Telepathy and its implications for parenting

[Two McMillion he/him]

Random thoughts that have been floating around in my head lately:

 

1. If you had the ability to perceive someone's thoughts, emotions, and memories staring at them and concentrating for a second or two, under what circumstances would you use this ability on your children?

 

2. (same universe as above) If, when your child was six, you discovered that they would soon develop the ability to control other human beings like puppets, and you had the option of either letting it develop naturally, giving them an implant that would delay developing the power (with the possibility of unpleasant side effects as a result), or having the power removed entirely, what would you do?

[Zenith]

Interesting questions...

 

1. I don't think I would. I would hold the threat over their heads, perhaps prove I have the power to them. This would hopefully encourage them to be truthful in their dealings with me, and if I suspected something major, really major going on with them (say drug and alcohol addiction and abuse), then I would use it.

 

2. I think I would have the power removed entirely. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all. Even people with the best intentions tend to go awry with such awesome power. If that had side-effects, I wouldn't risk it, though. I would do my utmost to ensure the child learns responsibility and a moral code before they become old enough to abuse the power

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

1. The idea of a parent who can tap into their child's innermost thoughts with minimal effort gives me the creeps. I'm of the opinion that emotions, thoughts, and memories are private. Period. If you want to share them with someone, share them, but hearing those thoughts from another person should be a privilege, not a right. Accessing someone's thoughts and memories without their express permission is, in my opinion, a violation of privacy. If I had that power, I would be tempted to use it, yes, but if the technology existed, I might pay to have it removed. Otherwise, I would do everything within my power to resist invading the privacy of others. I'd get my husband to help me, have my kids hold me accountable, buy blindfolds, whatever it took to resist using that power on the people I loved. 

 

2. I have to think about that one a bit more. I'm torn between allowing them the choice to not use it, and removing that choice entirely. Basically, I'm struggling with the moral implications of each. None of the above options is a good solution, but then again, it's a problem that doesn't have any good solutions. 

Edited June 27, 2014 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[Swimmingly he/him]

2. Teach them that it's only OK to use it for less than five seconds.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

2. Teach them that it's only OK to use it for less than five seconds.

 

Long enough to make someone pick their nose or stick out their tongue, but not long enough to commit a crime. I like it. 

[traceria she/her]

1. Only in dire circumstances would I use it or when invited to do so.  I'd want to give them some moral guidelines in word and in my own deeds.

 

2. Send them to Professor Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters.  Well, if it were in that universe, I would.  I think it would be more beneficial to instill a good moral code at a young age.  Young children first learn this by being told what is right and wrong, and as they mature, they'd start to see the why behind it.  Mostly, they'd need to be taught what circumstances would allow involvement and which would be disrespectful and intrusive.  Ex: It would be okay to use your powers if you see one person about to stab another.  It would be okay to stop that person from completing their harmful deed, but don't go dealing out punishment upon the would-be stabber yourself.

[Shaggai]

Make your kid swear the Windrunner oaths and tell them that if they break the oaths, very bad things will happen. Problem solved. If you do it right, when they break the oaths (you know it'll happen at least once) they'll blame all of their bad luck on their breaking the oaths. Then they'll be convinced for life. Just remember: Do not say that they will lose their powers if they break the oaths. If you do, you risk them breaking the oaths, keeping the powers, and realizing that there aren't any actual consequences to breaking the oaths. You'll never be able to get them under control again.

[Observer]

Well, since I just got back from a two hour discussion on manipulation and the circumstances under which terrorism is a viable option, I should totally reply to this morally ambiguous thread without even bothering to cool off and think about the questions outside of my current mood. Here we go.

 

In terms of the first one, I cannot be the only person who's psychology lessons have resulted in an intense fear of reinforcing terrible behavior in children years down the road. Being able to see it all unfold as it happens would be fantastic. Sure, emotions and thoughts are meant to be private, and it's guaranteed to dehumanize everybody around you once you start seeing them as nothing but emotions and words, but I might still stick with it under certain circumstances, foremost among them the #2 question. The kid is a bundle of emotions. Likely simple compared to an adult, manipulation is the ugly word for what we all basically do to them on a daily basis to raise them right. While it would wear on my psyche a little to use my own child as a lab rat, the results of a childhood when one's emotions are on full display are simply too good to pass up. How would this kid do in school? How much would they value the thoughts and emotions of others? Would they be better at reading people or worse? Frankly this isn't something you can just forget about, and I'd be all over it at some point.

 

Really, personality is just a list of physical and mental patterns that we follow because they've worked in the past. Whiny people do it because whining worked previously, etc. Being able to watch the young mind at work would present a fantastic opportunity to rid it of laziness and mental health problems, among other things. Yes, it's terrible but I'd feel just as bad if I didn't do it to somebody and even worse if I did it to somebody else's kid.

 

Then there's number two. The kid just won the superpower lottery. I hate to sound callous or rude, but a human puppeteer could solve so many problems that I'd be horrified to learn somebody passed up the chance to use them. I'd be all but obligated to stall their development as long as possible, just to buy to for me to come up with a solid plan for directing them well. Step one is minimal physical contact. I myself must, at all costs, avoid being controlled. This means that despite having a large presence in the child's life and being seen and heard and loved, I cannot actually let the child be anywhere near enough to use the power on me. At least until they're under control. As sick as it is, nobody should ever grow up with this power. It's simply too easy to be corrupted by it. The child will be raised to follow orders and little more. I myself will follow that one guide for the soon to be power mad, to keep the same from happening to me.

 

Assuming I'm still a telepath, I would make certain to reinforce all the necessary behaviors to have a very obedient and unambitious child. Not really that hard if you can see it all play out in front of you. The house would be set up like a smaller, more personalized version of Aperture Science, something a mind-reader should have no problem paying for with such a good job opportunity. Reinforcement in the form of omniscient/omnipotent seeming beings punishing the child for any unauthorized ambitions or power usage. I myself must be seen as untouchable and above it all, while many unsuspecting visitors are allowed to visit and interact, giving the child plenty of opportunities to learn. Eventually, they will.

 

From there, I suppose a sadistic mix of Death Note and Code Geass must take place. With the ability to control anybody I please under my control, an enormous number of the world's problems could be solved. Idiotic media and political decisions can be neatly undone and covered up, crime can see an interesting and creative downturn when the organization is forced to kill its own members to stay alive, and all the while I'll lament the fact that I'm a horrible person who frankly doesn't deserve success but really took the best available option all things considered.

[Swimmingly he/him]

...

...

...

...

...Not to put too fine a point on it, Observer, but I think you might be going a little high-IQ Taravangian on us.

 

I mean.

 

Playing puppeteer on THE puppeteer, who is your child, to turn the world into a dystopian place, deliberately brought to the edge of utopia by brutal power, but a power unchecked and unwaning to cause suffering for power's sake...

 

Kinda brutal here, friend.

[Shaggai]

Well, since I just got back from a two hour discussion on manipulation and the circumstances under which terrorism is a viable option, I should totally reply to this morally ambiguous thread without even bothering to cool off and think about the questions outside of my current mood. Here we go.

 

In terms of the first one, I cannot be the only person who's psychology lessons have resulted in an intense fear of reinforcing terrible behavior in children years down the road. Being able to see it all unfold as it happens would be fantastic. Sure, emotions and thoughts are meant to be private, and it's guaranteed to dehumanize everybody around you once you start seeing them as nothing but emotions and words, but I might still stick with it under certain circumstances, foremost among them the #2 question. The kid is a bundle of emotions. Likely simple compared to an adult, manipulation is the ugly word for what we all basically do to them on a daily basis to raise them right. While it would wear on my psyche a little to use my own child as a lab rat, the results of a childhood when one's emotions are on full display are simply too good to pass up. How would this kid do in school? How much would they value the thoughts and emotions of others? Would they be better at reading people or worse? Frankly this isn't something you can just forget about, and I'd be all over it at some point.

 

Really, personality is just a list of physical and mental patterns that we follow because they've worked in the past. Whiny people do it because whining worked previously, etc. Being able to watch the young mind at work would present a fantastic opportunity to rid it of laziness and mental health problems, among other things. Yes, it's terrible but I'd feel just as bad if I didn't do it to somebody and even worse if I did it to somebody else's kid.

 

Then there's number two. The kid just won the superpower lottery. I hate to sound callous or rude, but a human puppeteer could solve so many problems that I'd be horrified to learn somebody passed up the chance to use them. I'd be all but obligated to stall their development as long as possible, just to buy to for me to come up with a solid plan for directing them well. Step one is minimal physical contact. I myself must, at all costs, avoid being controlled. This means that despite having a large presence in the child's life and being seen and heard and loved, I cannot actually let the child be anywhere near enough to use the power on me. At least until they're under control. As sick as it is, nobody should ever grow up with this power. It's simply too easy to be corrupted by it. The child will be raised to follow orders and little more. I myself will follow that one guide for the soon to be power mad, to keep the same from happening to me.

 

Assuming I'm still a telepath, I would make certain to reinforce all the necessary behaviors to have a very obedient and unambitious child. Not really that hard if you can see it all play out in front of you. The house would be set up like a smaller, more personalized version of Aperture Science, something a mind-reader should have no problem paying for with such a good job opportunity. Reinforcement in the form of omniscient/omnipotent seeming beings punishing the child for any unauthorized ambitions or power usage. I myself must be seen as untouchable and above it all, while many unsuspecting visitors are allowed to visit and interact, giving the child plenty of opportunities to learn. Eventually, they will.

 

From there, I suppose a sadistic mix of Death Note and Code Geass must take place. With the ability to control anybody I please under my control, an enormous number of the world's problems could be solved. Idiotic media and political decisions can be neatly undone and covered up, crime can see an interesting and creative downturn when the organization is forced to kill its own members to stay alive, and all the while I'll lament the fact that I'm a horrible person who frankly doesn't deserve success but really took the best available option all things considered.

Won't work. Your solution is basically to smash society, then duct-tape it back together in a better position. You and your child are the only things holding the world together. If either one of you dies, is incapacitated, or loses access to the powers, society will come crashing to the ground. Telepathy and the ability to puppet people can't make you immortal. You're basically doing short-term bad things in return for medium-term good things and long-term terrible things. The only moral system that would consider that acceptable would be egoism, and if you were an egoist you wouldn't be trying to reform society.

[Observer]

On the contrary, I find it would be less like the crush and duct tape example and a little more like surgically extracting a tumor. Or, in this case, temporarily forcing a tumor to be productive. And granted, I'm not immortal, but I'm not holding the world up, I'm stopping it from making idiotic decisions and keeping the criminal aspects of it productive. Really, I probably don't even need to kill most of the heads of crime I use telepathy to track down. I'd like to take this one tiny sentence inconveniently located in the middle of this mess to say that I don't actually believe any of what I'm saying, but intend to keep going until crushed regardless. But anyway, with mind-reading and puppeteering, a little testing and some lab rats ought to let me perfect the art of painting smiley faces on their souls, to keep them productive and happy long after we leave. Sure, things will more or less snap back once both myself and the kid are dead, assuming I can force my views onto another person before I die, which wouldn't be all that hard, but that's still the lifetime of a single person wherein things were better than before. Sure nobody's stopping the bad decisions and unproductive people from doing their thing, but the old unproductives had their efforts blocked, and might even still be alive after I'm gone, carrying on the legacy of not being complete letdowns to the historians. 

 

Really what I'm saying is that it would feel like an enormous waste to throw away a gift with as much potential as this. The issue here being that raising somebody with this level of power is borderline impossible. Going through the stages of life, it would be a huge undertaking to even begin raising this kind of child, and odds are you would break them. It's simply a better idea to go on ahead and break them, then use them like an extension of your own abilities. Now it's back to the same question. You have such an amazing power to use, and to use it for little things would be a waste. It's using a shardblade to cut vegetables. Putting the power to constructive use is really the better option. And since the only use for controlling people is to control people, it's going to be needed to control people. Exactly as said on the tin. The only people worth controlling are those who could either have a positive effect but won't, or those who will have a negative effect but shouldn't. From here, all that remains is deciding who needs to have their course shifted, and how to keep your own course straight. Not using it is just such a waste.

[Shaggai]

On the contrary, I find it would be less like the crush and duct tape example and a little more like surgically extracting a tumor. Or, in this case, temporarily forcing a tumor to be productive. And granted, I'm not immortal, but I'm not holding the world up, I'm stopping it from making idiotic decisions and keeping the criminal aspects of it productive. Really, I probably don't even need to kill most of the heads of crime I use telepathy to track down. I'd like to take this one tiny sentence inconveniently located in the middle of this mess to say that I don't actually believe any of what I'm saying, but intend to keep going until crushed regardless. But anyway, with mind-reading and puppeteering, a little testing and some lab rats ought to let me perfect the art of painting smiley faces on their souls, to keep them productive and happy long after we leave. Sure, things will more or less snap back once both myself and the kid are dead, assuming I can force my views onto another person before I die, which wouldn't be all that hard, but that's still the lifetime of a single person wherein things were better than before. Sure nobody's stopping the bad decisions and unproductive people from doing their thing, but the old unproductives had their efforts blocked, and might even still be alive after I'm gone, carrying on the legacy of not being complete letdowns to the historians. 

 

Really what I'm saying is that it would feel like an enormous waste to throw away a gift with as much potential as this. The issue here being that raising somebody with this level of power is borderline impossible. Going through the stages of life, it would be a huge undertaking to even begin raising this kind of child, and odds are you would break them. It's simply a better idea to go on ahead and break them, then use them like an extension of your own abilities. Now it's back to the same question. You have such an amazing power to use, and to use it for little things would be a waste. It's using a shardblade to cut vegetables. Putting the power to constructive use is really the better option. And since the only use for controlling people is to control people, it's going to be needed to control people. Exactly as said on the tin. The only people worth controlling are those who could either have a positive effect but won't, or those who will have a negative effect but shouldn't. From here, all that remains is deciding who needs to have their course shifted, and how to keep your own course straight. Not using it is just such a waste.

The problem is that your solutions would have consequences beyond the obvious ones. Maybe crime will go down. But then what happens when you die? A vast number of people will (even during your lifetime) be out for your blood. There are plenty of people who would attack you out of fear alone. Then, when you puppet them (because what other method do you have to deal with them?), lots of other people get scared, reasonably, and try and kill you. Eventually, you'll be puppeting so much of society that all of the governments will attack you because you're too much of a threat. So you puppet them. Then you and/or your child dies. Suddenly, all of society no longer functions. It was running entirely on puppetry. A vast power vacuum opens up. The government no longer knows how to do its job. There are probably several attempted takeovers and secessions. Anarchy ensues, with the government unable to do its job. Crime skyrockets, infrastructure collapses, and millions die throughout the world. Eventually, some sort of governments arise from the ashes. The world has been set back a few hundred years. (Okay, so maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit, but it would still be bad.)

Edited July 10, 2014 by Shaggai

[Swimmingly he/him]

Not to mention the fact that, say, you could be taken out by drone, sniper, missile, natural disaster, freak accident, your child turning against you, a single person immune to your puppetry, a trained animal, a trap set before hand, controlling so many people that you accidently order them to do something stupid like dump a load of flammable chemicals just in front of the intake for a nuclear power plant, disease, stress breaking your mind like a frail twig and making you go mad, any of the above happening to your child, suicide, others arising with similar abilities, etc.

Any of this, including, as has been said earlier, your natural death, does exactly as was described in the previous post.

However, in a world where your child becomes Gaia's Puppetmaster, consider the last of my points:

What if there are others?

Suddenly, you do not have an absolute ruler instilling order in the world. You have a pantheon of angry gods throwing armies against eachother to attain ultimate power; basically the world of the Buggers before the unification in the Card's Enderverse.

So, I argue that the prior arguments offered by Observer can be simplified: If I had all the power in the world, I'd do it right, this time. Your arguments could be applied as well to, say, overwhelming military force and a religion-like leader worship, as is applied in North Korea. However, North Korea does not rule the world because other countries possess more force. There is a force to counter them.

So, if we assume that this is a single puppet master world, then this could work, and make the world a temporarily better place, longer term if puppetry on an unconscious level of the entire world was achieved, so the principles driving them were themselves changed. However, barring that, any situation would be setting itself up for a dystopian fall of civilisation, even assuming absolute power did not corrupt absolutely, when it ended.

That is the best case scenario for a puppetry based large-scale power grab.

After all, people would still be around.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

People were never meant to be puppets. We have free will for a reason. And the thing about having your emotions manipulated, or even your will controlled, is that one of two things will happen to the person being manipulated/controlled. 

 

1. They will become docile, unable or unwilling to trust their own judgment and highly likely to become catatonic or panicky once their freedom is returned to them. 

 

2. They will become stubborn and do the exact opposite of what they have been told to do once they are free, will turn and attack the person who controlled them, or both. 

 

As Swimmingly and Shaggai have said much more eloquently than I have, once you no longer have control of the populace, you'll be left with a mix of catatonic/panicky people and angry, violent ones. Which kind of defeats the purpose of your new world order. 

[Observer]

Lucky for me, personality is just a programmed series of behaviors a person tries first because it worked in the past. Memories are little more than storage, etc. There are actually perfectly viable, albeit difficult and time-consuming, ways to edit your own personality, memories, and other notable psychological features. Since I own half the populace completely, I would quickly have everybody start fixing themselves the moment their main issue was solved and/or prevented. They themselves would slowly but surely overwrite their own natures and leave much more worthwhile people in their places. Odds are they'll still make the odd dumb decision, but being able to behave passably while independent of my control is a major milestone I will encourage everybody to make. Normally this would be a process far too risky to leave to everybody, but lucky for them I'm a telepath and will be there to guide them to exactly the right result if they happen to be important enough to society. Even if they're not, they should get at least a good enough treatment to make them better than before, and if they make too much trouble I'm sure I can make time to visit them personally. It's not like I have much else I need to do.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you continue to assume that you will not be driven to madness, that your child won't, or that you will make bad decisions. When the entire world is an extension of yourself, what happens when your finger slips, for lack of a better analogy? What happens when you don't have the right information? What happens if you simply are not good at psychologically managing half the population finely? Who would you leave in control when you died?

What is the point of a world without free will? Does the survival of a species justify the effective destruction of its sapience?

What about if it doesn't need saving?

Because your arguments so far revolve around the hypothetical that you need to save the world from itself by assuming ultimate, sadistic control.

So, what if you're wrong?

[Observer]

Put as fine a point on it as you want Swim, a moral debate is still an awesome moral debate.

 

EDIT: Well, according to this crummy browser your earlier post just changed from 2 paragraphs to 4+. I'll cover that one while I'm here.

 

In a purely hypothetical scenario I won't waste much time on, I would ideally be able to read my own mind better than normal, and at least notice a few fundamental (haha) things changing in time to self-correct. However, this doesn't seem like a safe option to fall back on. Back in of forum discussion of Portal 2, somebody brought up the topic of 

(Spoilers for P2, for those who somehow haven't played yet)

being put inside of the GLaDOS mainframe. 

It would give you amazing power and intelligence, but has driven all three people who tried it insane. The people on the thread came together to create a flexible and variable plan. One that, despite one's own madness and impaired judgement, would still keep the original goal and steps above all else. A twisted kind of schedule under which you can simultaneously be insane and following a greater plan made by a smarter you. Kind of like the diagram now that I think of it. The point is that I'm going to go nuts. It'll almost certainly happen, and though I could ideally stave it off, I'll need to spend some of my time either re-inventing what they created, or scouring the depths of my mind to find wherever it got buried.

As for bad decisions, I'd find crime of almost any kind to be worth stopping. Wars can end while I'm at it, and misinformation shouldn't be much of an issue with control and reading-access to the mind and body. In terms of controlling the population, I doubt micromanagement of the whole world would be practical. Lucky for me I only need to pull a handful of people off of bad moves, and the rest of them, the ones who are just plain bad, can either die or be forcible reformed by themselves. I'd love to argue about whether or not this constitutes free will, but I get the feeling in this scenario I simply wouldn't care. The goal is to force people to accelerate their maturation on all fronts, and then they can handle the rest once I'm gone.

 

As for the earlier post I somehow missed, in the presence of another person with this power, I'd have to see how they'd use it. If they decide to do as I'm doing, a collaboration might be in order. If they waste it, we strategically grab them and either use them as extra micromanaging or we kill them. If they're making a less well-meaning power grab, I suppose the only option left is to abandon the entire effort and focus everything on correcting them, thus ridding myself of 80% of the guilt and moral ambiguity. If there's any issues with my own child the answer is mental therapy, reassertion of previous brainwashing, possibly drug therapy if it's not too huge a risk, etc. With my particular abilities, I'm fairly sure I could catch it growing before anything became an issue. Pre-arranged traps can always be a problem, assuming anybody found out the details on what I'm doing, but having hordes of loyal servants has its bonuses. A few friends in the right places, with the correct smileys painted on their minds or just outright pupettry would be more than enough to handle most if not all automatic/long-distance traps and attacks. And if I turn out to be completely wrong about the world needing saving, I won't do it. But that would require there to be no war, no crime, and no bad decisions that have wide-spread consequences, which are all how most versions of Earth like to complicate themselves.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Observer

[Shaggai]

Lucky for me, personality is just a programmed series of behaviors a person tries first because it worked in the past. Memories are little more than storage, etc. There are actually perfectly viable, albeit difficult and time-consuming, ways to edit your own personality, memories, and other notable psychological features. Since I own half the populace completely, I would quickly have everybody start fixing themselves the moment their main issue was solved and/or prevented. They themselves would slowly but surely overwrite their own natures and leave much more worthwhile people in their places. Odds are they'll still make the odd dumb decision, but being able to behave passably while independent of my control is a major milestone I will encourage everybody to make. Normally this would be a process far too risky to leave to everybody, but lucky for them I'm a telepath and will be there to guide them to exactly the right result if they happen to be important enough to society. Even if they're not, they should get at least a good enough treatment to make them better than before, and if they make too much trouble I'm sure I can make time to visit them personally. It's not like I have much else I need to do.

That depends on how the puppetry works. If it's literally just "the child uses the people as a meat puppet", that won't work because the person's brain is being overridden. You can't change their behavior, because it bypasses their neural structure entirely.

[Observer]

Even without the ability to control what a person thinks, I still have my telepathy and the kid still has their puppetry. If we take a look at the wonderful and infamous CIA Kubark Manual from 1963, we'll find the core principals of brainwashing and rules. One of these is that brainwashing tends to work on nearly any scale, any technology, any situation. It's one of those unchanging things thanks to its unchanging foundation. Now, the core techniques, effects, and variations of brainwashing are as such:

 

Isolation:

- It leaves victims dependent on their captors, and deprives them of social support.

- Complete isolation, semi-isolation, or in this case, feeling alone in the group.

Demonstrations of Omnipotence/Omniscience:

- Reinforces the pointlessness of resistance, greatly increases compliance expected by themselves and others.

- Demonstrations of control over the victim's fate, removal of free will and proving knowledge of the supposedly unknowable.

Degradation:

- Hurls the subject down to the bottom of the hierarchy of needs

- Demeaning punishments, taunts, deprivation of privacy, in this case controlled self-humiliation

Perception Control:

- Forces intense thought and introspection, locks attention onto their situation.

- Monotonous food, lack of movement/control/anything to do, situational isolation.

 

 

Even without the ability to force them into the easy road, I still have all the right tools for the old-fashioned kinds of brainwashing. It will require micro-managing them, but I intend to take them in chunks regardless. No point taking the whole planet in one step. Each person I take control of will begin a countdown of inevitability. In time, they will be reformed, regardless of their willpower, with only the occasional need for reinforcing punishment, with the goal of eventually removing the need for them at all. 

Edited July 11, 2014 by Observer

[Shaggai]

Even without the ability to control what a person thinks, I still have my telepathy and the kid still has their puppetry. If we take a look at the wonderful and infamous CIA Kubark Manual from 1963, we'll find the core principals of brainwashing and rules. One of these is that brainwashing tends to work on nearly any scale, any technology, any situation. It's one of those unchanging things thanks to its unchanging foundation. Now, the core techniques, effects, and variations of brainwashing are as such:

 

Isolation:

- It leaves victims dependent on their captors, and deprives them of social support.

- Complete isolation, semi-isolation, or in this case, feeling alone in the group.

Demonstrations of Omnipotence/Omniscience:

- Reinforces the pointlessness of resistance, greatly increases compliance expected by themselves and others.

- Demonstrations of control over the victim's fate, removal of free will and proving knowledge of the supposedly unknowable.

Degradation:

- Hurls the subject down to the bottom of the hierarchy of needs

- Demeaning punishments, taunts, deprivation of privacy, in this case controlled self-humiliation

Perception Control:

- Forces intense thought and introspection, locks attention onto their situation.

- Monotonous food, lack of movement/control/anything to do, situational isolation.

 

 

Even without the ability to force them into the easy road, I still have all the right tools for the old-fashioned kinds of brainwashing. It will require micro-managing them, but I intend to take them in chunks regardless. No point taking the whole planet in one step. Each person I take control of will begin a countdown of inevitability. In time, they will be reformed, regardless of their willpower, with only the occasional need for reinforcing punishment, with the goal of eventually removing the need for them at all. 

No way you'll have time to do that to the entire planet in a single human lifetime. Even assuming that 80% of people will cooperate willingly and continue to be good afterwards, without brainwashing, that's still nearly a billion and a half people. At a rate of one brainwashing per minute on average, with 24/7 brainwashing, it'll take more than 2600 years to brainwash them all. You aren't immortal.

 

Basically, this is scope insensitivity. It's difficult for human brains to comprehend such vast numbers. So when you picture yourself doing this, you're imagining doing it to one person (or maybe a few), and imagining that working. But there are so many people that it will never work.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Shaggai

[Observer]

That would be assuming an inability to brainwash multiple people at once. As it turns out, I have that opportunity. Keeping tabs and grouping should allow me to apply similar tactics to multiple people simultaneously through puppetry. Historically, dictators have been able to brainwash entire populations with nothing more than general tactics applied to the entire population. With the extra knowledge given to me with telepathy, tons of extra options are opened up and a unique opportunity for singling out targets and breaking willpower in record time. I'm confident I could pull it off, even in that scenario's limitations.

 

Edit: Well, I see Moogle's name down there. This is about to get ugly.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Observer

[Shaggai]

That would be assuming an inability to brainwash multiple people at once. As it turns out, I have that opportunity. Keeping tabs and grouping should allow me to apply similar tactics to multiple people simultaneously through puppetry. Historically, dictators have been able to brainwash entire populations with nothing more than general tactics applied to the entire population. With the extra knowledge given to me with telepathy, tons of extra options are opened up and a unique opportunity for singling out targets and breaking willpower in record time. I'm confident I could pull it off, even in that scenario's limitations.

 

Edit: Well, I see Moogle's name down there. This is about to get ugly.

You can brainwash them all, at a rate of 40 per minute? That's how fast you would need to do it to get it done in around 70 years.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Shaggai

[Observer]

Well, according to material I actually happen to have laying around my house because of reasons, an entire nation can and has been brainwashed in something around 60 years, give or mostly take, as this is the worst case scenario, something I won't be facing. Simply apply the widespread demoralization and destabilization tactics globally to all who need it and maybe a lot of those who do not. I have it on good word from various dictatorships that this is very effective and not nearly as time-consuming as you might think.

 

EDIT: Oooh, there's a soviet interview series online that's actually about the kind of tactics I'm talking about. I'll link it if I finish it and think it's relevant enough.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Observer

[Shaggai]

Well, according to material I actually happen to have laying around my house because of reasons, an entire nation can and has been brainwashed in something around 60 years, give or mostly take, as this is the worst case scenario, something I won't be facing. Simply apply the widespread demoralization and destabilization tactics globally to all who need it and maybe a lot of those who do not. I have it on good word from various dictatorships that this is very effective and not nearly as time-consuming as you might think.

Until you die and the magic powers that held your empire together are gone. At which point your successor will likely have to deal with massive revolts all across the world. Brainwashing works to an extent, but you won't be able to brainwash everyone. Furthermore, you've now gone so far as to have lost sight of your original point. The benefits of eradicating crime are vastly outweighed by the detriments of the "global demoralization and destabilization" tactics that you're proposing to use.

 

Besides, even if you manage to brainwash everyone without harming them, even while you're alive this won't work. You can't micromanage everything, so you'll need a massive bureaucracy. You think that's not going to be corrupt? The world will likely end up in an even worse state than it is now.

 

Of course, all of this is assuming that you manage to get to this point without being assassinated. You can't use your magic powers against someone if you don't know that they're there. Hide a couple snipers in buildings in a crowded city you'll be passing through, and you're dead. You can't use telepathy on them, because you don't know they're there (and if you tried using it on everybody in the vicinity, it still wouldn't work because there are too many people). Or set up a bomb in your vehicle while you're sleeping and detonate it remotely when you get in. There are countless ways to manage it, especially with the resources of a major government.

[Observer]

To the first paragraph, all I really have to say is that when I say "demoralization", I mean "If you aren't contributing, you lose free will". That is a very demoralizing thought, and is generally a good way to keep somebody in line. Because free will is good. Destabilization means, in this case, yanking out all the pieces I don't need, yanking out all of their pieces they depend on in so many ways, and then filling it up with the totally dependable meat sacks who are either good people to begin with or weren't before but are now. It's basically terrorism but towards a more constructive and slightly more specific level.

 

As for micromanagement, when I first begin I won't really need it. As I expand, I should ideally have one or two brainwashed people around to help me out, and as I succeed in correcting more and more people, I'll have more and more helpers, though I really shouldn't need all that many. The small numbers will greatly contribute to my ability to fulfill the omnipotent/omniscient part of reinforcement, and allow me to weed out corruption with ease. Micromanaging won't be as much an issue as it may sound. I won't be able to use tactics of much specificity past a certain point, but general tactics along the lines of lack of control, isolation, and more are universal, and can simply be done almost by default.

 

And finally, the ever-present threat of assassination. Assuming I can just scan nearby minds for certain thoughts and patterns, snipers won't be an issue. Assuming this isn't possible, constant, random travel and change of appearance will have already been a part of the strategy from the start, a wave of control would help narrow down the number of minds I need to look through at all times, and basic military VIP procedure should be a great help in shutting down other attempts. Above this all, the combination of spotsearch mindreading and a team of expendable puppets should combine with all other factors, stated or otherwise, to keep me safe from attack. And in all honesty, the majority of assassination attempts will be coming from the government, and I'm already considering coming after me a "dumb move" to be treated like all others. Frankly I'm wondering how they'll get my face, considering the inevitable disguise and likely surgical changes, without me noticing and disposing of them. As long as I keep anybody from truly knowing or being able to target what they think is me, I should be fine.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Observer