Gavilar's Shardblade Was An Honorblade (Potential Spoilers)

[Smye]

Hear me out here:

 

At the beginning of WoK during Gavilar's assassination, Szeth notes that he has a choice between surgebinding and shardplate, that something about shardplate prevents/interferes with his surgebinding (likely specific to surgebinding granted by an honorblade as we see other KR surgebinding in shardplate in Dalinar's flashbacks). Gavilar always wore his plate while wielding his blade (on screen at least) and so would not be able to surgebind. I think it's likely he didn't even realize exactly what he had given the apparent conflict between plate and honorblade-surgebinding.

 

Also, when on the practice grounds training under Zahel in WoR, Kaladin hears no screams while holding and practicing with a blade similar in description to Gavilar's old blade. We know Kaladin is between oaths 2 and 3 at this point, and that he hasn't progressed any further during the full disadvantaged duel in which he first heard the screams when touching an enemy shardbearer's blade - so it's unlikely that during training he would not have heard screams if he were using a deadspren-blade. He also cannot use Syl as a blade yet as he hasn't given the third oath. This leaves only 2 options - he's using someone else's KR spren-blade (though this seems doubtful as I can't see a KR leaving their spren around a training ground for others to use as practice) OR he's using an honorblade.

 

Thoughts? Contradictions? Figgledegrak?

[A Joe in the Bush]

It's possible that Zahel has a Spren-blade, but isn't Syl 'dead' at this point?

[Seloun]

The only real evidence of this appears to be from Kaladin not hearing any screaming during his training - however, this is non-evidence, since Kaladin never touches a Shardblade during training:

 

From WoR, 'In to the sky', Ch. 52 (this is shortly before the 4 Shardbearer duel, during Kaladin's solo training in the chasm):

 

 

Kaladin nodded, light wind ruffling his jacket as he fell through the night. “Syl . . .” How to broach this? “I can’t fight him without a Shardblade.”

 

She looked the other way, squeezing her arms together, hugging herself. Such human gestures.

 

“I’ve avoided the training with the Blades that Zahel offers,” Kaladin continued . “It’s hard to justify. I need to learn how to use one of those weapons.”
 

 

After this scene comes the duel, and Kaladin doesn't have a training opportunity with the Blades after that point.

 

The 'Shardblade' Kaladin swings in during practice is a wooden, practice Shardblade:

 

 

Ivis gave them lengths of wood that, weight and balance wise, were decent approximations of a Shardblade. Like a child’s scribble with chalk could be a decent approximation of a person. Then she put them through several routines, demonstrating the ten Shardblade sword stances.

 

What you are probably remembering is the following, but it states clearly that Kaladin is using a practice Shardblade:

 

 

He fell into Windstance and practiced a few of the swings that Ivis had taught them. Nearby, a group of lighteyed men nudged one another, nodding toward him. One said something soft, making the others laugh, though several others continued frowning. The image of a darkeyed man with even a practice Shardblade was not something they found amusing.

[Aleksiel]

Is a practice Shadblade a wooden replication of a real one or is it a protected Shardblade? Remember that this is pre-duel, and Kaladin hasn't encountered a screaming Blade yet, so it's natural he won't note if a Blade doesn't scream (like Shallan's, only then he started to understand the significance). At the training grounds Blades had only made him sick so far.

[RShara]

Here's the description of the practice blades:

 

Ivis gave them lengths of wood that, weight and balance wise, were decent approximations of a Shardblade. Like a child’s scribble with chalk could be a decent approximation of a person. Then she put them through several routines, demonstrating the ten Shardblade sword stances.

[Khyrindor]

I do however think that he has an Honorblade. In he prologue, it mentions (I don't have the book for the exact quote) that his "Blade seemed to shine with a light beyond that of a regular Shardblade." Now. It is possible that he was a Bondsmith, since was also having visions and an obsession with the Way

[Khyrindor]

Sorry about that. And the double post. The phone made me reply early. Continuing on:

of Kings. But I don't think this is the case because the Stormfather does not want to come to Dalinar as a sword, so why would he to Gavilar? So I think It would be very interesting to see him if he had Honorblade powers, with a different set of KR powers. But, if that's the case, then why wouldn't he use them in his Battle with Szeth? He probably didn't know what he could do.

This gives me a new idea. Darkness was saying that stuff about "dabbling in arts that could return the desolation a to the world" and that the Listeners assassinated because he was going to bring their gods back. Also several of the Heralds were at the feast. I find it unlikely that the Heralds wouldn't know if he had their Blade, since he is the king and all. (That is the one which gets passed through the family line, yes?), but maybe if it wasn't, since Elhokar uses his own, the Herald came to get it, or tell him what he had. Anyway, Gavilar might have been bonding the Stormfather, who might be one of the Parshendi gods. They send Szeth to kill him, because they think he is the only one who could handle such a task. Luckily for them, Gavilar was foolish enough to wear his Plate.

Gavilar is cool!

[Aleksiel]

Dalinar's Plate shone at one point in WoK and he had started bonding the Stormfather like Gavilar did. So, I think it's more of a bond-related matter.

 

However, it's interesting to note this might mean Gavilar wasn't going against the Ideals, whereas Amaram's PoV suggested Gavilar wanted to bring a Desolation, which can't be the case if his bond was strong enough to make his Blade shine like a Radiant's.

[RShara]

Don't the Shin have all the leftover Honorblades though?

[Khyrindor]

I'll need a quote. There the Taln-maybe-not-Taln-missing Blade, Szeth's/Kaladin's Blade, and I thought there was one more. I could be wrong though. It would be interesting if the Shin were corrupt or something or Gavilar stole one. And then there's that black sphere...

[RShara]

From Words of Radiance, Taravangian's Interlude:

 

“No, no,” Taravangian said. “I have learned this only recently. Yes, it makes sense now. One of the Honorblades has vanished.”
Szeth blinked, and he focused on Taravangian, as if returning from a distant place. “One of the other seven?”
“Yes,” Taravangian said. “I have heard only hints. Your people are secretive.”

 

 

So Taln's Honorblade, Szeth's Honorblade, and whichever Herald went back for his Blade (this was written in a personalization) makes ten.  No unaccounted for Honorblades at the time that Gavilar was alive.

[maxal]

From Words of Radiance, Taravangian's Interlude:

 

 

 

So Taln's Honorblade, Szeth's Honorblade, and whichever Herald went back for his Blade (this was written in a personalization) makes ten.  No unaccounted for Honorblades at the time that Gavilar was alive.

 

Wasn't the third missing blade one that allows Progression? I always thought Nalan had that one as he revived Sezth at the end of WoR. Therefore, Galivar could not have held a honorblade.

 

Speaking of which, I am not convinced he was such a good person... I am tempted to think he was as good a person as Amaram is. He was working to bring back a Desolation. To what end? I am not sure. Since he had previously developed an interest for the Ways of Kings and since his last words were "To say the most important words a man can say" (or something along the line as I do not recall the exact wording), I am guessing his goal was to bring back the Radiants. It could be he thought having a few Radiants on his side would secure his kingdom... Anyhow, I do think we are bound to find a skeleton or two in Galivar's closet.

[codetoast]

^{Correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't Gavilar's shardblade used in duels by people who borrow the king's blades?}

[Sphinx]

Wasn't the third missing blade one that allows Progression? I always thought Nalan had that one as he revived Sezth at the end of WoR. Therefore, Galivar could not have held a honorblade.

 

Taravangian tells Szeth that one of the seven honorblades the Shin have in their keeping is missing, and suggests that it might allow progression, explaining Kaladin's ability to heal.

 

Taravangian is lying. There is absolutely no evidence that he has received any such reports, because if he had, he would probably be a tad more concerned about them. If he had, Adrotagia would not compliment him on his ability to deflect Szeth the way she does. If he had, he would not be so adamant about Szeth avoiding Kaladin (there are two reasons for this, he doesn't want Szeth to discover the truth, and he doesn't want to put Kaladin in a position where his bond can deepen).

 

So the Shin still have seven honorblades. Szeth/Kaladin has one. Taln has one (even if we don't know where it actually is right now). According to WoB, one herald kept his honorblade. Most people think that this person was Nalan, although this hasn't been a hundred percent confirmed. That means that all the honorblades are accounted for, with the exception that we don't know exactly what is going on with Taln's honorblade. We can be confident that the Herald with the honorblade is not one of the progression honorblades, because both of those are held by female heralds. It's also very likely that this herald "kept" his blade by taking it almost immediately after abandoning it.

 

Nalan used some sort of progression soulcaster/fabrialthing to heal Szeth. He pretty much says so, and you can see it as he is putting it away.

 

 

^{Correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't Gavilar's shardblade used in duels by people who borrow the king's blades?}

This is correct.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sphinx

[Left]

^{Correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't Gavilar's shardblade used in duels by people who borrow the king's blades?}

 

It is.

 

 

Wasn't the third missing blade one that allows Progression? I always thought Nalan had that one as he revived Sezth at the end of WoR. Therefore, Galivar could not have held a honorblade.

 

I'm pretty positive Nalan used a fabriel to revive Szeth.

 

Edit: *sigh* ninja.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Leftinch

[Terisen]

 Anyway, Gavilar might have been bonding the Stormfather, who might be one of the Parshendi gods.

 

I don't think the Stormfather was regarded as one of the Parshendi gods.  They certainly knew about him, but not as a god.  They feared their gods.

 

 

The Rider of Storms was a traitor, yes - but you could not have a traitor who had not originally been a friend.

 

Gavilar was trying to bring back their feared gods in a whole different manner, I believe.  Likely something to do with that black stone he carried.

[maxal]

I'm pretty positive Nalan used a fabriel to revive Szeth.

 

Edit: *sigh* ninja.

 

Really? I always thought he was using the missing honorblade... I mean, we've had a POV right before mentioning how the blade has gone missing and how it allowed Progression.... Do we know for a fact it was fabrial?

[RShara]

As far as we can tell, no Honorblades are missing, Mr. T is lying.  And the two Blades with the Progression Surge are for the female Heralds.  So Nale would just about have to be using a fabrial.

[PorridgeBrick]

Really? I always thought he was using the missing honorblade... I mean, we've had a POV right before mentioning how the blade has gone missing and how it allowed Progression.... Do we know for a fact it was fabrial?

Yes, we do. Nalan says it's a fabrial, and we see him tucking something tiny into his pocket. Honorblades don't need to be stored in pockets, and are most likely much larger than what could fit in one.

[maxal]

Yes, we do. Nalan says it's a fabrial, and we see him tucking something tiny into his pocket. Honorblades don't need to be stored in pockets, and are most likely much larger than what could fit in one.

 

Oh well I missed that one. Thanks.

[Aether]

Hey, guys? What if Darkness and that-other-suspected-Herald-maybe-Kalak weren't talking about Szeth and his Blade, but Gavilar's Blade?  It seems to be a stretch, but we don't know when one of the Heralds (though Nale is a good guess) went back for his Blade, so even though Gavilar's blade has been in the family for a while, there is a small chance that it just might, maybe, possibly be an Honourblade.

[Moogle]

Hey, guys? What if Darkness and that-other-suspected-Herald-maybe-Kalak weren't talking about Szeth and his Blade, but Gavilar's Blade?  It seems to be a stretch, but we don't know when one of the Heralds (though Nale is a good guess) went back for his Blade, so even though Gavilar's blade has been in the family for a while, there is a small chance that it just might, maybe, possibly be an Honourblade.

 

And then it turns out it was Shalash's Honorblade, and Tearim was Lightweaved into looking like Gavilar, and Gavilar is still alive?

 

I still have hope for that theory even though it's basically completely impossible.

[Aether]

Just having fun by stretching the limits of plausibility. But yeah, unlikely. Unless Brandon is really just screwing around.

[Vortaan]

Side note on nalan's fabrial: is it possible that it's a fabrial like Nightblood is a Shardblade, and he's actually using some other kind of investiture? Maybe southern continent Feruchemy?

[Moogle]

Side note on nalan's fabrial: is it possible that it's a fabrial like Nightblood is a Shardblade, and he's actually using some other kind of investiture? Maybe southern continent Feruchemy?

 

Could be possible, but Szeth says it was "glowing brightly" as I recall, and Scadrial doesn't do anything so blatant so far as we know (Scadrial is a low Investiture world). It seems most likely that it's just a Regrowth fabrial, since that would explain what happened perfectly and Nalan would have easy access to it (since he has access to a Lightweaving fabrial too, probably).