Wyrmhero he/him Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 So throughout the books we know that Scadrial has the concept of 'heaven' and 'hell' within its religion, but my question is where that concept comes from. For all that Sazed said that he'd preserve the teachings of The Steel Ministry, we know sadly little about them, I think, since most of the characters are Skaa and the only real noble main character, Elend, doesn't know too much or spend time talking about it. So does anyone know whether they were concepts from previous religions that just didn't die away, or if they were a core part of The Steel Ministry? Did Skaa go to heaven, or were only nobles eligible? How did The Final Empire treat TLR within the context of this as a 'Sliver' of Infinity? I'm not sure if we have any information about this, but if anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd love to know. 2
theravenchilde she/her Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 We have next to no information on the actual doctrine of the Steel Ministry, as far as I am aware. I was kinda thinking about this the other night (while attempting to reverse engineering the possible origins of jazz on Scadrial based on the use of antiphony in masses and psalms, then comparing the Ministry to the Catholic Church and its development from medieval times through the Baroque period) and wondering how the religion would function if no one actively participated in it besides its priests. I assumed Brandon used references to heaven and hell to keep Scadrial as Earth-analogous as possible. Unless there are any religious references in the MAG, which I have not read yet, then we only know that the Ministry taught a boiled-down version of Alendi's logbook from TLR's perspective. We have much more on the Ministries' internal structure and politic-mongering, and I think Yomen be our best religious representative on this matter, but I don't know that he ever mentioned heaven or hell. I am about to get to him in my reread, however, and I will be on the lookout in case he does. 2
Oudeis he/him Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 I was discussing this with my friend, who as a priest was sorta fascinated at the idea of a God who expressly told his followers, "Don't bother believing in me, just get to work." Remember that a contract doesn't happen, a marriage isn't legal, unless an Obligator witnesses it. The Lord Ruler managed to make economics part of his religion. When you sign a contract, you are technically observing one of the rituals of your religion. Or when you attend a public execution and feel the divine Soothing from TLR himself. It's unique to Scadrial to have a "charlatan" God who can actually put his money where his mouth is on the whole "look at my wonders and tremble" front. At the end of the day, it's a situation fundamentally unique from anything analogous to Earth. Though you're absolutely correct, of course, about how the Obligators and Inquisitors themselves did perform what we on Earth would think of as more typical religious ceremonies; what little is revealed in the books about them is in the annotations. I don't know if you're reading those, or have read them in the past. 2
Kobold King he/him Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 We have next to no information on the actual doctrine of the Steel Ministry, as far as I am aware. I was kinda thinking about this the other night (while attempting to reverse engineering the possible origins of jazz on Scadrial based on the use of antiphony in masses and psalms, then comparing the Ministry to the Catholic Church and its development from medieval times through the Baroque period) and wondering how the religion would function if no one actively participated in it besides its priests. I assumed Brandon used references to heaven and hell to keep Scadrial as Earth-analogous as possible. Unless there are any religious references in the MAG, which I have not read yet, then we only know that the Ministry taught a boiled-down version of Alendi's logbook from TLR's perspective. We have much more on the Ministries' internal structure and politic-mongering, and I think Yomen be our best religious representative on this matter, but I don't know that he ever mentioned heaven or hell. I am about to get to him in my reread, however, and I will be on the lookout in case he does. Please tell me you intend to make a thread about the Scadrian jazz. It would be awesome and thought-provoking. Sadly, I do not believe there is much information on the OP's subject. The Steel Ministry was a despicable religion, and very little of its dogma was recorded over the course of the books.
Fatebreaker he/him Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) Man, having a Steel Inquisitor as your priest would scare the snot out of me... Can you imagine going to confession? "... and that's it." "Really? That's all of your sins? I'd hate to think you..." Sound of whetstone grinding along the blade of an obsidian axe, "...left something out." Then, inevitably, "I'm sorry my son, but your sins are too great. We must spike the sin out of you." Edited August 15, 2014 by WeiryWriter please don't double post, use the edit feature 11
theravenchilde she/her Posted August 16, 2014 Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Please tell me you intend to make a thread about the Scadrian jazz. It would be awesome and thought-provoking. I was intending to have jazz clubs and speakeasies in my Mistborn/Homestuck au I'm working on, so I will end up having a poopload of meta and worldbuilding on how this would happen in the first place. I'll see what I can come up with for a starter in the meantime, though. I've found a few vague mentions of religious ceremony types things after reading today. Apparently TLR used some sort of "metal triangle" (.... a shuriken ?? pls be a shuriken can you imagine ninja Inquisitors) in some of the Steel Ministry's ceremonies, although Marsh does not elaborate as he is busy killing people with them like he's friggin' Magneto. I'll post the reference and a couple other things I found later. Edited November 15, 2014 by Rubix Combining Posts
Haradion Drogon Posted August 18, 2014 Posted August 18, 2014 Man, having a Steel Inquisitor as your priest would scare the snot out of me... Can you imagine going to confession? "... and that's it." "Really? That's all of your sins? I'd hate to think you..." Sound of whetstone grinding along the blade of an obsidian axe, "...left something out." Then, inevitably, "I'm sorry my son, but your sins are too great. We must spike the sin out of you." Confession scares the begeepies out of me every time, hence why I avoid whenever possible - and that's being born a Catholic, AND the only priests I've ever known being fantastic and kind men. The thought you've described to me there gives me shivers.
happyman he/him Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 Man, having a Steel Inquisitor as your priest would scare the snot out of me... Can you imagine going to confession? "... and that's it." "Really? That's all of your sins? I'd hate to think you..." Sound of whetstone grinding along the blade of an obsidian axe, "...left something out." h Nah, they only spike the sin out of you if you admit to having blasphemed against Allomancy by having used it. Or unless their hemalurgical experiments are running short of victimsvolunteers. OK, that was less comforting than I thought it would be.
Fatebreaker he/him Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 OK, that was less comforting than I thought it would be. When Inquisitors are involved, nothing is very comforting.
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 Nah, they only spike the sin out of you if you admit to having blasphemed against Allomancy by having used it. Or unless their hemalurgical experiments are running short of victimsvolunteers. OK, that was less comforting than I thought it would be. Hemalurgic antimony? Steals sin?
happyman he/him Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Hemalurgic antimony? Steals sin? Yep. The "sin" is having Allomancy without permission from TLR. The absolution is giving that power to an authorized recipient, i.e. the Inquisitor. The side effect of death is unfortunate but enjoyable. (From the Inquisitors point of view, of course.)
theravenchilde she/her Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 So, at SLCC, I asked Brandon if it would be reasonable to compare the Steel Inquisition with the Catholic Church, at least in structure and power (I was really just trying to confirm my theories on musical development, which were actually all correct heck yeah). Obviously not doctrine, although some methods of Inquisition are not unexpectedly probably similar. So yeah there's that.
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