Dellexe he/him Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 Vin's mom was being influenced by Ruin at that point (making her love one child, Vin, while making her see the other as a monster) so she is perhaps not the best example. That's why I said without fully knowing. I doubt Ruin said "Hey, you're going to make a Hemalurgic spike and steal this specific attribute from your daughter to give to the other!" - She might have had some idea of what she was doing, but I doubt her Intent was that specific at that point.
WeiryWriter he/him Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 That's why I said without fully knowing. I doubt Ruin said "Hey, you're going to make a Hemalurgic spike and steal this specific attribute from your daughter to give to the other!" - She might have had some idea of what she was doing, but I doubt her Intent was that specific at that point. But Ruin was the one providing the Intent, same with when Spook got spiked.
Dellexe he/him Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 But Ruin was the one providing the Intent, same with when Spook got spiked. Eh, true. I didn't think Ruin could project his Intent that way unless the person was Spiked. I could be wrong, however. - I still think there must have been shenanigans preventing the advancement of Hemalurgy, we have confirmation that it has been performed elsewhere in the Cosmere already (I think? I recall a WoB saying that).
Voidus Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 TLR only failed to create new Hemalurgic monsters such as the Koloss, or Kandra, he very well could have discovered plenty of bind points.Or at least that was my understanding of it.
kinxer he/him Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 I still think there must have been shenanigans preventing the advancement of Hemalurgy, we have confirmation that it has been performed elsewhere in the Cosmere already (I think? I recall a WoB saying that). I want to see this WoB, because that sounds amazing and terrifying.
Voidus Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 MOOSEHas Hemalurgy been used on another planet besides Scadrial? BRANDON SANDERSONYes it has. Brandon did not want to give out any more details about who was getting spiked or if the spiking was successful. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=947 1
Dellexe he/him Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I want to see this WoB, because that sounds amazing and terrifying. Moose Has Hemalurgy been used on another planet besides Scadrial? Brandon Sanderson Yes it has. Brandon did not want to give out any more details about who was getting spiked or if the spiking was successful. Ask and ye shall receive http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=947 EDIT: Voidus is one sneaky ninja. Edited September 16, 2014 by KalaDellexe 1
Voidus Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 I've been trained in the Dark Alley, Ninjaing is an essential part of our training 3
Fatebreaker he/him Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Along with advanced Hemalurgy baking. Moose Has Hemalurgy been used on another planet besides Scadrial? Brandon Sanderson Yes it has. Brandon did not want to give out any more details about who was getting spiked or if the spiking was successful. http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=947 This leads me to wonder if it was influenced by a shard. For example, Odium is Cosmere aware and definitely would have no problem with the intent. And people on Roshar are stabbing each other all the time, so there's no shortage of opportunities. Or maybe the Darkhor stumbled upon it. It seems like stabbing folks to gain magic abilities would be right up their Alley. Edited September 16, 2014 by Fatebreaker 1
kinxer he/him Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 Along the same line of thinking, could you steal the gift of an Aviar using Hemalurgy? Also... Or maybe the Dakhor stumbled upon it. It seems like stabbing folks to gain magic abilities would be right up their Alley. I see what you did there. 2
Voidus Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 Along with advanced Hemalurgy baking. This leads me to wonder if it was influenced by a shard. For example, Odium is Cosmere aware and definitely would have no problem with the intent. And people on Roshar are stabbing each other all the time, so there's no shortage of opportunities. Or maybe the Darkhor stumbled upon it. It seems like stabbing folks to gain magic abilities would be right up their Alley. The problem is that as far as we know stealing anything other than the Metallic arts requires the use of Atium, which isn't exactly lying around the cosmere for everyone to use
Fatebreaker he/him Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 But we do know Odium has worldhopped before, when he splintered dominion and devotion. So that's not an issue. Also, Odium wouldn't have to go himself, he would just have to send a minion to get some Atium.
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 You're also forgetting about WalDo the Kandra Worldhopper. It could be that Harmony is testing for Hemalurgic Bindpoints in other Systems. He does have access to Atium after all.
Moogle Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) The problem is that as far as we know stealing anything other than the Metallic arts requires the use of Atium, which isn't exactly lying around the cosmere for everyone to use We have no real information on this front, so I don't see this as a problem. Brandon always said he intended Hemalurgy to transcend Scadrial and be a Cosmere-wide thing, so I strongly suspect atium is not required for off-world magic-stealing. Sazed isn't exactly releasing any, and I don't see why he would change his mind on that front (unless it was for his agents, but then the atium isn't going to be used for Hemalurgy, as Sazed disapproves of its use). The real question is whether or not gemstone spikes are going to be a thing. Humans could have their own gemhearts! (You know, there's really no way to discuss Hemalurgy without it coming across as creepy. I blame Brandon for making the most interesting magic system he's made the most questionable to use.) Edited September 16, 2014 by Moogle
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 Did we ever decide what a Lerasium Spike would do?
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 I doubt it would be as significant as it is to Allomancy. Just as the most important metal in Allomancy is Lerasium, Atium is likely the most powerful metal in Hemalurgy. Lerasium probably does something quite notable, but I doubt it is as potent as "steal any power ever".
Lumen Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 The real question is whether or not gemstone spikes are going to be a thing. Humans could have their own gemhearts! Hemalurgy is the magic system provided/powered by Ruin, correct? So what do folks think. Does Hemalurgy require a Scadrian practitioner, or does it require a Scadrian metal, or both? Gemstone spikes implies Scadrian practitioner w/ gemstone spikes being the method of bending the magic system to work on another planet's magic system. On Scadrial, metal is somehow recycled (I think there is a WoB for that?). What is the origin of the metal that Hoid uses for allomancy?
WeiryWriter he/him Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 Hemalurgy is the magic system provided/powered by Ruin, correct? So what do folks think. Does Hemalurgy require a Scadrian practitioner, or does it require a Scadrian metal, or both? Gemstone spikes implies Scadrian practitioner w/ gemstone spikes being the method of bending the magic system to work on another planet's magic system. On Scadrial, metal is somehow recycled (I think there is a WoB for that?). What is the origin of the metal that Hoid uses for allomancy? The Metallic Arts do not require Scadrian metal, any metal with the requisite purity/alloy mixture can be used. We know it's been used off world but whether the spiker needs to be Scadrian was RAFO'd (I think). 1
Moogle Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) We don't know if it requires Scadrian metal to my knowledge, though it's basically confirmed. We only know that Allomancy can be used with non-Scadrian metals. It's all but confirmed that this would mean Hemalurgy and Feruchemy could use non-Scadrian metals, but we don't know for sure. The WoB I'm thinking of is (maybe I missed another): Q: If I were to Soulcast pewter, the way Shallan does with the blood in The Way of Kings, would an Allomancer be able to use it?A: You could create Allomantically viable metals, yes.Q: But is it automatic?A: I would say that the pure metals are, but the alloys are not. As to the Scadrian question, the WoB is: Q: Have people not from/on Scadrial used Hemalurgy? A: Yes. Which leaves open the definite possibility that you don't need to be Scadrian. I'm of the opinion that you do not need to be. If you had to be, Hemalurgy would probably not be be of "great interest to the Cosmere", as the Ars Arcanum and Brandon have repeated over and over. (It would still be important, but worldhopping Scadrians are too rare to make it that important.) But satisfying explanations are rare - how does Hemalurgy work, since only the spiker's intent seems to matter? You'd think you would need Ruin's Investiture to be involved at some point, but if that were the case then there should be Hemmings (... this was unintentional I swear) or Hemborn, because that's how the other two magics on Scadrial are expressed - you need some trait in your sDNA. Hemalurgy doesn't seem to need that. Edited September 17, 2014 by Moogle 2
Lumen Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Hmm. Magic systems supposedly come about as an interaction of a Shard with a World, and the world is the main shaper of the magic system. If Hemalurgy is the power of Ruin expressed on Scadrial, how does this work? The world requires that magic be expressed through metals (matrix for storage, power flow, or extracting sDNA). You'd think you would need Ruin's Investiture to be involved at some point Yes, we have seen that most magic system's require the practitioner to have some of the investiture of the shard on that world. So I would expect that only someone with a bit of Ruin in them could practice Hemalurgy. If someone from another world could practice hemalurgy, it would them make sense that they obtain some of Ruin's investiture first (Maybe through Atium?) Or does the planet itself also shape the practitioner. (not sure how using one planet/shard's magic system on another planet works...) Edited September 23, 2014 by Lumen
Redbird he/him Posted September 26, 2014 Posted September 26, 2014 Well It'd essentially just be a regular Kandra only with a double Blessing of Potency as well as their normal blessing. So a shapeshifter with 3x regular strength? Yes please. Also throw in some Allomantic spikes just for fun. But do the effects of spikes of the same kind stack?
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