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enneagram types for different characters


discorat

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  • 1 year later...

I've recently discovered enneagram types and now I am fascinated by trying to categorize Sanderson characters.  

What I find interesting to do is to start by comparing Stormlight characters to the level 9 of health for each enneagram type,as each type is prone to one or two mental illnesses at that level, and many Stormlight characters have a pretty obvious mental illness they are battling.   It is surprising when the corresponding personality type also aligns with that characters fears and desires.  I'm not sure it always lines up well, but for a few characters, it seems to work out well enough that I wonder if Brandon Sanderson has studied enneagram types or if he is just that insightful as he develops characters. 

I think Shallan might actually be a 9.  She started out trying so hard to hold her family together while they were all falling apart at the seams.  When a 9 reaches level 9 on the healthiness scale, they tend toward multiple personality disorders.  9 s tend to disconnect from their feelings and problems, which Shallan does.   They also spend so much time being what other people need that they can be pretty unsure about who they are, also a good fit for Shallan.  

I think you could also make a decent argument for 5 too, but I think overall 9 is a better fit.

Kaladin is harder, maybe a 1???, with his moral compass being primarily focused on protecting people?  As a 1 progresses to unhealthy, they tend to be obsessive over the wrongdoings of others (like his attitude against light eyes).  At level 9 of unhealthy they can struggle with severe depression. 

I agree Dalinar is now a 1.  However, I think he was different when he was younger.  People aren't typically supposed to change enneagram types, but I think Cultivation's intervention provided a unique opportunity to do so.  So, I think young Dalinar was a 7 with a very strong wing 8.  His main motivation was seeking satisfaction (predominantly manifested in his pursuit of the The Thrill).  7s often don't find satisfaction, which fits Dalinar and his relationship with The Thrill.  At level 9 of healthiness, 7s struggle with addiction, in Dalinar's case, drinking.  As for the strong wing 8, when type 8 becomes is at level 9 of healthiness, they can become brutally destructive when they feel.threatened or betrayed.   Sounds like Dalinar.  

Adolin- maybe 2w3 or 3w2.  I haven't had much chance to think about it yet.  

 

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  • 4 months later...
On 2021-10-18 at 6:40 AM, Chemee said:

I've recently discovered enneagram types and now I am fascinated by trying to categorize Sanderson characters.  

What I find interesting to do is to start by comparing Stormlight characters to the level 9 of health for each enneagram type,as each type is prone to one or two mental illnesses at that level, and many Stormlight characters have a pretty obvious mental illness they are battling.   It is surprising when the corresponding personality type also aligns with that characters fears and desires.  I'm not sure it always lines up well, but for a few characters, it seems to work out well enough that I wonder if Brandon Sanderson has studied enneagram types or if he is just that insightful as he develops characters. 

I think Shallan might actually be a 9.  She started out trying so hard to hold her family together while they were all falling apart at the seams.  When a 9 reaches level 9 on the healthiness scale, they tend toward multiple personality disorders.  9 s tend to disconnect from their feelings and problems, which Shallan does.   They also spend so much time being what other people need that they can be pretty unsure about who they are, also a good fit for Shallan.  

I think you could also make a decent argument for 5 too, but I think overall 9 is a better fit.

Kaladin is harder, maybe a 1???, with his moral compass being primarily focused on protecting people?  As a 1 progresses to unhealthy, they tend to be obsessive over the wrongdoings of others (like his attitude against light eyes).  At level 9 of unhealthy they can struggle with severe depression. 

I agree Dalinar is now a 1.  However, I think he was different when he was younger.  People aren't typically supposed to change enneagram types, but I think Cultivation's intervention provided a unique opportunity to do so.  So, I think young Dalinar was a 7 with a very strong wing 8.  His main motivation was seeking satisfaction (predominantly manifested in his pursuit of the The Thrill).  7s often don't find satisfaction, which fits Dalinar and his relationship with The Thrill.  At level 9 of healthiness, 7s struggle with addiction, in Dalinar's case, drinking.  As for the strong wing 8, when type 8 becomes is at level 9 of healthiness, they can become brutally destructive when they feel.threatened or betrayed.   Sounds like Dalinar.  

Adolin- maybe 2w3 or 3w2.  I haven't had much chance to think about it yet.  

 

Dalinar is probably the easiest to place, haha. 

I feel like Kaladin would be a 2 more than 1 (yes this forum is one year old and i am revisiting it now) since I feel like 1's are more structurally about right and wrong, while 2's are more emotionally about being right and wrong. Kaladin doesn't really care as a whole if half of the world kills the other half, but he would care if two of his close friends kill eachother. This is just how i vibe with him. Hes like a mini-Dalinar, except the emotional part.

Shallan i put as 4 because of the 'not knowing who i am' part of fours, but she could be a nine as well, except i feel like she has too many strong opinions to be a nine, and she CAN pick sides. 

Youre right about adolin, hes probably a three.

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All right, I will weigh in with perhaps a different perspective. I thing lots of Brandon's character arcs can be summarized as a character who has a dominant type and a stong wing moving from one of those wings to the other. (I also subscribe to the theory that wings are always one of the adjacent numbers)

Dalinar type 8 (he is always described as a domineering man who runs over everyone to get what he wants)with a strong 7(constantly chasing the Thrill and alcohol) wing in his youth that moves to a 9 (focused on unity and much more reserved) wing 

Kaladin 1 (he holds everyone especially himself to an incredibly high moral standard and lashes out in his low moments at those he feels don't meet it) he has a strong 2 wing (shown by his focus on everyone elses needs, at the detriment of himself) he is moving, very slowly, to a 9 wing where he can accept failure and allow himself to do less.

Shallan, the 7est 7 who ever 7ed (all she does is run away form painful things, distracting herself by trying to do everything all at once. everything except deal with her issues) She starts with a 6 wing in her Father's house (terrified of everything and focused on keeping her family together) but quickly moves to an 8 (through Jasnah, Tyn and Mraize's influence)

Jasnah 5, I can imagine her starting as a 6w and moving to an 4w as she overcomes her paranoia and starts expressing herself more

Taravangian and extremally dysfunctional 2w3 (his martyr complex mixed with his ambition is terrifying) but I don't think he will grow to another wing he will just keep degenerating

Adolin 3 starts with a 4 wing and moves to a 2

I struggle to place Navani, maybe 3 or 6

Venli 4 with 3 wing (shown by her ambition) and moving to a 5w but not there yet

Tib

 

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POV characters:

Kaladin is hard to type, because of his mental state. So far I see him as a 2w1, he lives to serve, protect and help to a point of neglecting himself

Shallan is a type 7w6, with Veil being a 8w9 and Radiant a 1w9. It's curious because Shallan is such a stereotypical type 7 meme that her defense mechanism is to just shut every bad feelings she might have to a pont of developing other personalities LOL

Adolin can be a type 2w3, but not sure

Dalinar used to be an 8w7, but after losing his memories the void that left turned him into a 1w9

Renarin can be either 4w5 or 5w4, I need to see what is inside his mind first, we had only a few chapters from this POV

Navani seems to be a 3w2. She even seems to suffer the hard time finding her own identity and assumes social personas instead when she needs to get the rust done. She seems to be quite good ignoring her emergent emotions and thinking rationally like type 3 usually does

Jasnah is a text book 5w6, I don't even think there is much to discuss here

Lift is a 7w6 

Venli is an 7w8

Eshonai (RIP) was a 9w1, I loved her so much

Szeth is a type 6 in the maximum unhealthy level "Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders"

I believe Taravangian was a type 2w1, but his persona is some "evil" form is kind of heartless 5w6

Teft is... never paid enough attention on him. Type 4 I guess?

Moash is a type 8, I think wing 9

Lopen is another type 7w6

Rysn might be a type 3, not sure which wing though

Lirin is one of the most annoying 1w2 characters I've read. Made me think if I'm like that, because I'm a 1w2 too 

Rain is a type 4w5


I also speculate Hoid is a 5w4 disguised as 7w8    

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7 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

Szeth is a type 6 in the maximum unhealthy level "Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders"

I don't think Szeth is trying to escape punishment, he seems to want to be punished, and when no one else is doing it, he punishes himself.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re-reading ROW now

 

Venli is not a core 7, more inclined to 3 or 4.  I'm more inclined to type 4, because type 3 are usually better at faking. A unhealthy type 3 is more likely to show hyper narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies, like Gavilar:

Quote

Fearing failure and humiliation, they can be exploitative and opportunistic, covetous of the success of others, and willing to do "whatever it takes" to preserve the illusion of their superiority.

Venli during her flashbacks though looks a lot like this:

Quote

Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious.

And after that she went to even more unhealthy levels:

Quote

When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.

 

Edited by IcaroRibeiro
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  • 1 year later...
On 3/28/2022 at 6:56 AM, IcaroRibeiro said:

POV characters:

Kaladin is hard to type, because of his mental state. So far I see him as a 2w1, he lives to serve, protect and help to a point of neglecting himself

Shallan is a type 7w6, with Veil being a 8w9 and Radiant a 1w9. It's curious because Shallan is such a stereotypical type 7 meme that her defense mechanism is to just shut every bad feelings she might have to a pont of developing other personalities LOL

Adolin can be a type 2w3, but not sure

Dalinar used to be an 8w7, but after losing his memories the void that left turned him into a 1w9

Renarin can be either 4w5 or 5w4, I need to see what is inside his mind first, we had only a few chapters from this POV

Navani seems to be a 3w2. She even seems to suffer the hard time finding her own identity and assumes social personas instead when she needs to get the rust done. She seems to be quite good ignoring her emergent emotions and thinking rationally like type 3 usually does

Jasnah is a text book 5w6, I don't even think there is much to discuss here

Lift is a 7w6 

Venli is an 7w8

Eshonai (RIP) was a 9w1, I loved her so much

Szeth is a type 6 in the maximum unhealthy level "Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders"

I believe Taravangian was a type 2w1, but his persona is some "evil" form is kind of heartless 5w6

Teft is... never paid enough attention on him. Type 4 I guess?

Moash is a type 8, I think wing 9

Lopen is another type 7w6

Rysn might be a type 3, not sure which wing though

Lirin is one of the most annoying 1w2 characters I've read. Made me think if I'm like that, because I'm a 1w2 too 

Rain is a type 4w5


I also speculate Hoid is a 5w4 disguised as 7w8    

 

On 4/5/2022 at 7:33 PM, IcaroRibeiro said:

Re-reading ROW now

 

Venli is not a core 7, more inclined to 3 or 4.  I'm more inclined to type 4, because type 3 are usually better at faking. A unhealthy type 3 is more likely to show hyper narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies, like Gavilar:

Venli during her flashbacks though looks a lot like this:

And after that she went to even more unhealthy levels:

 

Okay sorry for coming in (after an entire year of being away again)(i study a lot)

I probably agree with venli being a 4 (i am a 4 myself and that might be why i defend her so much). However I have issues with Shallan being a 7 just because she fits as a 4 as well (and i'm also a lightweaver so i just make shallan a 4 so we can match)

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Hmm... Lotta interesting thoughts here.

Personally, I'm a 5w4 on the Enneagram, and I'm pretty darn certain Kaladin isn't a 5. I have no idea what he is, because nothing seems to fit him quite right, but I'm pretty confident that he's not a 5. 

Dalinar strikes me as being an 8, all the way through, both before and after Cultivation got at him. However, I think he's gotten considerably healthier since he met Cultivation. (Like... think a jump from level 9/totally unhealthy to level 2 or 1/pretty darn healthy indeed.)

Shallan is definitely either a 4 or a 9. Someone made a point earlier about her being a 9 because she's constantly running from conflict, and I agree that this is a big possibility. However, I'm also thinking 4 because 4's are all about identity, and Shallan has a crap ton of confusion about hers (I mean, 3 personalities? Really, girl? You don't think that's a bit too much?).

On 3/27/2022 at 10:56 PM, IcaroRibeiro said:

Jasnah is a text book 5w6, I don't even think there is much to discuss here

I agree; Jasnah is probably a 5w6, which is cool because it means we're both 5's, and I like Jasnah. Plus it would explain why I always want more POV chapters from her. (Come on, second half of Stormlight! I'm ready!)

I wonder if Moash is a particularly unhealthy 7? The emphasis on escaping pain sounds familiar... And in that case, if Moash is Kaladin's foil, maybe they're both 7's, and they're on different ends of the healthiness spectrum. Hmm.

On 3/27/2022 at 10:56 PM, IcaroRibeiro said:

Lift is a 7w6 

Yep. I agree. Lift is fun, 7's are fun, these two things match up.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/5/2023 at 5:25 PM, discorat said:

 

Okay sorry for coming in (after an entire year of being away again)(i study a lot)

I probably agree with venli being a 4 (i am a 4 myself and that might be why i defend her so much). However I have issues with Shallan being a 7 just because she fits as a 4 as well (and i'm also a lightweaver so i just make shallan a 4 so we can match)

Curious, I left this forum for almost a year and came back just a couple of days after your response

I understand why you think Shallan is a 4, but I argue she's not. Many traits and personality structures of a 4 are lacking here. First, she'seager to conform to society's standards and feels genuinely comfortable following them in a very vorin fashion. She's quite extroverted and not at all moody. Shallan didn't display vices types 4 often exhibits such as a tendency to melancholy, self-pity, and unhealthy levels of jealousy.

4 core fear is to have a lack of identity or significance. While she sometimes wonders who she genuinely is (partially because of her multiple personality disorder) her main fear looks to be deprived, in despair, or in pain. When she starts observing there will be a painful experience she shuts down her mind and tries to distract herself with hobbies, jokes and lies. 

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