Theory-Ryshadium

[Localconfusi0n]

So I was just looking at the Q&A with BS and saw a quote about how many sentient beings are on Roshar. Brandon  listed them and then said "from there it depends on whether or not you consider Ryshadium sentient or not" This sparked an idea in my head.

 

So, I feel that comment hints that Ryshadium are sentient, atleast in a low level way maybe more so. We also know that Ryshadium were ridden by the KR in the past and they are extremely hard to obtain because they choose their riders and are few in number.

 

So heres my theory, Ryshadium will only choose a rider that has potential to be a KR, which is something they can sense somehow (we have a WoB that they have some sort of investiture. That might explain how but that's just a guess) More so, they will only choose a Radiant that has a combat role in the KR, which would account for Renarin now having one (also speculation as we don't really know much about his Order, however I know he has Progression and I forget the other Surge but I feel pretty well founded in this)

 

If all this wild speculation is correct this would show a pretty damnation high intelligence on their part to be able to correctly identify all these things.

 

I feel like I had more to say on this but lost it all in the process of writing what I did. Let me know what you think. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by jefftucker0525

[Marmota he/him]

Thats a good theory

 

We know that Ryshadiums have Investiture and were related with Radiants. So Ryshadium's "sensing" of KR is a really good theory.

 

 

And since Renarim doesnt have one we really have to adapt the theory to the facts. Your argument is quite good, maybe only "soldier" types of KR get a Ryshadium. 

 

Three things now:

 

- Does any place cite Bondsmiths as potential soldiers? ( The must be, since Dalinar is a very skilled soldier, but maybe there is a headings or something)

 

- If it is true, than Adolin is one step closer to become our Dustbringer ( or Willshaper....since both orders were indeed fighting in the last desolation as descripted in the Prelude, so both orders are confirmed soldiers)

 

 

Edit: I found this old thread about the subjet

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6644-ryshadium-wor-spoilers/ 

 

They put some interreting thoughts as well

Edited August 18, 2014 by Marmota

[Localconfusi0n]

Thanks for sharing that link, but it makes me kind of sad, I had thought I was onto something no one had thought of/noticed.

[Moogle]

I'm not sure that Ryshadium can 'sense' someone that will become a KR. Everyone can become a KR (except maybe non-Rosharans), and until the spren bonds you, you don't have any different Investiture. Though, lighteyes might have some extra Investiture... do we know of any darkeyes with Ryshadium? Still, Sadeas never attracted one, despite trying at some point.

 

I suspect it's less about special Investiture-sensing properties, and more that the Ryshadium only pick riders that will care for them very well (their intelligence lets them be more discerning). Dalinar and Adolin both formed strong bonds with their horses and obviously care for them well. Someone like Sadeas wouldn't. The horses may just see how potential riders treat them before choosing them. People who would care for their Ryshadium are naturally the sort of same people who end up becoming KR, so there's a correlation, but it's not that the horses are looking for Radiants.

 

Could be wrong. I just prefer to look for non-supernatural explanations.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Moogle

[Guest]

I have a better explanation as to why Renarin, an accomplished rider and a proto-radiant, did not attract a Ryshadium...

 

He never went to the "special field" where one could meet one. Adolin bounded Sureblood as a teenager, shortly after winning his shardblade and before the war on the Plains (I am guessing here as once on the Plains, opportunity to visit Rhysadium must have been scare). He must have been 16, 17 to the most, which would bring Renarin down to 13-14.

 

Renarin was just too young to bound a Rhysadium at the time and afterwards, his family was stuck on the Shattered Plains fighting for the Oath Pact. He just never had the opportunity.

[NeutroniumAlchemist he/him]

Personally i'm sure they are sentient, otherwise why would Hoid bother to be surprised by them if they were just mindless animals?

 

And it's an interesting idea that Ryshadium can be bonded with someone in some way. If that is the case maybe the death of Sureblood/loss of bond will have a negative effect on Adolin? Perhaps Sadeas would think so?  

[weebojello]

Interesting idea. I was going to suggest that bonding a Ryshadium may in fact stop a spren bonding with a person. Dalinar being the exception only because the Stormfather was *required* to give Dalinar the visions because Gavilar had died (and was receiving the visions). 

 

The negative part to that hypothesis is that Adolin is clearly on his way to bonding to a spren as evidenced by him no longer having access to the thrill.

 

Ultimately, my thought was this: spren bonds with human, as the bond gets stronger, spren / human bond with Ryshadium.

 

In the book, are the only two Ryshadium we know those of Adolin / Dalinar? Does Elkohar have one, as well?

[Guest]

And it's an interesting idea that Ryshadium can be bonded with someone in some way. If that is the case maybe the death of Sureblood/loss of bond will have a negative effect on Adolin? Perhaps Sadeas would think so?

 

The Ryshadiums do bond with their riders. They sense their feeling and we saw Sureblood trying to cheer Adolin after he was dumped by Jakamav. I am thinking the Ryshadium bond may have been akin to feeling this nice butterfly light and airy in your head, always there trying to sooth you when you need it. Losing the bond probably feels like losing your inner best friend, the one who is always there and who, without talking can sense your feelings... or something along those lines. It could be Sureblood actually helped Adolin control himself better, but it could also be he did not take the time to grief and this will just one of those things that adds up.

 

Interesting idea. I was going to suggest that bonding a Ryshadium may in fact stop a spren bonding with a person. Dalinar being the exception only because the Stormfather was *required* to give Dalinar the visions because Gavilar had died (and was receiving the visions).

 

It would make sense to consider Dalinar an exception.

 

The negative part to that hypothesis is that Adolin is clearly on his way to bonding to a spren as evidenced by him no longer having access to the thrill.

 

Or the Thrill has just moved out We could also argue the death of Sureblood is a horrible foreboding for Adolin not becoming a KR as they once were their steeds.

 

 

Ultimately, my thought was this: spren bonds with human, as the bond gets stronger, spren / human bond with Ryshadium.

 

So in your logic, you can't bond the Ryshadium first? Which would mean poor Sureblood had to die for Adolin to properly bond a spren? I am not sure I am buying this theory... I tend to believe Ryshadiums chose riders showing the potential to become proto-radiant. Adolin could be one, but it does not mean he will. Same with Dalinar, although Dalinar the Blackthorn would not be such an obvious choice.... Following my logic, Hatham must have some qualities

 

In the book, are the only two Ryshadium we know those of Adolin / Dalinar? Does Elkohar have one, as well?

 

Highprince Hatham has a Ryshadium: he is the only other one mentioned. We know there are 12 Ryshadium in camp: 2 in the Kohlin camp and none in Sadeas. Elhokar definitely does not have one: he has a horse from the best Shin's stock. His horse is mentioned in WoR. Highprince Vamah who accompanied them did not have one either.

 

I have honestly no idea who rides the remaining 9 Ryshadiums... Whoever they are, they don't deal with the Kohlins often and they are not Highprinces.

[weebojello]

Those are some really great points!

 

Firstly, my recollection of all the Ryshadium was woefully ignorant. Thanks! I had forgotten there were that many. You raise a great point. Seemingly, Ryshadium being KR friendly would indicate there were at least 9 other KR candidates?

 

My thought is that Ryshadium are *later* in the process of being a KR. For instance, in classical times, a person would become a KR, and then bond with a Ryshadium. After the Recreance, people were still of KR quality, but because of the sundering with spren, there were no spren to bond with, so the Ryshadium would then bond with the KR quality people. Certainly I think Adolin needs to be considered of KR quality. So to sum up, it's not that you can't bond a Ryshadium first, it's that normally it wouldn't have happened first, and in a normally functioning KR Rosharian system, you wouldn't bond a Ryshadium first. I still have the unfounded thought that there's a part of a person (spiritual / cognitively) broken that is needed for any bond. But that's solely because the instances of characters that are KR that we have seen *are* broken. Hmm, as I think of it, by that token, the death of Sureblood might actually be the part that helps break Adolin more? I cannot recall specifically, but I seem to recollect that he was missing the thrill at the final battle after Sureblood was killed. As I right that, I realize that he'd missed it in duals prior though. Shoot. Soooo close on that.

 

I certainly think that Adolin will bond with another Ryshadium at some point. I find your suggestion that the lack of Sureblood may impact Adolin making him slightly more erratic probable and correct. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

I am eagerly looking forward for more WOB on this topic and him exploring this connection even more!

[Guest]

Those are some really great points!

 

Firstly, my recollection of all the Ryshadium was woefully ignorant. Thanks! I had forgotten there were that many. You raise a great point. Seemingly, Ryshadium being KR friendly would indicate there were at least 9 other KR candidates?

 

 

Potentially    I am thinking Ryshadium are sensing Radiant qualities or Radiant potential in their riders, but it does not mean they will become one. You could have all the qualities, but utterly fail once put to the test.

 

 

My thought is that Ryshadium are *later* in the process of being a KR. For instance, in classical times, a person would become a KR, and then bond with a Ryshadium. After the Recreance, people were still of KR quality, but because of the sundering with spren, there were no spren to bond with, so the Ryshadium would then bond with the KR quality people. Certainly I think Adolin needs to be considered of KR quality. So to sum up, it's not that you can't bond a Ryshadium first, it's that normally it wouldn't have happened first, and in a normally functioning KR Rosharian system, you wouldn't bond a Ryshadium first. I still have the unfounded thought that there's a part of a person (spiritual / cognitively) broken that is needed for any bond. But that's solely because the instances of characters that are KR that we have seen *are* broken. Hmm, as I think of it, by that token, the death of Sureblood might actually be the part that helps break Adolin more? I cannot recall specifically, but I seem to recollect that he was missing the thrill at the final battle after Sureblood was killed. As I right that, I realize that he'd missed it in duals prior though. Shoot. Soooo close on that.

 

I guess it is plausible the lack of spren have altered the bonding process with the Ryshadium. It does make sense that pre-Recreance Radiant formed bond to their steed after forming a Nahel bond, although we could object that medieval knights got their horses as squires, so the horse came before the knighhood.... We have very little evidence to work with

 

For the brokenness, it believe one needs to have cracks in its soul to form a bond with a spren. You do not need to be broken to attract a spren, your qualities, your person attract the spren, but without cracks in the soul, the bond cannot happen. This is why all our KR have been horribly broken. Also, a KR needs to prove its worth. If you look closely at Kal and Shallan, you can see how they deal with their hardships by pushing forward their first attribute: protecting for Kal and creative for Shallan. You need to truly embrace your attributes.

 

There is a lot of stuff going on for Adolin and I do think Sureblood's death will weight in the balance. That event alone is not enough to "break" Adolin, but I think it will add itself to the rest as he surely failed to actually grief for the horse. It will bite him back and when he will start to crumble down under the pressure, it will pop back. With all he has going on, I had Adolin pinned down for a nervous breakdown He does seem the type, with all his nervous anxiety related ticks And he is a hard worker used to hiding his insecurities behind a facade of confidence as he is the strong one in the family... A nice little cocktail for the Rosharian equivalent of a burnout

 

Actually, there is only one duel where Adolin explicitly feels the Thrill and it is his first one. After that, he feels it in the battle with Jakamav. There is no other mention of it until the last battle where he wonders where it has gone. At first, he thinks he is just tired, but when he is forced to slaughter the singers, he gets really shaken. After that, I think he was just too dazed to take notice. The general assumption is the lost of the Thrill is either a sign he may have started a bonding process or it is Neargoul (spelling?) that has moved...

 

I too want to see Adolin get another Ryshadium

[weebojello]

Excellent insight on Adolin. I had hoped two things for Adolin during WOR: 1) somehow his shardblade would talk back to him and 2) an actual rock would start talking to him - it being a spren of course.

 

Now knowing what we know, #1 was never going to happen, which is unfortunate, but to be expected.

 

I too look forward to more Ryshadium bonding. Theoretically if Kaladin bonds one...it'll probably be comedic in nature. And frankly, if there's a character that could use some positive mojo, it'd be him.

[Localconfusi0n]

And as for how broken Adolin is, we really don't know. He doesn't seem broken, but we know next to nothing of his past. He could have some traumatic experience that, like Shallan was, he is repressing.

[Guest]

Excellent insight on Adolin. I had hoped two things for Adolin during WOR: 1) somehow his shardblade would talk back to him and 2) an actual rock would start talking to him - it being a spren of course.

 

Now knowing what we know, #1 was never going to happen, which is unfortunate, but to be expected.

 

May I ask why a rock? I am dumbfounded by this... but I am still really hoping for number 1. The theory is not completely dead as Brandon did say it was not impossible, just very difficult.

 

 

I too look forward to more Ryshadium bonding. Theoretically if Kaladin bonds one...it'll probably be comedic in nature. And frankly, if there's a character that could use some positive mojo, it'd be him.

 

Well, perhaps if Rainbow Dash flies to Roshar she could bond with Kal I think it definitely help boost Kaladin's spirit to bond with a blue flying girl horse with a rainbow mane......

 

 

And as for how broken Adolin is, we really don't know. He doesn't seem broken, but we know next to nothing of his past. He could have some traumatic experience that, like Shallan was, he is repressing.

 

We know his mother died, but the death of a parent does not necessarily break someone... I don't think he is repressing anything, but he is being a bit sentimental when it comes to her and he does appreciate Navani's motherly attentions (whereas most young man his age would just push her away shamefully).

 

I do not think there is much traumatic experiences in his past or even in his present, well nothing Shallan/Kaladin traumatic, but I do think he has too much on his plate right now. The accumulation of many small things can seriously bring the strongest men down. He seems the type to cope and cope and cope and cope until he just can't cope anymore and ends up collapsing on pure physical and emotional exhaustion.

[Localconfusi0n]

Im not saying his trauma would be anywhere near Shallan or Kaladins level of traumaticness, but Im sure that something has happened to him that he considers traumatic or has blocked out. you have to think about how everyone reacts differently to different situations. Something could happen to me that Im 100% ok with, but the same thing might happen to another person and it seriously messes them up. Or, as Maxal pointed out, a lot of small things can add up to something large.

 

 

On a side note, maybe the rock thing was a reference to Adolin becoming a Dustbringer? I could be wrong about this but for some reason Dustbringers and stones seem to go together in my mind, stone dust or something like that ??? idk

 

 

Lastly I want to point out, I am not saying that if you are bonded to a Ryshadium you are destined to become a Radiant, just that you have the requisite character traits, or did at one point. You may have lost them, but we know Ryshadium are extremely loyal and once they choose you I doubt they will go back on it.   

[Guest]

Im not saying his trauma would be anywhere near Shallan or Kaladins level of traumaticness, but Im sure that something has happened to him that he considers traumatic or has blocked out. you have to think about how everyone reacts differently to different situations. Something could happen to me that Im 100% ok with, but the same thing might happen to another person and it seriously messes them up. Or, as Maxal pointed out, a lot of small things can add up to something large.

 

I don't know... He does not look very traumatized to me... or blocked or anything. However, what I do see is a tendency towards anxiety: the way he feels nervous before a duel he knows he'll easily win, the way he starts to be afraid he may fail despite knowing how good he is, the way he slowly starts to realize he can't keep a women and thus agree to have someone else take care of it, the way he felt sick in the stomach in WoK when thinking he sabotaged his father, etc. Those are the early signs: I have been that person, so I really relate to all this. Worst, I started exhibiting the exact same behaviors at exactly the same age (22-23-ish): you are confident in yourself, you know your skills and yet you start fearing you may not prevail. It's a never ending wheel, you set foot into it and it takes you down tumbling without you being able to do anything about it. I feel Adolin has too much to deal with right now and his coping mechanism will be related towards anxiety related issues and it may lead to a complete breakdown. May. Maybe not. Or maybe I am reading this completely wrong   

 

 

On a side note, maybe the rock thing was a reference to Adolin becoming a Dustbringer? I could be wrong about this but for some reason Dustbringers and stones seem to go together in my mind, stone dust or something like that ??? idk

 

Oh nice. I didn't think about that one

 

 

Lastly I want to point out, I am not saying that if you are bonded to a Ryshadium you are destined to become a Radiant, just that you have the requisite character traits, or did at one point. You may have lost them, but we know Ryshadium are extremely loyal and once they choose you I doubt they will go back on it.   

 

I agree with this. I do think Ryshadium riders have the potential to become Radiants, but it does not mean they will. Radiants need to be trialed, they need to be "broken" and yet manage to survive through it by exhibiting their main attribute, much like Kal moves through his life-long trauma being seeking to protect those close to him.