Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted December 6, 2022 Posted December 6, 2022 We see dead eye spren. But they are not necessarily dead spren. Can a spren be killed further than dead eye? Are spren pure investiture? Does investiture only stem from the spiritual realm making spren pure cognitive forms directly from the spiritual but something funky happens to keep them from passing into less invested physical world? Is the spiritual realm a place that can be visited and returned from? Could biochromatic breath be used to awaken a dead eye spren or make a pseudo lifeless version of it? And would that break the bond that may be had in the physical world? 1
Chandlerhimself Posted December 6, 2022 Posted December 6, 2022 Yes they can be killed further. I believe spren are pure investure. Investure can be in any of the 3 realms and I don't think it is created as much as it is recycled. I believe we have seen glimpses of the spiritual realm, but I don't think you can physically go there like you can the cognitive realm. Also invested things resist other investure, so trying to awaken a dead blade may not work. However with enough breathes it might be possible.
Werewolff Studios he/him Posted December 6, 2022 Posted December 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: We see dead eye spren. But they are not necessarily dead spren. Can a spren be killed further than dead eye? As @Chandlerhimself has said, spren can be killed further. We see this at the end of ROW with Moash and Anti-Investiture. 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Are spren pure investiture? Does investiture only stem from the spiritual realm making spren pure cognitive forms directly from the spiritual but something funky happens to keep them from passing into less invested physical world? Is the spiritual realm a place that can be visited and returned from? Spren are, by definition, splinters of one or more Shards. They are pure lumps of Investiture, shaped by the cognitive ideals and understandings of mortals, which is why they mostly exist in the Cognitive Realm. Technically speaking, Investiture itself transcends the three realms, as it's the 'building blocks' of the cosmere. It's more Spiritual then anything because the Spiritual Realm exists over the top of both Physcial and Cognitive Realms and isn't reliant on time. This is why it can be glimpsed by people, but not visited. 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Could biochromatic breath be used to awaken a dead eye spren or make a pseudo lifeless version of it? And would that break the bond that may be had in the physical world? We don't know exactly how the break occurs to create a deadeye spren, but they are still bound by their old Oaths. Brandon has mentioned the following regarding Stormlight, which parallels Breath in Investiture terms. Quote Questioner The dead shardblades, could you possibly get Stormlight into them to reawaken them? Brandon Sanderson Dead shardblade could you pump enough Stormlight into them? That alone would not be enough. Questioner So you would have to find someone to re-swear with oaths? Brandon Sanderson There is something broken on the Spiritual Realm because of the broken oath and simple Stormlight will not fix that. Questioner So say-- Brandon Sanderson If the person were still alive and could re-swear the oath then yes. Questioner [...] the Spiritual Realm? Brandon Sanderson It is not outside the realm of reason but it would be very very very difficult. Firefight release party (Jan. 5, 2015) Hope that helps!
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted December 6, 2022 Author Posted December 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Werewolff Studios said: As @Chandlerhimself has said, spren can be killed further. We see this at the end of ROW with Moash and Anti-Investiture. Spren are, by definition, splinters of one or more Shards. They are pure lumps of Investiture, shaped by the cognitive ideals and understandings of mortals, which is why they mostly exist in the Cognitive Realm. Technically speaking, Investiture itself transcends the three realms, as it's the 'building blocks' of the cosmere. It's more Spiritual then anything because the Spiritual Realm exists over the top of both Physcial and Cognitive Realms and isn't reliant on time. This is why it can be glimpsed by people, but not visited. We don't know exactly how the break occurs to create a deadeye spren, but they are still bound by their old Oaths. Brandon has mentioned the following regarding Stormlight, which parallels Breath in Investiture terms. Hope that helps! I have heard some theories on Adolin perhaps healing back his shard via speaking some oaths in the future. It is not the original radiant who would have to speak the oaths again then right? Syl was also a radiant spren pre kaladin but if memory serves right the difference between her and the dead eyes is that her radiant was killed rather than abandoning their oaths. I wonder how you imbue a dead eye with more investiture. Biochromatic breath via commands seems like the easiest way. But I guess there are others as well. Would progression healing channeled to a dead eye blade via some fabrial be possible or would you need a radiant in the Cognitive realm channeling progression into the dead eye? Like wise would any surge that allows you to shove investiture into an item or thing (are spren more thing than person?) be a potential highway of investiture to reconstitute a dead eye? 1
Werewolff Studios he/him Posted December 6, 2022 Posted December 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I have heard some theories on Adolin perhaps healing back his shard via speaking some oaths in the future. It is not the original radiant who would have to speak the oaths again then right? I don't think we're fully aware of the exact process Adolin's using to heal Maya - he hasn't spoken any Oaths thus far, but he has established a capital 'C' Connection with her. Perhaps him swearing Edgedancer Oaths could increase the rate of healing, but at this stage we simply don't know to what extent. Relevant WOB below: Quote Kaladin al'Thor I noticed my last time reading Words of Radiance that there were several times-- vines that were on Adolin's shardblade as he summoned it. So I was wondering if maybe the Radiant who used it had was an Edgedancer? Brandon Sanderson You are right. Kaladin al'Thor You mentioned before that it would be possible to revive a dead shard[blade], but it would be very difficult-- Brandon Sanderson Very difficult. Kaladin al'Thor Like I think what you said is that it would have to be the same person that broke the bond? Brandon Sanderson That would be the-- Yeah. Kaladin al'Thor So if it was an Edgedancer's blade if he made those same oaths could potentially he… Brandon Sanderson That would most likely not be enough. Something else would have to happen. Good guess though. 13 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Syl was also a radiant spren pre kaladin but if memory serves right the difference between her and the dead eyes is that her radiant was killed rather than abandoning their oaths. Yep, that's what's going on with her. 14 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I wonder how you imbue a dead eye with more investiture. Biochromatic breath via commands seems like the easiest way. But I guess there are others as well. Would progression healing channeled to a dead eye blade via some fabrial be possible or would you need a radiant in the Cognitive realm channeling progression into the dead eye? Like wise would any surge that allows you to shove investiture into an item or thing (are spren more thing than person?) be a potential highway of investiture to reconstitute a dead eye? I think you're right on Biochromatic Breath being the easiest way to imbue the spren with extra Investiture, though we don't know how this would manifest. As Breath tends to have more Physical Effects than Cognitive Ones, it might simply make them manifest more fully in the Physical Realm. Or it might not effect them at all, as a Spren already is Investiture, rather than a mortal which can hold Investiture. Hard to say. I don't think Progression healing would have much effect though, unfortunately. Most cosmere healing returns you to your purest Spiritual self, filtered through the Cognitive lens. As a deadeye spren has something broken in their spiritweb, the healing likely wouldn't be able to mend it (kind of like Kaladin's scars). Maybe it's kind of like a device with a broken electrical chord. You could pump as much electricity into it as you want, but the device won't ever work properly. 1
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted December 6, 2022 Author Posted December 6, 2022 55 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said: I don't think we're fully aware of the exact process Adolin's using to heal Maya - he hasn't spoken any Oaths thus far, but he has established a capital 'C' Connection with her. Perhaps him swearing Edgedancer Oaths could increase the rate of healing, but at this stage we simply don't know to what extent. Relevant WOB below: Yep, that's what's going on with her. I think you're right on Biochromatic Breath being the easiest way to imbue the spren with extra Investiture, though we don't know how this would manifest. As Breath tends to have more Physical Effects than Cognitive Ones, it might simply make them manifest more fully in the Physical Realm. Or it might not effect them at all, as a Spren already is Investiture, rather than a mortal which can hold Investiture. Hard to say. I don't think Progression healing would have much effect though, unfortunately. Most cosmere healing returns you to your purest Spiritual self, filtered through the Cognitive lens. As a deadeye spren has something broken in their spiritweb, the healing likely wouldn't be able to mend it (kind of like Kaladin's scars). Maybe it's kind of like a device with a broken electrical chord. You could pump as much electricity into it as you want, but the device won't ever work properly. This idea that a spren is investiture makes me curious about how quickly they replenish their investiture when it is damaged. If a leecher were to clap a living spren blade and then leech it would it be leeching the stormlight the radiant is using or would it be killing the spren directly? I know WoB says a leecher leeching Nightblood would die but Nightblood is a totally different creation than a spren and he works in a totally different way for how he destroys so I feel like the interaction with a sprenblade would likely be a lot different.
Werewolff Studios he/him Posted December 6, 2022 Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: This idea that a spren is investiture makes me curious about how quickly they replenish their investiture when it is damaged. If a leecher were to clap a living spren blade and then leech it would it be leeching the stormlight the radiant is using or would it be killing the spren directly? I know WoB says a leecher leeching Nightblood would die but Nightblood is a totally different creation than a spren and he works in a totally different way for how he destroys so I feel like the interaction with a sprenblade would likely be a lot different. I think it comes down to the sheer amount of Investiture. Truespren that make up Shardblades are wickedly invested, so I reckon the Leecher would burn through their metal before making much of a dent in the Spren proper. Relevant WOB below: Quote Questioner If you were a Leecher, could you destroy a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson I'm going to RAFO that for now, let's just say that it would be incredibly difficult if it were possible, and I'm not going to even say if it is. But that kind of power... Questioner Let's just say they were burning duralumin as well. Brandon Sanderson Let's just say that the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard. And Investiture resists other forms of Investiture, so. Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016) Not sure about lesser spren though... Edited December 6, 2022 by Werewolff Studios
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