stormlight lasts Kaladin about 5 minutes. Zahel or Azure can fight for hours on that much Breath.

Edited March 3 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Zelllion]

I was surprised too. What does this mean for Nalthis?

[QuantumAce]

Only one breath per person makes it a scarce resource, but each one is still only the amount of innate investiture you can scrape off of a person while still leaving them functional. I wouldnt imagine this is a huge amount of raw investiture. 

My first thought was this emphasizes how efficient Awakening is versus something like Radiant Surgebinding, as well as the potential Cosmere wide value of stormlight as a resource. The implications are, significant.

[Colors]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:46 PM, Banazir864 said:

I knew they weren't as strong as other forms of Investiture, but I wasn't expecting the exchange rate to be this horrible.  Brandon wasn't kidding when he said that Vasher could get Investiture more easily on Roshar.  At first I thought that just meant that getting Investiture from regular highstorms was easier than getting it from people on Nalthis, but no, the difference in quantities is massive, too.  Based on how many BEUs it takes Nomad to heal even relatively minor wounds, it seems like leaving a single basket of spheres in a highstorm on Roshar can give you as much Investiture as Drabbing a small city on Nalthis.  No wonder Vasher and Vivienna decided to change worlds.

Well, I suspect that changing worlds may have had more to do with the ethical implications of attaining investiture on Nalthis, not the ease of attaining it...but yeah.

[Highprince10]

I think the fact that just about every other person who has power has had incredible trauma like snapping or spren are attracted to broken people has a part in it. Breath is the most easily exchangeable investiture between people and you don't have to go through something horrible even to get it. I think if you need lots of investiture fast you don't go to nalthis you go to roshar but if you investiture that can last Nalthis is the perfect place to get that. While breathes aren't as flashy as stormlight they are far more useful in day to day life because it doesn't disappear.  

[Shadow of Electrum]

2 hours ago, Highprince10 said:

I think the fact that just about every other person who has power has had incredible trauma like snapping or spren are attracted to broken people has a part in it.

Although a large amount of MoIs involve trauma, that isn't a good indicator of how much investiture is involved. More powerful practitioners like feruchemists, elantrians, and even yoki hijo don't have to go through intense trauma(normally) to have access to their powers. Then there are applications like soul stamps and sprouting that don't take any spiritual aptitude of the practitioner to use, and can be used more like a technology than a personal skill. It is true that trauma seems to be a reoccurring factor in MoIs, but these seem more like natural consequences of the specific art than an actual law of exchange like you imply.

[Highprince10]

I think it's all about the mobility of breath I can't think of a better more permanent way to carry investiture without it disappearing. The only thing that comes even close is Feruchemist medallions and normally you have to be the one to store investiture in them. Perfect Gemstones kind of work but with stormlight you have to use it up pretty fast. The fact that anyone can hold breath or carry an object that has breath is an insane advantage to just about every other magic system we have seen. The only other thing close to it again is Feruchemist medallions and even then you need a Metalborn to make them. Breath is I think the most easily transferable investiture in the cosmere which is why it is valuable.