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Hybrid Surgebinding speculations


skaa

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According to the Way of Kings Ars Arcanum, the Reverse Lashing ability of Windrunners somehow involves Pressure in addition to Gravitation. Which is kind of weird considering that the apparent effect of Reverse Lashing (i.e. increasing the gravitational pull of an object) does not look like it involves Pressure.(Edit: Apparently not. Curse my unreliable memory!!!) Well, since Windrunners seem to have to hold onto their Reverse Lashing target, maybe they have to do a Full Lashing on themselves and the target before Reverse Lashing can occur. Or something. Any thoughts?
 
Anyway, I think the concept of hybrid Surgebinding abilities is very interesting, and I'm sure all the Orders of the Knights Radiant have them. Now that we know most of the Surges, perhaps it would be fun to speculate on what each Order's hybrid abilities are.
 
To start off, I can see the Windrunners having a second hybrid ability. I think they have the ability to use Pressure Surgebinding to manipulate the wind (which is basically the result of pressure differences in the air), and to somehow target the wind with Basic Lashing. By continuosly controlling both Pressure and Gravitation, a Windrunner could actually ride... or "run"... the winds of a highstorm, similar to what Kaladin did in his vision.
 
Next, I have two ideas for hybrid Edgedancer abilities. We know that Lift can control the movement of vines that she used Growth on, right? What if she can make the vines bind themselves to a person with a Friction-augmented grip? Scary! Or, she could stand on the edge of a vine as it Slickly moves on the ground (or any surface, for that matter) like a thin plant-based skateboard... that could choke enemies to death... Yeah, that actually sounds really cool. :P
 
So how about you guys? What other hybrid Surgebinding ideas do you have?

Edited by skaa
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According to the Way of Kings Ars Arcanum, the Reverse Lashing ability of Windrunners somehow involves Pressure in addition to Gravitation. Which is kind of weird considering that the apparent effect of Reverse Lashing (i.e. increasing the gravitational pull of an object) does not look like it involves Pressure. Well, since Windrunners seem to have to hold onto their Reverse Lashing target, maybe they have to do a Full Lashing on themselves and the target before Reverse Lashing can occur. Or something. Any thoughts?

 

Actually the Ars Arcanum does not say the Reverse Lashing involves Pressure.  It describes it as a specialized version of the Basic Lashing, which also uses just Gravitation.  It is the Full Lashing only that is described as involving Pressure.

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Actually the Ars Arcanum does not say the Reverse Lashing involves Pressure.  It describes it as a specialized version of the Basic Lashing, which also uses just Gravitation.  It is the Full Lashing only that is described as involving Pressure.

 

Yes, buttttt it must exist a reason why which order have two surges. I second this theory of hybrid surgebing.

Also, I propose that Jasnah "soulcast ray of death" are a mix of transformation + transportation surges =)

Edited by Natans
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Actually the Ars Arcanum does not say the Reverse Lashing involves Pressure. It describes it as a specialized version of the Basic Lashing, which also uses just Gravitation. It is the Full Lashing only that is described as involving Pressure.

Yikes. I really shouldn't have relied on my faulty memory. Thanks for the correction!

I guess I must have formed a theory in my head some time ago that Reverse Lashing was a hybrid. Anyway, I do feel that it should be possible to use both Surges at the same time. Maybe the Wind-Lashing I described (if it's really possible) will be the hybrid ability for Windrunners.

Edited by skaa
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For the Dustbringers, I imagine part of the problem with exploding things with a touch is that any smoke or shrapnel would ruin your day. But you can use the Friction Surge to just have it all slip off of you, maybe? I'm not sure how the Skybreakers manage with Gravity and Division - perhaps they use Division to create nicely sized blocks of stone they can Lash around?

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I'm not sure how the Skybreakers manage with Gravity and Division - perhaps they use Division to create nicely sized blocks of stone they can Lash around?

 

I guess if they Divide the air above them while Lashing at some area in the sky, they could fly way faster than a Windrunner can because there will be no air resistance to hinder them.

Edited by skaa
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I guess if they Divide the air above them while Lashing at some area in the sky, they could fly way faster than a Windrunner can because there will be no air resistance to hinder them.

But Windrunners could do the same with atmospheric pressure, creating a vacuum. Also, they could increase the atmospheric pressure behind them, further accelerating them. So in terms of pure speed, the Windrunners should be a little ahead. The big difference will be in precision and maneuverability. Szeth notes that Lashing yourself to the sky is very imprecise. But the Windrunners can fine-tune their course with atmospheric pressure, while Skybreakers can't. And they can stop easier, using a cushion of air, while Skybreakers would have to simply reverse their Lashing.
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But Windrunners could do the same with atmospheric pressure, creating a vacuum. Also, they could increase the atmospheric pressure behind them, further accelerating them. So in terms of pure speed, the Windrunners should be a little ahead. The big difference will be in precision and maneuverability. Szeth notes that Lashing yourself to the sky is very imprecise. But the Windrunners can fine-tune their course with atmospheric pressure, while Skybreakers can't. And they can stop easier, using a cushion of air, while Skybreakers would have to simply reverse their Lashing.

 

Ah, I'm not very familiar with atmosphere dynamics, but if what you're saying is true, then Windrunners will probably opt for the more controlled and fine-tuned wind-based way of flying, which might end up slower in the long run but safer (even without wearing Shardplate), while Skybreakers are sort of stuck with the Gravitation-based "fall upwards, then fall downwards" method, relying on Division to keep air-resistance down. Maybe that's why they're called Skybreakers in the first place.

Edited by skaa
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Ah, I'm not very familiar with atmosphere dynamics, but if what you're saying is true, then Windrunners will probably opt for the more controlled and fine-tuned wind-based way of flying, which might end up slower in the long run but safer (even without wearing Shardplate), while Skybreakers are sort of stuck with the Gravitation-based "fall upwards, then fall downwards" method, relying on Division to keep air-resistance down. Maybe that's why they're called Skybreakers in the first place.

It really depends on the Surgebinder. Someone cautious like me will stay slow with wind-based flying, while someone more daredevil-ish will be flying circles around his fellow surgebinders at supersonic speeds. The key is the choice: Skybreakers, while they can go nearly as fast, have nothing to break their fall, and Order 10 are slowpokes, with "just" car level speeds.

Oh, and back to the OP.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the Lightweaver's hybrid capabilities. Just imagine: you Soulcast a pit of acid, then make it look like it's just another section of ground. The possibilities are endless.

Also, what could you do with the combination of friction and division? I'm really drawing a blank here. It's already hard to enough to find the hybrid abilities of Edgedancers, but Dustbringers are even harder. Derp. Maybe I should actually read the thread first before asking questions.

Edited by PorridgeBrick
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I'm really looking forward to seeing the Lightweaver's hybrid capabilities. Just imagine: you Soulcast a pit of acid, then make it look like it's just another section of ground. The possibilities are endless.

^^^This. Ever since it occurred to me just how perfect Shallan's natural artistic and nature cataloging abilities are for a lightweaver I've been dying to see what kind of chaos she is gonna cause for people. She'll make Loki look like a cheap hack when it comes to illusions.

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I've got one for Windrunners. When someone is bugging you Pressure-Lash their feet to the ground but Gravity-Lash their whole body upwards. With all that blood rushing to their head they'll feel like they've been glued to the ceiling. Headaches and vertigo a go go Mwa Ha Ha haa!!!!

I think perhaps you would be happy in the Steelheart universe.

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  • 1 month later...

Allow me to resurrect this thread of mine to quote a recent WoB that is relevant to the topic:

 

Do Surges shared by adjacent Orders act the same? (This was a long, involved question and I paraphrased

A: Mainly, yes. The mix of the two Surges will modify their use slightly, but for the most part, individual Surges are themselves. When you see Skybreakers use the Gravity Surge, it will look much the same as when Windrunners use it.

 

 

I take this as a confirmation that hybrid abilities are a thing.

 

That is all. :)

Edited by skaa
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That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be full on new abilities. It just says their use will be modified slightly. It will probably be stuff like abrasion and gravitation. (Just an example) Gravitation to fly, and using abrasion to give yourself less wind resistance for an extra boost of speed.

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That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be full on new abilities. It just says their use will be modified slightly. It will probably be stuff like abrasion and gravitation. (Just an example) Gravitation to fly, and using abrasion to give yourself less wind resistance for an extra boost of speed.

 

But Brandon specifically said the "mix of the two Surges". The difference in the use of each Surge in that mixture might be "slight", but it's still a mixture.

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But Brandon specifically said the "mix of the two Surges". The difference in the use of each Surge in that mixture might be "slight", but it's still a mixture.

 

The answer was paraphrased, so it's not certain at all that Brandon said that. The example given was that Skybreaker's use of Gravity will look the same as the Windrunners, so they'll still be able to fly.

 

The audio is available, so perhaps someone will take a stab at transcribing it, though.

Edited by Moogle
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RShara's transcription of the Sugarhouse signing has this bit:
 

Q:  Different surges are shared by different orders.  Do they work the same for the different orders?
A:  They work basically the same though there is some...sometimes the combination will produce some side effects that are unique, but the basic powers are the same.

Edited by skaa
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