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Baseless Speculation on Worldhopping


Kadrok

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Because I couldn't find one already, I thought I should start a thread purposed around thinking about what the denizens of each Shardworld might use to Worldhop. So guys... hop to it!

 

 

Scadrial

 

I'll start. Worldhopping is bound to utilise a system of Investiture. There are three systems of investiture on Scadrial: Hemalurgy, Allomancy and Feruchemy.

 

What system?

Hemalurgy mostly doesn't introduce any new powers into the mix, it just rearranges properties that are already there, so I think we can safely rule it out.

 

Feruchemy also tends to work with something that is already there, strength, health, whatever. It is hard to imagine what a Feruchemist would have to store to tap into worldhopping/shadesmar access, and furthermore it existed pre-ascension and was likely studied to some degree by the scholarly Worldbringers (there's bound to have been at least a couple who looked into how their powers worked). Granted, they may not have had access to all the metals. Mostly on the basis of Feruchemy's tendency not to introducing new powers as such, let's tentatively put it aside.

 

Unlike Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, Allomancy has effects which go beyond the kinds of things humans can generally do. Tin and Pewter may just enhance what is already there like Feruchemy does, but the other basic metals introduce new abilities, such as manipulating emotions and the physical world, perceiving other possible worlds or the future and manipulating time. Given that I see accessing Shadesmar/Worldhopping as a new ability in this sense, rather than a manipulation of what is already there, I would suppose that Allomancy is the key to accessing Worldhopping/Shadesmar.

 

 

What metal?

Supposing I (and whoever else has thought of this before me) am correct, I would further think it is unlikely that one of the ordinary (16) metals has the hidden key to Shadesmar* which leaves us with Godmetals and their Alloys.

Lerasium is tied into rewriting sDNA, and I imagine it's hidden functions have to do with granting other systems of investiture, so let's tentatively put it aside; likewise, its alloys make Mistings.

That leaves us with Atium and its alloys (barring another Shard showing up and integrating itself into Scadrial, and gaining a Godmetal...) Here's where my speculation reaches its heights: from a narrative perspective, and in terms of how Malatium works as a basis of comparison, I don't think one of the random Atium alloys allows worldhopping... it just doesn't seem to fit in my mind. Granted, Atium alloys give a variety of Temporal and Mental effects, which certainly seems to fit with Shadesmar as the Cognitive realm... but one of the Atium alloys doesn't seem to fit nearly as well as... Atium itself.

 

 

Atium as Scadrial's Worldhopping Key

Let me go on the record and say I doubt that I thought of this first. In fact, I vaguely remember reading someone put forward Atium as the Scadrian Worldhopping key before.

 

What I will do here, is discuss some of the pros of Atium being the Worldhopping key for Scadria:l

  • Shadesmar is the Cognitive Realm and Shadesmar is seemingly the way Worldhopping happens. Of the two God metals Atium is the one tied into the Mental and Temporal aspects (with Lerasium offering Physical and Enhancement) and thus it seems to fit with Shadesmar.
  • We know of a very clear Temporal effect of Atium: seeing the future. But a mental one is missing. "But wait, Atium also expands the mind!" I hear you say, but as Kurk has pointed our to me recently, ALL Allomancy has the effect of expanding your mind in order to use it. Atium's mind expansion is simply so a Seer can deal with the rush of information given by seeing the possible futures. If Atium's domain is Mental/Temporal, we have only seen the Temporal part, leaving the mental part neatly open for Shadesmar access.
  • A random Atium alloy being the key would be narratively clunky (as discussed above)
  • In a similar fashion to the above point, Atium being the key to accessing Shadesmar would be narratively neat, because it would balance Atium and Lerasium more. Lerasium is clearly a far more valuable metal as it stands because it makes you the most powerful Allomancer in the world. Atium's future sight is powerful (mostly only in combat) granted, but is far far more limited than Lerasium, and Atium's Hemalurgic prowess (as the master spike), while somewhat more balancing, still doesn't seem to quite even them out, especially if Lerasium can be attuned to allow access to other investitures (jury still out). Giving Atium this function thus not only fits with Atium's allomantic properties, but it increases its worth to more of a "God metal" level.
  • To build on the above point, it also involves both Preservation and Ruin. If one of Atium's allomantic properties is allowing Worldhopping/Shadesmar Access, then that would mean the key to Worldhopping on Scadrial requires both Preservation (Allomancy) and Ruin (Atium).
  • Note that under normal circumstances there are no Godmetal Mistings. This means that a Mistborn would normally be required for worldhopping. Also note that without Lerasium bleeding into the bloodlines, Mistborn aren't exactly going to crop up. Thus in some sense Lerasium and Atium are both needed for Worldhopping... Lerasium to enable Mistborn (for the next generations) and Atium to power the hopping. This makes for an interesting side theory: What if part of Preservation's set up of the Wells (which I believe generate the Lerasium beads in the same manner as the pits generate Atium, given that both seem to come with some kind of dirt casing... the Pottery and the Geode respectively) was to enable the Scadrian's to worldhop, perhaps to potentially escape or go for help if needed? This certainly seems to fit with how much Atium and Lerasium are generated by the shardpools... you don't nearly need as much Lerasium as Atium for worldhopping to work in the way I describe, and the proportions in which the pools generate their metal reflect this.
  • It fits with a Worldhopping Demoux

 

 

This are just my thoughts, feel free to discuss Scadrial Worldhopping access, or Worldhopping access for any other Shard-world!

 

 

 

 

Footnote

*Barring something awesome like discovering that proper mastery of Allomantic Gold lets you slip into Shadesmar... having the whole double minded split perspective thing seems very cognitive and otherworldly to me, just saying...

Edited by Kadrok
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Interesting.  I've always been of the impression that Atium is the way for Scadrians to enter Shadesmar, but you make some good points.  I wonder what you would have to do differently while burning the Atium in order to enter Shadesmar.

 

While I love the metallic arts, they seem far less robust than the magics of other worlds.  I believe that's because Preservation and Ruin are both primarily physical, and while they rock at what they do, it does seem kind of unfair.

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Interesting.  I've always been of the impression that Atium is the way for Scadrians to enter Shadesmar, but you make some good points.  I wonder what you would have to do differently while burning the Atium in order to enter Shadesmar.

 

While I love the metallic arts, they seem far less robust than the magics of other worlds.  I believe that's because Preservation and Ruin are both primarily physical, and while they rock at what they do, it does seem kind of unfair.

 

But, they are the most portable.  Which, in the overall arc, is a nice benefit.  Also hemalurgy is the most versatile since it can steal traits and abilities from non-Scadrian systems.

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Thank you all for your comments. I did intend this thread to address more than Scadrian worldhopping so if anyone else feels the need to pipe in with how Biochromatic Breath can be used to worldhop, or whatever, go right ahead!

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I think AonDor is pretty straightforward: open a portal to Shadesmar. Things get much more difficult with other Sel systems. It would take a lot of dead monks for the Dakhor to travel to Shadesmar,It would be some ca-razy Kung Fu for a ChayShan practitioner to get their body into Shadesmar (though I think this is actually feasible), and as for Forging? That's one heck of a stamp: Stamped object has been incorporeal all along,, thereby being un-stampable.

For Nalthis, we need more information on breath inversion (I think that's the term Vasher uses for hiding a divine breath), and what he did to the little girl opens up a whole new world for Breath.

It could also be something limited to Returned, as opposed to Breaths as a whole.

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I don't know.  On its face, it seems unlikely.  But, Shadesmar is some funky business when it gets down to it.  I don't discount the possibility of a built-in hack in the system.  It could even be something along the lines of the wall and the window wanting to be beautiful, more than what they were.  Could not a door aspire or desire to be something significant like that?  Beats the heck out of leading to the tool shed or the outhouse.

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I don't think so. The window "wanting to be beautiful" was a function of it having once been stained glass. It wasn't a case of a window that was always just a regular window spontaneously wanting to be stained glass. There has to be some seed there.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Only if it were plausible for that door to have been made into a "portal" in its past, and even that assumes that Forgery can Forge the effects of other magic systems (making a corpse be Invested with Breath, for instance).

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Breath is an investiture though.  That would be akin to forging someone to be an allomancer.  I don't see why there would be any reason why it could not forge the effects of a system, particularly one from Sel.  After all, they would both rely upon the Dor, neh?

 

Edit: Nevermind, disregard this post.  it was made in a moment of stark ignorance of the context for your comment Kurk.

Edited by Shardlet
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Hmmm... forgery is a magic system, though. Maybe I'm off-toping a bit, but (for example) if a Selish forged a Scadrian to rewrite it's history and make him visit the well of the ascension and eat Lerasium, wouldn't that be plausible? The problem is that we don't know yet how do the magic systems of different planets act between them. But if hemalurgy can steal an hability, I can imagine a soul stamp (a complex one) able to do that.

 

Backing on the topic, I find the idea of the atium beeing the door of Shadesmar interesting. But if I'm not wrong BS said that we haven't yet all the keys for knowing how it works and, over all, we are missing something important that we still don't know. Interesting anyways ;) +1

 

Edit: Absolutely right. memory colapse. Thanks Kurkistan.

Edited by Gaelan
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Doesn't it make more sense that the way to get to Shadesmar using Awakening is along the lines of Vasher's Commands that manipulate your own Breath? I imagine you'd need to be of a very high Heightening, but that seems more likely to me than Commanding a doorway to let you in.

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That was my approach in my first post. If Vasher can make the little girl forget things, he's screwing with her cognitive aspect. Pair this with the "mental gymnastics" Vasher performs on his divine Breath and it's possible a Returned, or even just a very skilled Awakener, could literally think themselves into Shadesmar.

Edited by Pechvarry
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It may require a specific minimum heightening.  But I...in my infinite wisdom <chuckle, chuckle>...(and my in depth study consisting of a single reading of Warbreaker) choose to believe that it has more to do with mastery of commands than the number of breaths one has.  I would also expect that it would require an expenditure something like 5 or 10 breaths or something.  This is baseless speculation after all, and so I choose this brilliant method.

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Forging could also be as simple as stamping a doorway to become a portal.  Likewise, with awakening, it seems perhaps conceivable that a doorway could be awakened and commanded to become a portal using X amount of breath.

 

I can think of one inherent problem in trying to achieve such a feat: forging relies on having some knowledge of what you are forging the subject to be. Forging seems an unlikely art to be used in an exploratory manner.

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Well, there's a reason world-hopping is exceedingly rare. Brandon has made several references to things different magic systems would be capable of if "you really knew exactly what you were doing." So for the purposes of this, let's just say "how would Hoid world-hop if he could only use said magic system?"

For Breath cost, for some reason I like exactly one for the Lifeless connection. Perhaps one Breath to build yourself a sort of "astral construct" equivalent. A purely cognitive You. What becomes of your body while you're away, and how you go about manifesting elsewhere, I wouldn't know how to solve.

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