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Investiture - What does it mean?


Swimmingly

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As far as we can tell, all magical Investiture stems from Shards or Adonalsium Investing a Shardworld, or a Splinter doing the same. This begs the question, what's in it for them? Investiture implies that a return on the Investment will come eventually, and the peculiar mechanisms of Investiture focused through a Shardworld seem to be almost deletorius to the Shard. Why, then, do they Invest?

One possibility is quite simply the desire to play God. Who wouldn't with that much power?

My other thought is that it benefits the Shard in some way. That the Investiture of their Shard is somehow anchored and amplified, even fortified by Investing. Perhaps you lose some direct power, but it makes defenseman and perception easier somehow.

Thoughts?

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I'n not sure if they do gain anything by it, but Some shards can't help themselves. Endowenment needs something to endow due to her(?) intent. Honor needs to defend, and SO on.

 

Of course, Preservation is perfectly fine with just doing nothig, So why did he and Ruin team up to make a World?

 

If it does Benefit the Shard, it probably gains them more Invesitrure. There's all of the Excess Invesiture laying around From Adonalsium, so maybe by Investing in a World, they get to collect some of this Magical Dust?

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Playing God is definitely a big part in my eyes. There might be a more practical component as well, though perhaps not as... direct as you suggest. Investing into a world allows your people - and they are yours in so many ways - to develop their potential and maybe become a force in the cosmere. Look at the third Mistborn trilogy we know so little about. Harmony, if he is still around, will have a pretty formidable army (whose purpose can be influenced, if not outright dictated by him - conquerors seem unlikely, but peacemakers, judges, galactic policemen, balancers would be in line with his Intent).

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I'd say you're overlooking something here - the Shard's intent. 

 

Ruin needed to destroy, Preservation needed something to preserve, thus life on Scadrial. Cultivation needed to 'cultivate' something, and Endowment's intent requires something for it to bequeath something to.

 

And in one specific case perhaps, we may have love coming into it. Honor and Cultivation's Shardholders were in love, after all. In a sense, all human life on Roshar - and their spren - might well be considered their children.

 

Which makes me wonder if we'll ever see a scene in Dragonsteel of those two discussing having a family.

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And in one specific case perhaps, we may have love coming into it. Honor and Cultivation's Shardholders were in love, after all. In a sense, all human life on Roshar - and their spren - might well be considered their children. 

 

Just saying, I'm not convinced Roshar humans are Honor and Cultivation's creation. But the spren (those that are of both, and not Adonalsium spren or Odium spren, if he has them) totally.

 

I agree that the Intent is an important part of it. In order to fulfill it, Shards must have something to work with. This necessitates humans, or at least life.

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It's quite possible it might not mean anything. So imagine this - you're an immortal shard, travelling the cosmos. You don't want to be tied down to one place, so you travel for oh, say, 500 years. Space is pretty boring though. Maybe you should go to a planet and do some things? Before you know it, you're invested.

 

We know Odium resisted being invested for a long time, and then finally did. We know that uninvesting yourself is tough. We know there's at least one shard travelling in space and not invested in a planet. We suspect that Endowment only invested themselves 500 years ago (though it's possible they were previously invested on a different planet prior, dunno).

 

Anyway, long story short, I think boredom is the correct answer.

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We know there's at least one shard travelling in space and not invested in a planet.

I'm sorry, I don't know about this tidbit. Can you kindly give the reference?

 

 

We suspect that Endowment only invested themselves 500 years ago (though it's possible they were previously invested on a different planet prior, dunno).

Is this a theory? Can you kindly provide me the link? And why do you speak of Endowment as "they" and "them?"

I'd appreciate your help.

Edited by Meg
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For spren atleast its a symboitic relationship.. they gain sentience while you gain power.. This seems to be along the same line with breaths in Nathlis.. Elentris Seons and Aons seems to have some type of congitive physical overlap (watching seons go mad after bond is broken)

 

 

Just makes me think this is probably similar throughout other systems.. Investiture gains some congitive/phyisical presnece or sentience while person gains power etc..

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I really wouldn't say the Breaths gain sentience from their magic users any more than Stormlight gains sentience, or the Dor gains sentience. It's just pure Investiture. It has no Cognitive Aspect to think with. Spren/Seons/Skaze/Awakened Objects are different: they're not just Investiture, because they have a Cognitive Aspect. They're living ideas, powered by the Investiture they're made of. Yes, Investiture can become sentient if you leave it alone, but that's not related to the magic user. That just happens naturally.

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Is this a theory? Can you kindly provide me the link? And why do you speak of Endowment as "they" and "them?"

I'd appreciate your help.

 

We don't know what gender Endowment is, they and them are  also gender neutral pronouns used for someone who has an unknown gender... 

 

The other part is a theory, we don't know why Endowment only invested in people 500 years ago (more than this now, probably closer to eight hundred if we are going off of modern Rosharan time). It could be a number of things, but we do know that Breath, as an expression of Investiture has only become known relatively recently for some unknown reason. Why that is, however, we can't say.

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@Porridge: thanks :)

We don't know what gender Endowment is, they and them are  also gender neutral pronouns used for someone who has an unknown gender...

Ah, I've seen that use, but not yet if the "subject" is definitely singular. Sorry for that question; English still is really a bit tricky for me.

 

The other part is a theory, we don't know why Endowment only invested in people 500 years ago (more than this now, probably closer to eight hundred if we are going off of modern Rosharan time). It could be a number of things, but we do know that Breath, as an expression of Investiture has only become known relatively recently for some unknown reason. Why that is, however, we can't say.

Thanks, but can you provide a link to this theory? :)

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@Meg: Oh Stormfather, it seems it hasn't officially been written yet...I guess I could write it, but I generally like planting seeds and letting others write the theories. 

 

This is more a matter of logic, but I'll give the short version here. We know that Breath as a known form of Investiture only appeared approximately 500 years before Warbreaker, or 800 years before Roshar. The question is "why"? It might be, as Tempus suggested, that it took Endowment a while to find a planet to invest in (or to want to Invest) thus explaining why Breath is a relatively "new" manifestation of Investiture. I personally think this is somewhat illogical, considering Endowment's intent, but the main point is, that compared to other manifestation's of a shard's intent (that is, it's Investiture), Breath (as a known manifestation) came later than the Metallic Arts and Stormlight. In other words, for some unknown reason, Endowment's Investiture has become known later than other manifestations of the Shard's intent...

Edited by Nymp
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@Nymp: If anything, please use Dustmother O_o.

I thought there was already something written where I could get those "facts" you mentioned. Especially about the timeline. Investiture of Endowment five hundred years before Warbreaker? Eight hundred years before "Roshar"? What is "zero" for Roshar in this timeline?

Edited by Meg
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@Meg: Oh Stormfather, it seems it hasn't officially been written yet...I guess I could write it, but I generally like planting seeds and letting others write the theories. 

 

This is more a matter of logic, but I'll give the short version here. We know that Breath as a known form of Investiture only appeared approximately 500 years before Warbreaker, or 800 years before Roshar. The question is "why"? It might be, as Tempus suggested, that it took Endowment a while to find a planet to invest in (or to want to Invest) thus explaining why Breath is a relatively "new" manifestation of Investiture. I personally think this is somewhat illogical, considering Endowment's intent, but the main point is, that compared to other manifestation's of a shard's intent (that is, it's Investiture), Breath (as a known manifestation) came later than the Metallic Arts and Stormlight. In other words, for some unknown reason, Endowment's Investiture has become known later than other manifestations of the Shard's intent...

 

Surely it's quite plausible that Endowment has been Invested a while and people just never accidentally said the right Command to transfer Breath? That's not something you stumble on, and Awakening with one Breath is near-impossible without any knowledge. Even with the knowledge, Vivenna had a lot of trouble.

 

Weren't the Five Scholars all Returned? Seems more or less plausible that they were the first to ever really study Awakening due to being of a high enough Heightening to instinctively puzzle it out.

Edited by Moogle
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There were no returned until 800 years ago though.

 

Which would be why Awakening wasn't discovered until they were around and had enough Breath to puzzle the system out. I'm sure Awakening as a system was possible for thousands of years prior, it's just that no one really got around to it. Something changed, and Endowment decided to start sending Returned, but I'm reasonably confident Nalthis was Invested by Endowment thousands of years prior.

 

Perhaps Endowment saw the future and knew that he he/she had to start actively meddling. Could be Harmony or Odium's fault.

Edited by Moogle
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