Heralds and Surges summary / cheatsheet

[Eri]

Hi, I made a kind of reference document (mostly stuff from the wiki) on Heralds and Surges and chapters (in progress) + some wild guesses, I thought maybe it could be useful to someone:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R7NoW7vMfWMSezANJ1Me7p4rK72kutmnc5kuMKugqQU/edit?usp=sharing

[Numb]

Just a note I think Artform comes from creationspren and not cryptics. Here's the song:

"Artform for colors beyond our ken;
For its grand songs we yearn. 
We must attract creationspren; 
These songs suffice ’til we learn. 

Song of Revision, 279th stanza

Remember cryptics are actually liespren so I think a cryptic bond with listener may produce something rather different.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Numb

[Eri]

Yes, I'm trying to tie the forms to Heralds, not spren, and there'll probably be more than one form per row.

Also, creationspren may be "lesser" Lightweaver spren --- I mean, attracted to them as windspren to Windrunners. So they are kind of related to Cryptics.

[Argent]

I like.

 

But.

 

• If you list Jezrien's Vorin name, Jezerezeh'Elin, you should list all of the Heralds' Vorin names (their symmetric name + 'Elin). I guess the fullest list, for Jezrien at least, would be
  Jezrien: Jezerezeh, Jezerezeh'Elin, Yaezir
  • I should mention that I haven't seen any of the female Heralds sport the 'Elin suffix, so it's possible that this one is strictly masculine
• A small thing, but the differences in tenses in the Notes column bothers me slightly (e.g. "she would train surgeons" vs "he taught people how to cast bronze")
• The Windrunners' extra power, the one you have listed as fighting skill, is far from certain or confirmed. In fact, since Brandon advised me to keep an eye on the number of the Windrunners' squires, it might be completely wrong. Add a question mark, maybe?

Actually, I would be interested in working with you on finishing, maintaining, and updating this, if you would have me.

[Moogle]

I'd argue that the Windrunners probably got supernatural charisma in addition to fighting skill. Kaladin's leadership abilities don't strike me as entirely natural. You could probably argue each Radiant gets two passive abilities based on the Herald's attributes from that, like Shallan being good with art (Creative) and having a great memory (honest) and Kaladin being good at fighting (protecting) and having great gobs of charisma (leading), though I grant it's something of a stretch.

[Eri]

Thank you everyone for the comments (also, I've turned on comments on the doc)!

 

• The Windrunners' extra power, the one you have listed as fighting skill, is far from certain or confirmed. In fact, since Brandon advised me to keep an eye on the number of the Windrunners' squires, it might be completely wrong. Add a question mark, maybe?

 

As I have mentioned in the comments, columns with non-bolded headers are all pure guesses and my opinions. Other are based on the wiki and have guesses marked with question marks.

[PorridgeBrick]

Some notes:

Additional Powers Column: personally, I'd give the Skybreakers a talent for finding past sin. Also, Truthwatchers seem to be able to see the future, and Elsecallers might, just maybe, have supernatural geolocation. I'd add all of those, though with question marks.

Spren: We know the cometspren Eshonai sees is probably a Nahel spren, though not which order. I'd add it to both the Skybreaker's and Willshaper's for now, with question marks on both. Also, when asked about the original bondsmith spren, Brandon drew a picture of the sun.

Lesser Spren: Judging by when Shallan drew Pattern, I'd add creationspren to the Lightweaver row.

Fabrials: Painrials use rubies too, as well as heating fabrials iirc.

Stances: You missed Vinestance.

Non-evil forms: Since there's apparently "hundreds" of forms, I seriously doubt there's any Herald -> form correlation. The evil forms, sure, but not the normal ones.

Out of curiosity, what are you using to guess the associated nations? There doesn't seem to be any evidence that I can remember except on Alethela.

[Sylveris]

I was just about to ask about the nations as well, I think it reasonable to connect each kingdom to a herald, just wondering how you choose this arrangement.

I also think the surges should be the other way around. While each order doesn't necessarily have one primary and one secondary surges, in case they do it just feels more fitting to me that for example, Adhesion as the primary surge of the Windrunners, Illumination for the Lightweavers, Division for the Dustbringer, etc. (This is mostly based on the orders' names, as well as Kaladin's, Shallan's, Lift's, and maybe Ym's (if he is a Truthwatcher) affinity toward their surges)

 

P.S. Great work!

Edited April 10, 2014 by athas65

[PorridgeBrick]

I was just about to ask about the nations as well, I think it reasonable to connect each kingdom to a herald, just wondering how you choose this arrangement.

I also think the surges should be the other way around. While each order doesn't necessarily have one primary and one secondary surges, in case they do it just feels more fitting to me that for example, Adhesion as the primary surge of the Windrunners, Illumination for the Lightweavers, Division for the Dustbringer, etc. (This is mostly based on the orders' names, as well as Kaladin's, Shallan's, Lift's, and maybe Ym's (if he is a Truthwatcher) affinity toward their surges)

 

P.S. Great work!

I think you're on the right track here. The first Surge going clockwise seems to be the first Surge each order learns. The same appears to hold for Jasnah, since she's totally competent with Soulcasting but doesn't really know what she's doing with Elsecalling. It might not be totally Primary, as Kaladin has plenty of an affinity towards Gravitation once he learns it, but certainly each order has much greater difficulty learning the second surge in the first place.

[Maffu17]

I think decayform be under the dustbringers as the WOR ars arcanum says division= destruction & decay

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Would it be possible to link the Silver Kingoms in with eye colour? I remember Dunny claiming Veden heritage because his eyes were purplish. It's an example of unusual eye colours with no Shardblade/Spren involved.

Szeth has green eyes, and Iriali eyes are pale yellow. The two reds could be taken as brown in a darker shade. I can't think of any instances of natural blue eyes, though, or how diamond would look.