Spiritual Feruchemical Powers

[Chaos]

I was going to post this in the Alloy of Law Broadsheet topic, but I figured, why not make a topic where people can speculate away?

Remember how in the broadsheet, Allomancer Jak's Feruchemist stores a strange "connection" with the koloss? It turns out that this is not crazy bullcrap.

We interviewed CraftyGames tonight for the Mistborn Adventure Game (which, by the way, will reveal the Feruchemical powers). Anyways, they said rather offhand that one of the classes of Feruchemical metals are Spiritual metals.

Later, I asked them what one Feruchemical power was, and they said "connection". They didn't elaborate, nor did they tell us what metal it was. They did say this was not the most mind-blowing ability.

(I'll get the interview up soon, but I wanted to say that immediately, since this is super important.)

So. Speculation time! I'm assuming that the Spiritual metals would correspond to the four Enhancement ones. Either way, we have a lot of Feruchemical powers to start theorizing about--and not much time remaining, since the e-book of the RPG comes out on the 25th. What do you think other Spiritual metals would do?

[ulyssessword]

My guesses (with explanations):

1. Connection (given) Tapping Connection allows you to feel strong empathy to all around you. This does not directly affect others, but allows you to act in an appropriate way to affect them instead. Storing it makes you inconsiderate of others' emotions, and results in severe narcissism.

2. Soul sensing (Warbreaker's Lifesense) Basically, you can sense more things (spiritually) while tapping this, and are somewhat oblivious to anything with a soul (eg. a person, maybe animals) while storing it.

3. Presence Changes you to have a stronger force of personality and, as well as making you stand out from a crowd while tapping. Makes you dull, dismissed, and forgotten while storing. Very good for distractions, sneaking, and forming cults.

4. Chronesthesia (Wikipedia link) Tapping this gives you insight into a moment in the future, but only accounting for things that you already know/can figure out (it isn't a god metal). Storing it sends your mind back in time, allowing you to re-experience a past moment and form new memories from it. Somewhat overlaps with Copper for memories.

It was difficult coming up with three new spiritual attributes that worked for both storing and for tapping metalminds. Some of my ideas that I couldn't work out well enough: out-of-body experiences (vs. very-inside-of-body experiences?), becoming incorporeal (vs. being supercorporeal?), Willpower (too mental, also it would be next to impossible to store), Wisdom/judgment/discretion (again, too mental).

Edited October 13, 2011 by ulyssessword

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

HOLY CARP. I am fishing out because I want to know about this so bad.[/fish puns] Get on that interview, Chaos! SHOO!

[Windrunner]

Later, I asked them what one Feruchemical power was, and they said "connection". They didn't elaborate, nor did they tell us what metal it was. They did say this was not the most mind-blowing ability.

It's kind of ridiculous how excited I am that all the Feruchemical powers will soon be revealed! Especially since I didn't originally think I would like Mistborn. The fact that this ability isn't the most awesome of the remaining Feruchemical powers is intriguing. I wonder if the emotion storing that Brandon was a possibility would fit under the Spiritual category?

Also is there a way to get a copy of this e-book without buying the RPG? I don't have the money or the inclination to buy the full game but I am also so bummed I'm missing the Kelsier short story and the new content.

[Chaos]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is ludicrously excited about the new Feruchemical powers.

My guesses (with explanations):

1. Connection (given) Tapping Connection allows you to feel strong empathy to all around you. This does not directly affect others, but allows you to act in an appropriate way to affect them instead. Storing it makes you inconsiderate of others' emotions, and results in severe narcissism.

2. Soul sensing (Warbreaker's Lifesense) Basically, you can sense more things (spiritually) while tapping this, and are somewhat oblivious to anything with a soul (eg. a person, maybe animals) while storing it.

3. Presence Changes you to have a stronger force of personality and, as well as making you stand out from a crowd while tapping. Makes you dull, dismissed, and forgotten while storing. Very good for distractions, sneaking, and forming cults.

4. Chronesthesia (Wikipedia link) Tapping this gives you insight into a moment in the future, but only accounting for things that you already know/can figure out (it isn't a god metal). Storing it sends your mind back in time, allowing you to re-experience a past moment and form new memories from it. Somewhat overlaps with Copper for memories.

It was difficult coming up with three new spiritual attributes that worked for both storing and for tapping metalminds. Some of my ideas that I couldn't work out well enough: out-of-body experiences (vs. very-inside-of-body experiences?), becoming incorporeal (vs. being supercorporeal?), Willpower (too mental, also it would be next to impossible to store), Wisdom/judgment/discretion (again, too mental).

These are all very well thought-out. (Also, you made me laugh with that "forming cults" line.) I have no idea if these are right, but I sure think they seem reasonable.

It's kind of ridiculous how excited I am that all the Feruchemical powers will soon be revealed! Especially since I didn't originally think I would like Mistborn. The fact that this ability isn't the most awesome of the remaining Feruchemical powers is intriguing. I wonder if the emotion storing that Brandon was a possibility would fit under the Spiritual category?

Also is there a way to get a copy of this e-book without buying the RPG? I don't have the money or the inclination to buy the full game but I am also so bummed I'm missing the Kelsier short story and the new content.

Emotion storing would be cool, especially if you could select which emotions to store (just as you select which memories to store in copperminds). It has a nice dichotomy with Allomancy, in that with Soothing and Rioting, you can never influence your own emotions, but maybe in Feruchemy you could.

That said, "Spiritual" kind of gives a strange context, so it's anyone's guess. Spiritual may give us more information on the Spiritual Realm. Crafty did say that Brandon explained to them some Realmatics so that stuff would be consistent with the greater cosmere's magics. (Don't take this the wrong way, though: all of these Feruchemical powers are canonical, and there's surely a chart of them in Alloy of Law.) It was entertaining, actually, because they didn't remember the word "Realmatics", so we had to remind them Also, they had no idea about the third Mistborn trilogy. Good times.

As for where you could get a copy of it... you'll have to buy it, I'm afraid. I'm not a huge tabletop gamer, because I don't know the right group of people in my area to do that. However, I really wanted to scrounge up the money for it.

I was going to paraphrase Brandon's answer on the subject, but I may as well just paste it. From the signing with Brandon and Peter Orullian:

Just real quick: the short that’s in the RPG, the short story. Is that ever going to be available outside the RPG?

Maybe eventually. The idea is that we gave it to them exclusively for a certain period; I don’t know how long the period is. It’s probably a couple of years. The idea being: the short story is there as a goodie for the RPG. You know, the RPG guys, RPGs are not big sellers. These are an independent company making it because they love it. It’s not their day job. They all have other day jobs. Though, we wanted to put something in there that would attract people’s attention to look at it and be interested in it. They will eventually, probably be available elsewhere. If you can read other languages, it’ll probably be in the translations of Alloy of Law. But that’s only if you want to read it in translation.

I personally think it is a good deal (but then again I paid money for the limited edition Tables of Allomantic Metals...) but these dudes are great fun. I feel really good by helping support them. There's also art from Isaac (I believe the spiffy new Feruchemical table will be included, which is a bit different from the Allomantic variety in shape) and a lot from Inkthinker, too.

On the other hand, the ebook will come out on the 25th, and rest assured, you will see a lot of coverage from it on my end. Important stuff will surely be summarized on the wiki. But yeah, to get the story, you'll need to buy the thing itself.

[Windrunner]

I personally think it is a good deal (but then again I paid money for the limited edition Tables of Allomantic Metals...) but these dudes are great fun. I feel really good by helping support them. There's also art from Isaac (I believe the spiffy new Feruchemical table will be included, which is a bit different from the Allomantic variety in shape) and a lot from Inkthinker, too.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I want this game. I saw the drawing of Kelsier fighting that Inquisitor and there are no words to describe how cool that looked! I wish I had enough talent to make a picture like that. I can still get the hardcover when it comes out, even though I didn't preorder it, right? Anyway if I had been a Sanderson fan back when they still sold the limited edition Table of Allomantic Metals then I would have bought one too.

Getting back on the topic of Spiritual Feruchemical powers, I wonder if you stored enough connection, could you take over a human without any Hemalurgic spikes in them? I bet you could, and think about a Feruchemist taking control of multiple other Metalborn. He could end up with more power then the Lord Ruler and his group of Inquisitors because there would be no Hemalurgic Decay to weaken their powers. Also, how epic would emotion storing be? I imagine it would work similar to a tinmind, with separate emotions being stored in individual metalminds. You could be storing fear while tapping courage!

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

I have an ARC of AoL and it has the illustration of the Feruchemical table, but I was disappointed that it didn't have any information. Can't wait for the release!

My guess is that the only way to seriously affect a normal human with Connection tapping would be if you're Compounding. Now I just want to know which metal it is! I doubt that you could totally control someone, though.

[Chaos]

I have an ARC of AoL and it has the illustration of the Feruchemical table, but I was disappointed that it didn't have any information. Can't wait for the release!

My guess is that the only way to seriously affect a normal human with Connection tapping would be if you're Compounding. Now I just want to know which metal it is! I doubt that you could totally control someone, though.

FYI, Silus, that Feruchemical table doesn't have the symbols in the right order. It's a mock-up to show how the shape is different. (It's pretty, isn't it?)

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

SO PRETTY. WANT POSTER.

[ulyssessword]

New idea:

Connection -> Connection to Sazed (or Ati, Leras, Preservation, or Ruin, depending) -> become better at the Metallic Arts?

Pretty sure that this could not work, as anyone who would figure it out could potentially become quite powerful.

I think that Emotion storing (which seems more Mental to me) would need to be very constrained, or else it would break the careful balance required of Feruchemy. Most emotions have opposites as they are commonly described (happy/sad, love/hate, like/dislike, fear/courage, suspicion/credulity). This would result in the feruchemist getting nearly infinite amounts of an emotion by storing its opposite (It's not really that simple, but it's a close approximation). Allowing practically free benefits goes against the mechanics of Feruchemy.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

I have the feeling that if you can store emotions, that each one stores a significantly different one, such that you can't really store the opposite.

[whynaut]

Well this one has been answered. The Feruochemist was a Duralumin or Connecter Ferring who can store essentially friendship into his metalmind

[happyman]

Well this one has been answered. The Feruochemist was a Duralumin or Connecter Ferring who can store essentially friendship into his metalmind

Yes, and this means that the little article there wasn't completely made up. Not that it's necessarily true, but they incorporate elements of truth that apparently aren't common knowledge into it.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Is anyone else worried that Jak is going to get "brought into the tribe" by getting spiked and becoming a Koloss?

Obviously Sazed changed the way some of it works, otherwise people couldn't be "Koloss blooded", but do they still have spikes?

[name_here]

Read the broadsheet closely and you'll notice that he actually says that the Koloss claim they can turn others into Koloss, and are planning to do that to him. So presumably the old spikes still work.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

Though I doubt that new koloss could breed like the others.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

So, now that the book is out, we know that the new Feruchemical abilities are:

Chromium: Stores Fortune.

Nicrosil: Stores Investure.

Aluminum: Stores Identity.

Duralumin: Stores Connection.

Fortune seems to be luck. The implications of this are huge (what happens if someone empties years of accumulated luck?), but fairly understandable. And Connection is what the Terrisman uses in the Broadsheet. It seems really useful - you could fill the Metalmind to become very stealthy, probably with all the "no life sense" stuff that makes Drabs so hard to notice in Warbreaker, as well as people tending to write you off if they do see you, and then empty it again to make people instantly trust you.

The other two, though, we don't get any details on - apparently, the "writer" of the sections doesn't even think the sages in Terris understand what storing "investure" means. Speculation time!

So. Aluminum is "Identity," which is the Pulling equivalent of storing Connection. This seems somewhat straight-forward - when you fill it, you lose connection with yourself, and when you tap it, you become highly self-aware. I can see how the advantages of this would largely be spiritual: it might help you avoid emotional Allomancy, or something, but mostly, it could be a tool to put parts of yourself you do not want into a Metalmind, then throw that Metalmind away (or get the appropriate Gnat to burn it up). Since there is very little overlap in the magic systems of Mistborn, I can only assume that you do not lose memories of things you put into the Aluminummind, however, you simple lose any personal attachment to them. Spooky.

And then, there's "Investure," the Push to Fortune's Pull (or, if you like, the External Spiritual Push). Since Fortune is all about changing how outside factors affect you, it seems logical to me that Nicrosilminds (am I the only one who finds the Metalminds of more exotic metals make for really silly words?) store how much you can affect outside factors. No wonder even Terris sages don't understand it - that would be almost impossible to directly measure, or even see, the effects of. But it does give me the hilarious notion that someone who could both fill and burn Nicrosil would wind up the center of an ever-expanding force of "world-affectingness," not unlike a few boys I once heard of from the Two Rivers...

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Dahak]

And then, there's "Investure," the Push to Fortune's Pull (or, if you like, the External Spiritual Push). Since Fortune is all about changing how outside factors affect you, it seems logical to me that Nicrosilminds (am I the only one who finds the Metalminds of more exotic metals make for really silly words?) store how much you can affect outside factors. No wonder even Terris sages don't understand it - that would be almost impossible to directly measure, or even see, the effects of. But it does give me the hilarious notion that someone who could both fill and burn Nicrosil would wind up the center of an ever-expanding force of "world-affectingness," not unlike a few boys I once heard of from the Two Rivers...

I'm wondering based on the explanation of the 1/16th and the mists, if storing investiture would enable you to use your powers more effectively when tapped or since the only difference between ferring/misting and Feruchemist/Mistborn is level of connection to the power whether one could bootstrap to temporary full Feruchemist/Mistborn status based on investiture stored.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Huh. That entirely did not occur to me, but would be amazingly awesome if true.

[ulyssessword]

I'm wondering based on the explanation of the 1/16th and the mists, if storing investiture would enable you to use your powers more effectively when tapped or since the only difference between ferring/misting and Feruchemist/Mistborn is level of connection to the power whether one could bootstrap to temporary full Feruchemist/Mistborn status based on investiture stored.

Another question, would you have a very low limit on how much you could store at a time? This would be because if you are storing half of your investiture, you are giving up half of your ability to store it, reducing your efficiency.

This is also assuming that it isn't like Copper Feruchemy, where it removes it from you permanently when stored.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Though I doubt that new koloss could breed like the others.

Actually, I would assume the opposite. I doubt that Final Empire-era Koloss could have bred with humans, but since then they've been re-using spikes over and over again, they've been becoming more and more human (and, presumably, also weaker and less grow-taller-ey), which probably explains how they're interbreeding with humanity.

The fact that this interbreeding results in humans who have unusual abilities without any direct interaction with the Metallic Arts raises some entirely new questions, which I am not even certain how to phrase yet.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Emeralis00]

Actually, I would assume the opposite. I doubt that Final Empire-era Koloss could have bred with humans, but since then they've been re-using spikes over and over again, they've been becoming more and more human (and, presumably, also weaker and less grow-taller-ey), which probably explains how they're interbreeding with humanity.

The fact that this interbreeding results in humans who have unusual abilities without any direct interaction with the Metallic Arts raises some entirely new questions, which I am not even certain how to phrase yet.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

no, Sazed changed the Koloss so that they became an actual species.

[Aiken Frost]

Another question, would you have a very low limit on how much you could store at a time? This would be because if you are storing half of your investiture, you are giving up half of your ability to store it, reducing your efficiency.

This is also assuming that it isn't like Copper Feruchemy, where it removes it from you permanently when stored.

That makes me think: what if, to store investiture, you HAVE to have another power to store? And then you can give the metalmind to another person and he gains your power for the time you stored it? Then a purely Nicrosil Ferring would be a gnat-like ability, just like a Aluminum Misting. Or you could use it yourself and become a Twinborn of the metal you stored by that amount of time.

Both seems like interesting possibilities.

[Dahak]

Another question, would you have a very low limit on how much you could store at a time? This would be because if you are storing half of your investiture, you are giving up half of your ability to store it, reducing your efficiency.

That would be my thought, as far as feruchemy is concerned. I suspect a twinborn could store all his allomancy.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Since Investiture is a specific term, I wonder what other types of investiture is it capable of storing?

If given Breaths on Nalthis could you store them in your Nicrosilmind?