Cultivation is Splintered

[Moogle]

From our latest batch of WoBs we have:

 

Q: Is the Nightwatcher a spren of Cultivation in a similar way that the Stormfather is to Honor?
Brandon: The night watcher is not Cultivation but is related. You're on the right track.

 

This made me pause. Wyndle remarks that his mother (the Nightwatcher, as he asks what Lift asked of his mother) has given up on mankind because He (Honor) is gone. People have previously speculated that the Nightwatcher is to Cultivation as the Stormfather is to Honor, but this is apparently wrong, and it doesn't explain why the Nightwatcher is sad over Honor's death. I have a (massively speculative) theory:

 

Cultivation voluntarily Splintered or allowed herself to be Splintered. Cultivation's holder is still alive, and holds a part of her former power and is now known as the Nightwatcher.

 

Odium was capable of Splintering Honor, so why couldn't he Splinter Cultivation? I think it makes perfect sense. We know that Splintering is not necessarily lethal. The reason Tanavast passed is likely due to Odium directly killing him post-Splintering, since we know he was alive long enough to give his visions to the Stormfather. But Odium has no real reason to kill Cultivation's holder, just Splinter her.

 

Massive speculative reasons why:

• The speculated love triangle between Rayse, Tanavast, and Cultivation's holder could mean Odium wouldn't kill her, he just doesn't want her capable of challenging him.
• Tanavast may have brokered a deal: his life for Cultivation's holder's.
• Cultivation may have made the deal herself and/or self-Splintered in her grief.

 

Is there a WoB I'm missing that directly says Cultivation is not Splintered? The closest I've found is that Cultivation's holder is still alive. This theory explains the Nightwatcher's apathy better than the sprengod explanation.

[zephyr1011]

Well, we know that you can have Splinters without being Splintered ie. dead, like Endowment does on Nalthis. So the Nightwatcher may be something like that.

[Ryshadium]

Nevermind, my comment was in the original question.  Ignore this post please  

Edited March 12, 2014 by Ryshadium

[Bremen]

I saw someone else theorize that Cusicesh was bonded to a Bondsmith at the Recreance and he is reliving that day every day.

 

If you believe Nightwatcher/Stormfather/Cusicesh are the three spren of the Bondsmith order than there is a good chance that "he" refers to Cusicesh instead of Tavanast.

[Eejit]

I had a similar thought, that Cultivation voluntarily and maybe even reversibly splintered herself. We have been told that the Holder of Cultivation is alive but C has been conspicuously less of a personality in the story than Vision-Honor or the Spren, Stormfather.

 

Could it have been a move of self-preservation? To avoid Odium doing the same to her but more fatally/permanently?

Or to continue the Oathpact (e.g. Odium agrees to remain until he splinters both H and C, succeeds with H but C pre-emptively splinters herself)?

Perhaps as another means of preventing Odium from leaving? If he left with the job unfinished perhaps C could re-constitute herself and even manage to revive H in some form.

 

Lots of crazy possibilities.

[Ryshadium]

Is there any indication that Cusicesh does anything other than come out of the ocean on a regular basis and drain people? Could he/it/she be an amalgam of Honor and Cultivation?  It does rotate through male and female faces. 

 

The draining people doesn't seem particularly honorable or cultivation-y however. 

[Confused]

Isn't it equally possible that the Nightwatcher is a spren anthropomorphizing both Civilization and Odium - the boon and the curse? The Nightwatcher could still be Wyndle's "mother," but with a touch of Odium in her. (Just like Shallan's father...)

[Moogle]

Isn't it equally possible that the Nightwatcher is a spren anthropomorphizing both Civilization and Odium - the boon and the curse? The Nightwatcher could still be Wyndle's "mother," but with a touch of Odium in her. (Just like Shallan's father...)

 

I like this idea a lot. It also fits in with the musings on Cultivation and Odium mixing to make Voidbinding.

[AerionBFII]

Didn't big boss Brandon say Cultivation was still unsplintered? 

[Moogle]

Didn't big boss Brandon say Cultivation was still unsplintered? 

 

Can you provide a source? The only WoB I've found is that Cultivation's holder is alive, not that she's unSplintered.

[Asha'man Logain]

Well the obvious interpretation of there being 3 bondsmith spren, is that there are 3 shards, 3 special spren, and one is the stormfather.

 

However we know Brandon rarely is that straight forward. If it didn't take the brilliant minds here at least 4 days to crack and/or discuss, it's probably too easy.

 

However, a lot of threads lately have been about how Cultivation and Honor seem to be linked and meshing, at least as far as spren go. Most spren seem to live on a spectrum, cultivation being on one end, and honor on the other. If that is the case, then why can't the Bondsmith spren be the one 100% Honorspren, the stormfather, one 100% Cultivationspren, the nightwatcher, and one perfectly balanced 50-50 spren, the Night father, (or stormwatcher but that sounds a little passive )

[Numb]

Didn't big boss Brandon say Cultivation was still unsplintered? 

 

Don't recall that but he did say Cultivations holder is still alive which doesn't rule out the posibility of splintering I think.

[Chaos]

If she was Splintered, then it wasn't via Odium's method, so I'm not sure about this. Brandon had said that Odium's method of Splintering would almost certainly kill the user--it's like Hemalurgy that way (and if you lived, you'd be... very different. I wouldn't even classify it as alive, necessarily). So I don't think she is Splintered, personally, though she may have particular Splinters that she created on her own accord. But she is alive and well; I would like to reserve "Splintered" to refer to Shards that are totally Splintered, not ones that have a few Splinters.

[Swimmingly]

Can a Shareholder Splinter and drop her power in such a way that she can pick up a large enough splinter of it to assure immortality and some key abilities?

[Chaos]

Can a Shareholder Splinter and drop her power in such a way that she can pick up a large enough splinter of it to assure immortality and some key abilities?

I'm not sure a holder can release their Shard without killing themselves. When you ascend, you become the Shard. You are the power, at that point. So releasing the power, I think, would effectively kill you, not to mention having the bad side effects of an unheld Shard...

[Swimmingly]

As Brandon says, anything is possible. Also, RAFO.

[Moogle]

I'm not sure a holder can release their Shard without killing themselves. When you ascend, you become the Shard. You are the power, at that point. So releasing the power, I think, would effectively kill you, not to mention having the bad side effects of an unheld Shard...

 

Slivers like the Lord Ruler exist, so I'm uncertain of this. Brandon has previously said that a Sliver is someone who's held the majority of a Shard's power and then given it up, which implies a full Shardholder could do it. It's probably really hard, but whatever was left of Cultivation might have been going insane with grief at Tanavast's death, giving her the strength of will to self-Splinter in a sort of suicide.

 

Incredibly speculative, to be sure, but Odium can't be the only one capable of Splintering things. Shards definitely do it on a small scale for things like the Returned/Heralds. This would just be doing it on a bigger scale.

 

Brandon has said that the Nightwatcher is not to Cultivation like the Stormfather is to Honor, and Wyndle says "She" has stopped caring since "He" died, which implies a heavy personal relationship to Honor. I'd like a way to reconcile this.

[AerionBFII]

Can you provide a source? The only WoB I've found is that Cultivation's holder is alive, not that she's unSplintered.

Yes you are right. I meant to say still alive.

 

It was merely an educated guess, 

- Tanavast stated that Cultivation is better at seeing the future than he is (implies she is still around and no shard has been shattered/killed since Tanavast himself) source way of kings chapter 75 and The second letter

- Hoid states there is only one woman as old as he and they do not get along, this is obviously a nod at Cultivation.

 

I just find it hard to believe that Odium would shatter her and let her survive after all his goal it to splinter all of the shards of Adonalsium and to be the most powerful and to prevent anybody from opposing him. I don't think he'll take the chance and let Cultivation's shard holder live when she knows how to use one of the 16. 

[Moogle]

Yes you are right. I meant to say still alive.

 

It was merely an educated guess, 

- Tanavast stated that Cultivation is better at seeing the future than he is (implies she is still around and no shard has been shattered/killed since Tanavast himself) source way of kings chapter 75 and The second letter

- Hoid states there is only one woman as old as he and they do not get along, this is obviously a nod at Cultivation.

 

I just find it hard to believe that Odium would shatter her and let her survive after all his goal it to splinter all of the shards of Adonalsium and to be the most powerful and to prevent anybody from opposing him. I don't think he'll take the chance and let Cultivation's shard holder live when she knows how to use one of the 16. 

 

Your two points establish that Cultivation, if she was Splintered (which is unlikely but I'm putting forward the idea) would have had to been Splintered after Honor. Honor's been Splintered for thousands of years (I think?), so I don't think it's that unlikely she could have been Splintered in that timeframe. 

 

I agree that Odium would have killed her had he Splintered her, but I am not saying Odium was necessarily responsible. I think Cultivation could have done it to herself. A sort of divine suicide now that her lover was dead, and someone else to be reborn from the ashes. Holding a Shard basically kills you, or changes you significantly. Self-Splintering might be a way for Cultivation to turn herself into someone who doesn't feel grief. Like, say, the Nightwatcher (associated with death and seen as a shepherd of the dead throughout the novels).

 

It's unlikely. I lean towards Cultivation being alive and well (if apathetic) personally. But I wanted a way to resolve the issues with our WoB saying the Nightwatcher was not like the Stormfather and was not the same as Cultivation. The Nightwatcher being Cultivation's holder holding onto a Splintered piece of her old Shard could be interesting.

[Chaos]

Slivers like the Lord Ruler exist, so I'm uncertain of this. Brandon has previously said that a Sliver is someone who's held the majority of a Shard's power and then given it up, which implies a full Shardholder could do it. It's probably really hard, but whatever was left of Cultivation might have been going insane with grief at Tanavast's death, giving her the strength of will to self-Splinter in a sort of suicide.

 

Incredibly speculative, to be sure, but Odium can't be the only one capable of Splintering things. Shards definitely do it on a small scale for things like the Returned/Heralds. This would just be doing it on a bigger scale.

 

Brandon has said that the Nightwatcher is not to Cultivation like the Stormfather is to Honor, and Wyndle says "She" has stopped caring since "He" died, which implies a heavy personal relationship to Honor. I'd like a way to reconcile this.

 

I see what you're getting at, and I like what you're trying to do in reconciling it. Your point about Slivers is entirely valid, though I would argue that we have never seen an example of someone who fully ascended to a Shard and was able to give it up without dying.

Mistborn spoilers:

The Lord Ruler only held the Well of Ascension, as did Vin initially. This classified them as Slivers, which means that there was a residue of holding that much power imprinted on them. They never became Preservation in that process. Yes, Vin did pick up the power fully, but we know how that turned out.

Kelsier might be the closest Sliver we currently know of to hold the most power of a Shard and then release it, since he temporarily was the guardian of Preservation's power after Leras's death. But, still, he didn't have a Physical aspect and never fully became Preservation.

If a Shard could give up their power, I feel that would have already happened in the history of the cosmere. I can't imagine all sixteen were willing to pick up this burden. This would be a good question for Brandon: has a Shard willingly given up their power before?

So, I'm still skeptical that a Shard can give up their power, but I'll wait and see if there's any new evidence.

As for the reconciliation, perhaps the Nightwatcher could be a Splinter of Cultivation and share some of Cultivation's mental attributes--as that power could be colored by Cultivation herself--and Cultivation could still be a separate entity. I don't know if that makes much sense though. Hard to tell at this point.

[Shardbearer]

This is from when Eshonai goes out into the highstorm to transform:

 

 

Eshonai preferred a shield. It felt more like facing the Rider straight on. This one, the soul of the storm, was the one the humans called Stormfather-and he was not one of her people's gods. In fact, the songs named him a traitor-a spren who had chosen to protect humans instead of the listeners.

 

Emphasis added. On first reading, I took this as indicating there were other big spren that rode the storms, and it was the Stormfather's turn this time around. Now, I'm not so sure. What do you think?

[1empyrean]

This is from when Eshonai goes out into the highstorm to transform:

 

 

Emphasis added. On first reading, I took this as indicating there were other big spren that rode the storms, and it was the Stormfather's turn this time around. Now, I'm not so sure. What do you think?

 

This quote definitely implies that there are more riders out there, but I don't think that they all ride storms.  I believe that Cusicesh is one (maybe he rides tides or something).  So, what might this imply about the Stormfather?  Well, the Stormfather is called a traitor by Eshonai, probably because of his role in the process of creating surgebinders.  

 

The Stormfather states that he is a piece of Honor, but why would it take the form of a storm, implying to me that it is a spren of nature (of Cultivation)?  Perhaps Human perception and something Honor did changed him.

 

The Listeners are called Ancient ones.  WoB Imply that they were not ORIGINALLY of Cultivation or of Odium, which implies that they are now, and that they are NOT of Honor.  Maybe they were Native inhabitants of the Greater Rosharan System before Honor, Cultivation, or Odium showed up (just a theory).

 

Anyways, I believe that Cultivation is still around, that the nightwatcher's nature is determined more by the perception of the people who actually come into contact with her (which means that those foolish Alethi don't change her much at all, as they are so far away and that their idea of what the Nightwatcher is is often very different than what she has actually become...The cognitive realm probably has a lot of rules that no one has figured out yet).