Oudeis Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 The coin inside Zane's mouth was "within a body" and could not be pushed on. Yet in that same fight, Vin pushes on coins in his hand. What is the distinction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Held things can be pushed. The line seems to be that some part of the metal is fully enclosed within the body. For instance, if his mouth were open, I believe that coin could have been pushed/pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Held things can be pushed. The line seems to be that some part of the metal is fully enclosed within the body. For instance, if his mouth were open, I believe that coin could have been pushed/pulled. So you'd guess that if Zane clenched a coin inside a fist, so it was fully enclosed by his hand, it would not be able to be Pushed? Or is that not 'enclosed' in the body? For my own thoughts, we know the mechanism for Push-resistance is that the body's innate Investiture serves to help block Pushes. If you can see it as part of your body, I figure that protection extends to the item. Mistborn swallow metals, so having something like that inside their mouth is probably enough to serve as 'part of their body'. Or maybe the enclosing flesh just serves to act like a Faraday cage. Seems like it could very hard to pin down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 To muddy things even further, Vin comments on those specific coins, saying that she noticed he'd grabbed some coins. Did she see his closed fist and assume it was full of coins? Is a fist not "enclosing" enough, and therefore she noticed the blue lines leading to the coins? Or was his fist simply loosely held, so she could observe with her eyes that he held coins, and this is why they weren't "enclosed" because they weren't entirely surrounded? Yet she pushes and pulls on those coins from a variety of angles over the next several seconds; surely loosely held coins would have broken free from his grip, or at the least he'd've felt the tug and gripped them tighter. I concur, this will be a difficult thing to pin down. As to his mouth, he speaks at two points, and I'm reasonably sure he must've already had coins in his mouth by then, and I believe Vin is burning iron and steel at that point. She doesn't comment on blue lines strobing towards his mouth. The text is somewhat unclear, both on whether she's burning at that exact moment, and whether he'd yet put the coins in his mouth by then. From my reading, however, either of those scenarios would feel awkward and forced, a deliberate act of ontology following intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I assumed it was just tied into the cognitive conceptions, once it's healed over an Earring isn't enclosed either but it's still unpushable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowspren Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't think 'enclosed' is the word you guys are looking for. If he is holding them in his hand then they are still on the outside of the body, they are just being held in his hand. Also one must take into account that they had a limited knowledge of things due to the oppression of the Lord Ruler... also it never says that metal 'piercing' the body cannot be pushed against, it just says that it is much much harder to do so. However the LR had enough allomantic power to push on people inner metals. It is probably quite similar to the theory about pushing on trace metals trace metals... it just takes power and practice. With the coin... I think it is specifically that it is inside his body and therefore does not register allomantically... but then again, she wasn't looking for it, if she was she may have picked it up even if it was faintly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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