Feruchemy in AofL *Spoilers*

[washer]

It's been a bit since I've read the Mistborn trilogy, but I'm starting on Alloy of Law now. It seems there are a lot of Feruchemical Mistings, but no one with the full complement of powers. Is there a reason for this? With Allomancy, it was because every generation was further away from those who had originally consumed Larasium, but even so, Mistborns weren't unknown, just uncommon. It makes sense that by AofL it'd be gone, cuz Spook was the only Mistborn left. Meanwhile, I was under the impression that every Feruchemist in the Mistborn trilogy had access to all the metals. Is it just because all the characters with Feruchemy in AofL aren't full-blooded Terrismen, and therefore would have the abilities bred outta them after a few generations?

Also, why were Terrismen the only people with Feruchemical abilities?

As a side note, how the heck would you fill an electrum metalmind? The second you went to, you'd wanna quit.

[Kurkistan]

I imagine that Brandon (I mean Harmony, ahem) made the choice to dilute Feruchemy down to Ferrings because full Feruchemists are ridiculously powerful, especially if you guarantee that any "Twinborn" in this case will be able to compound something. Breaking Feruchemy down into Ferrings also allows for far more variety and an in-depth look at the application of the different Feruchemical powers.

Just like we saw much more of the applications of Steelpushes and storing/tapping Weight with Wax than we did with those powers in Mistborn, all of the combinations of powers that we see can be explored to their fullest potential by limiting them. Much like Brandon made the decision to create Mistings in the original trilogy in order to allow for and examine "specialists," so it is now with Ferrings.

As to overpowered Feruchemists: just imagine a Wayne with the full range of Feruchemical powers - Compounding Bendalloy so that he never has to eat (useful, if not combat-practical), tapping and storing speed, strength, weight, and his senses as well as health, and basically turning into an unstoppable machine of destruction.

Wayne is already extremely competent in the status quo, but he is still vulnerable: we still believe that he can be in serious danger, or outmatched in a fight (as with the Koloss-blooded Thug). You take away that danger when you overpower him.

Allomancy/Feruchemy have always been genetic, so that's just how the cookie crumbles.

I imagine that you could keep enough Determination to stay on track while storing it, much like you reserve enough Health to not die when storing it.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Kurkistan

[happyman]

I believe Brandon stated that the reason for the dilution of powers was because full Feruchemists were bred out of the population, first by TLR, and then by the Inquisitors under Ruin's influence. Ferings had existed before, but full Feruchemists were more common. Now the trait has been diluted, so single Ferichemical abilities are more common.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

On a related note: do we know whether any full Feruchemists exist now? Feruchemy still seems fairly concentrated in Terris, which in turn seems to be fairly secretive, so the book doesn't even mention them as legends, but that same isolation might make for a more concentrated breeding population than Allomancers have.

I suppose that, given the incredible power of a full Feruchemist (maybe we should just call these "Sages," just as we use Mistborn instead of "Full Allomancer"?), it's most likely that they'll be gone, or at least absurdly rare, now. I simply cannot help wondering.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Kurkistan]

On a related note: do we know whether any full Feruchemists exist now? Feruchemy still seems fairly concentrated in Terris, which in turn seems to be fairly secretive, so the book doesn't even mention them as legends, but that same isolation might make for a more concentrated breeding population than Allomancers have.

I suppose that, given the incredible power of a full Feruchemist (maybe we should just call these "Sages," just as we use Mistborn instead of "Full Allomancer"?), it's most likely that they'll be gone, or at least absurdly rare, now. I simply cannot help wondering.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

Wax isn't a definitive source as far as secretive Terrismen go, but he does think to himself: "One Allomantic power, one Feruchemical power. That was all a man could have" (pg 32).

As for "Sage" for full Feruchemists, I've always just thought of them as Keepers, since being a Feruchemist in the original trilogy was synonymous with being a Keeper. Since there apparently aren't going to be any more full Feruchemists, then I think that that association will remain basically valid. The only other Feruchemist of the old sort that we would ever talk about is TLR.

[Chaos]

I believe Brandon stated that the reason for the dilution of powers was because full Feruchemists were bred out of the population, first by TLR, and then by the Inquisitors under Ruin's influence. Ferings had existed before, but full Feruchemists were more common. Now the trait has been diluted, so single Ferichemical abilities are more common.

I don't remember that Ferrings had existed before, but yeah, that makes sense.

Feruchemy was diluted was because they, by necessity, had to breed more from outside the Terris population. Throughout history the Terris population remained insular in that way, preferring to be with one of their own. Now that there's more spread, the powers splintered just like Allomancy.

[fyodor]

The Ars Arcanum kind of suggests that some feruchemists might be around. It says that Feruchemists with access to only one power are "common" as opposed to saying that they're the only kind that exist. It may just be vague language, though.

http://books.google.com/books?id=34fV6RKOFpQC&lpg=PP1&dq=alloy%20of%20law&pg=PA332#v=onepage&q=feruchemy&f=false

It also says that the Terris community kind of keeps to itself so it's possible that there are full Feruchemists that just aren't widely known, notwithstanding what Wax thinks.

On a related note: do we know whether any full Feruchemists exist now? Feruchemy still seems fairly concentrated in Terris, which in turn seems to be fairly secretive, so the book doesn't even mention them as legends, but that same isolation might make for a more concentrated breeding population than Allomancers have.

I suppose that, given the incredible power of a full Feruchemist (maybe we should just call these "Sages," just as we use Mistborn instead of "Full Allomancer"?), it's most likely that they'll be gone, or at least absurdly rare, now. I simply cannot help wondering.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[fyodor]

I don't remember that Ferrings had existed before, but yeah, that makes sense.

Feruchemy was diluted was because they, by necessity, had to breed more from outside the Terris population. Throughout history the Terris population remained insular in that way, preferring to be with one of their own. Now that there's more spread, the powers splintered just like Allomancy.

Also, all the living Feruchemists, including children were killed in WoA, so even among the remaining Terrismen, the genetic potential for Feruchemy was weak.

Edited November 21, 2011 by fyodor

[happyman]

I don't remember if Brandon explicitly stated that Ferings existed before, but it makes sense as a working hypothesis. It's just that with full Feruchemists around, the powers would probably seem pretty low-key.

[twinborn97]

If a Feruchemist stored a whole bunch of an attribute in his/her metalminds in like a couple seconds then stopped, wouldn't that be easier than storing a little for a long time?

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Maybe, but there's only so much you can store that way. Supposing you store all of you weight (and thus begin to drift slightly into the air) for fifteen seconds, then stop. You can have 15 seconds at 200% weight. Now, suppose that you go around at 75% weight for two hours. Even with some energy loss, you probably have at least 10 minutes at 200% weight.

And with things like Strength, Physical/Mental Speed, and Health, you could kill yourself by storing too much at once. Generally, it's best to store as much as you can spare, for as long as possible, but in the end, a little all te time for several days will be much more than a ton for a short time.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Wispsy]

I don't think there is energy loss

[happyman]

I don't think there is energy loss

According to Sazed, Feruchemy obeys the law of diminishing returns; the more quickly you tap something, the more of it you lose. Being 50 times as strong for 2 minutes requires much more than 49 times your own total strength to have been stored.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

3) And this is more towards the whole physics stuff, but is Feruchemy really balanced? If it gives diminishing returns, wouldn't this end up as a net loss of power?

3) It doesn't diminish. Or, well, it does--but only if you compound it. You get 1 for 1 back, but compounding the power requires an expenditure of the power itself. For instance, if you are weak for one hour, you can gain the lost strength for one hour. But that's not really that much strength. After all, you probably weren't as weak as zero people during that time. So if you want to be as strong as two men, you couldn't do it for a full hour. You'd have to spend some energy to compound, then spend the compounded energy itself.

In more mathematical terms, let's say you spend one hour at 50% strength. You could then spend one hour at 150% strength, or perhaps 25 min at 200% strength, or maybe 10min at 250% strength. Each increment is harder, and therefore 'strains' you more and burns your energy more quickly. And since most Feruchemists don't store at 50% strength, but instead at something like 80% strength (it feels like much more when they do it, but you can't really push the body to that much forced weakness without risking death) you can burn through a few day's strength in a very short time if you aren't careful.

I know it's a little confusing how he uses the word "compound" here, but he's clearly using it in a more general sense, not talking about burning Metalminds. If you use Feruchemical power at a greater rate than you stored it, some energy is lost in transfer.

Interestingly enough, I think this means that a Keeper might actually want to store 100% of an attribute sometimes, even though it might cost other attributes to do so (for example; storing 100% of your strength, even though you now must tap Health to avoid your body literally being crushed by its own weight, or storing 100% of Physical Speed, even though you'll need to tap things like Breath and Energy to not die, now that your heart has stopped*). A few seconds or minutes worth of 100% storage could mean just slightly more yield in those cases where you're tapping for a huge amount at once. Still, most of the time, small investments pay off.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

*In fact, that might be a really useful trick, to make people think you're dead, though you want to have the Metalminds imbedded in your body such that people don't just remove them.