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Shadesmar, the Cosmere, and Spren (sorta) (WoR Spoilers)


Truthwatcher

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So, I was thinking about

Nightblood

and how it works now that it's on Roshar. Did it suddenly become a spren? Was it a spren back on Nalthis, but just not called that? Then, I realized something I hadn't before, which may be pretty obvious and mentioned by others previously, but some preliminary searching didn't turn up anything, so I figured I'd go and make a thread about it.

 

We know that Shadesmar is the Cognitive Realm, and that it's accessible from all the Shardworlds. This is how Worldhoppers get from world to world, presumably popping out of their world into Shadesmar, and then out into their destination world. This would imply Many Shardworlds--->One Shadesmar. Imagine, if you will, a wagon wheel. The spokes are the worlds, Shadesmar is the hub. Simple enough, and nothing new here. But, if that's true, then do all the cognitive aspects of everything from every shardworld exist in Shadesmar? When Shallan and Jasnah are in Shadesmar, convincing the little glass beads to turn into other things, they're only interacting with the cognitive aspects of objects on Roshar. But, if The Cognitive Realm is actually a "center hub" of sorts for all the Shardworlds, couldn't the Cognitive aspects of anything be found there? I wonder if it would be possible for Jasnah to head in to Shadesmar, and convince a stick on Scadrial that it wants to suddenly soulcast into fire. 

 

Like I said, this may have been explored before, but I couldn't find anything. Hopefully this will at least prompt some productive thought.

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So, I was thinking about

Nightblood

and how it works now that it's on Roshar. Did it suddenly become a spren? Was it a spren back on Nalthis, but just not called that? Then, I realized something I hadn't before, which may be pretty obvious and mentioned by others previously, but some preliminary searching didn't turn up anything, so I figured I'd go and make a thread about it.

 

We know that Shadesmar is the Cognitive Realm, and that it's accessible from all the Shardworlds. This is how Worldhoppers get from world to world, presumably popping out of their world into Shadesmar, and then out into their destination world. This would imply Many Shardworlds--->One Shadesmar. Imagine, if you will, a wagon wheel. The spokes are the worlds, Shadesmar is the hub. Simple enough, and nothing new here. But, if that's true, then do all the cognitive aspects of everything from every shardworld exist in Shadesmar? When Shallan and Jasnah are in Shadesmar, convincing the little glass beads to turn into other things, they're only interacting with the cognitive aspects of objects on Roshar. But, if The Cognitive Realm is actually a "center hub" of sorts for all the Shardworlds, couldn't the Cognitive aspects of anything be found there? I wonder if it would be possible for Jasnah to head in to Shadesmar, and convince a stick on Scadrial that it wants to suddenly soulcast into fire. 

 

Like I said, this may have been explored before, but I couldn't find anything. Hopefully this will at least prompt some productive thought.

 

I would say no Nightblood is not a spren, he is just spren-like.  (In the way that Seons are not spren, but they are spren-like.

 

And Shadesmar, while it technically means Cognitive Realm, more accurately refers to a region of the Cognitive Realm (namely the part that corresponds to Roshar).  So there is a single Cognitive Realm, in the same way there is a single Physical Realm.  The wagon wheel analogy doesn't quite fit in my opinion, it isn't a simple as entering and then leaving.  However space works differently in the Cognitive Realm, places where there is a lot of cognitive activity, like a city, is expanded in the Cognitive Realm, while those where there isn't, like empty space, is contracted.  This is why the Cognitive Realm is used for worldhopping, the space between worlds becomes essentially non-existant.

 

So if Jasnah wanted to Soulcast a Scadrian stick into fire she would have to first enter Shadesmar and then travel to the region of the Cognitive Realm that corresponds to Scadrial.

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There is a map of Shadesmar (the cognitive realm that corresponds to Roshar) in the Way of Kings. In this map, three expanses are listed in each of the corners (the fourth corner expanse exists but was removed to have a place to put the word 'Shadesmar'). We know that the expanses correspond to various other worlds. It is theorized that because space is empty, there is no 'space' in the cognitive realm (no cognitive presences) and thus the worlds can be walked between, but that's speculation. It is also notable that though the Knights Radiant had the ability to travel within Shadesmar and did so frequently, they passed down almost no indication of worldhopping or other worlds - so there may be more to travel between worlds within the cognitive realm than expected. 

 

Here's the article on known facts about Shadesmar, including the map.

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There is a map of Shadesmar (the cognitive realm that corresponds to Roshar) in the Way of Kings. In this map, three expanses are listed in each of the corners (the fourth corner expanse exists but was removed to have a place to put the word 'Shadesmar'). We know that the expanses correspond to various other worlds. It is theorized that because space is empty, there is no 'space' in the cognitive realm (no cognitive presences) and thus the worlds can be walked between, but that's speculation. It is also notable that though the Knights Radiant had the ability to travel within Shadesmar and did so frequently, they passed down almost no indication of worldhopping or other worlds - so there may be more to travel between worlds within the cognitive realm than expected. 

 

Here's the article on known facts about Shadesmar, including the map.

 

Not just speculation, as it turns out.

 

Source:

 

NEPENE (MARCH 2013)

I suppose one thing to wonder is how do you enter Shadesmar? We know of a number of people who are jumping from world to world through Shadesmar. Grump Thinker and Blunt, Hoid too. How are they accessing the cognitive plane to transport themselves across the lands?
 
Presumably Shallan's bond with the truthspren let her get in. How does this work? If she had only a dim sphere then does it not require any stormlight, any spiritual power? Is it a purely cognitive change? I could see some advantages to that. You could hop into this alternative dimension at will if you were being attacked, even with little power.
 
The scholars earlier talk of whether there is food in Shadesmar, so presumably others have visited it. Can non soulcasters visit it? Is there some fabrial that grants you access? Are they only referring to the distant past, when KR had the power to access it? Is it purely a thing of the mind that anyone can learn? Is it only possible if you have access to a splinter of a shard?
 
And on an unrelated question, they have symbols on their heads. If Shallan managed to draw one of these would it be some glyph? Perhaps some glyph that we would recognize, like the glyphs in the artwork at the front?
 
BRANDON SANDERSON
There are many ways to enter Shadesmar. You'll see more of this in the future. One thing to keep in mind about Shadesmar is that space where things are thinking is expanded, while space where there is nothing to think is contracted. In other words, in an empty void, you get almost no Shadesmar. This makes distances as we think of them very different there.
 
As for the symbols making up the heads of the cryptics, those are not glyphs. But it's possible you would recognize them...
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Yay, Kurk has a quote that supports me! Upvotes for everyone in the thread!

 

Incidentally, that WoB supports a lot of things I've suspected about the cognitive realm. Fantastic. My theories are shaping up nicely.

 

 

As for the symbols making up the heads of the cryptics, those are not glyphs. But it's possible you would recognize them...

 

Now THAT is curious. We know that shardic investiture is tied to symbols, in some as yet unknown way. Would we see symbols similar to the surge symbols, or to some of the many, many other magic symbols we've seen in the cosmere?

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Okay, thanks for the information about Shadesmar/The Cognitive Realm. Still, I wonder how simple it would be for Jasnah to enter Shadesmar, head over to the Expanse of the Densities, and wreak soulcasting havoc on the objects of whatever world that is. In theory, it doesn't seem that difficult, but the point about the KR having access to Shadesmar but having no records of worldhopping seems to imply there's a lot more to it than it would seem. 

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Okay, thanks for the information about Shadesmar/The Cognitive Realm. Still, I wonder how simple it would be for Jasnah to enter Shadesmar, head over to the Expanse of the Densities, and wreak soulcasting havoc on the objects of whatever world that is. In theory, it doesn't seem that difficult, but the point about the KR having access to Shadesmar but having no records of worldhopping seems to imply there's a lot more to it than it would seem. 

 

It could possibly have to do with the fact that it's hard to gather that much Stormlight to use to bridge the areas that are "water". I'd be curious as to how other magic systems traverse The Cognitive Realm however, if it requires a similar amount of Investiture use to cross worlds. 

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