Derethil's voyage

[DocHoliday]

Okay so we all know Hoid has some secret meaning/metaphor when he told Kaladin the story of Derethil' s voyage. Perhaps there's a message, or perhaps he was just trying to help steer Kaladin out of his depression.

Has anyone noticed the direction of Derethil' s voyage though? Throughout WoK, everyone says that the Origin is to the East. Derethil sailed West. Why? The Origin appears to be common knowledge even amongst Dark-Eyed peasants. Derethil's vessel was supposed to be capable of surviving a Highstorm' s wrath, so it's not like he was trying to ride the band of clear weather between storms. Any ideas

EDIT: this theory has been disproved; Derethil voyage was not headed for the Origin.

Edited July 10, 2013 by DocHoliday

[Phantom Monstrosity]

He wanted to sneak up on the origin from behind and surprise it.

[DocHoliday]

I swear you're a stalker Phantom. LoL first post again

[hoser]

Okay so we all know Hoid has some secret meaning/metaphor when he told Kaladin the story of Derethil' s voyage. Perhaps there's a message, or perhaps he was just trying to help steer Kaladin out of his depression.

 

Has anyone noticed the direction of Derethil' s voyage though? Throughout WoK, everyone says that the Origin is to the East. Derethil sailed West. Why? The Origin appears to be common knowledge even amongst Dark-Eyed peasants. Derethil's vessel was supposed to be capable of surviving a Highstorm' s wrath, so it's not like he was trying to ride the band of clear weather between storms.  Any ideas

The Highstorm(s?) always come from the East.  Presumably the winds are prevailing from the East.  If they understand that the world is round, they would know they can get anywhere sailing West.  Surviving a Highstorm is not the same as sailing upwind through it and prevailing winds.  Yes, I know you can tack, but this lubber thinks running before the wind will get you there much faster.   

 

Edit: fix typo

Edited July 8, 2013 by hoser

[DocHoliday]

A ship surviving a storm is much different from sailing a storm. I don't s see anyone even considering going out into a Highstorm on land, much less working the sails or manning a rudder at sea.

Also I'm not sure people know the world is round on Roshar, at least there's no mention of it. The kingdoms we know of all lie on one massive continent. And it might even be the Pangaea of Roshar.

 

This is also more a Theory of mine, but I think the storms stop at Urithuru, not continue around the world back to the Origin. There's mention that people wanted to build the city in the West, closest to Honor. It makes a degree of sense that Odium is at the Origin and Honor was at Urithuru.

[hoser]

A ship surviving a storm is much different from sailing a storm. I don't s see anyone even considering going out into a Highstorm on land, much less working the sails or manning a rudder at sea.

Also I'm not sure people know the world is round on Roshar, at least there's no mention of it. The kingdoms we know of all lie on one massive continent. And it might even be the Pangaea of Roshar.

 

This is also more a Theory of mine, but I think the storms stop at Urithuru, not continue around the world back to the Origin. There's mention that people wanted to build the city in the West, closest to Honor. It makes a degree of sense that Odium is at the Origin and Honor was at Urithuru.

Kaladin's dream has him riding the storm to the other end of the continent.

From Chapter 46:

Before long, he neared the western ocean.

Since Derethil went West, he presumably started to the West of the continent, further suggesting that the Highstorms make it to the western coast where they are not blocked by the mountains around Shinovar.  This limits the locations of Urithiru, per your theory. 

 

Derethil's goals (as told by Hoid) seemed to be two-fold: sail the Highstorm and find the spawning-place of the VoidBringers.  He left:

on a day when a Highstorm brewed

Apparently his goal was not the Origin.  I believe the Highstorms are most violent on the East and weaken as they cross the continent. 

 

Based on your initial post, I assumed that Derethil's goal was the Origin, so I constructed a logical theory to explain their traveling west.  Given that they were not actually trying to get to the Origin, it is not necessary for the Rosharians to know whether the world is round or not. 

I feel certain the Radiants knew and I don't think they would have hidden it, but I can't prove it right now.  The Stormwardens have probably figured it out also, if it wasn't otherwise known, with their ability to predict the storms.  But, either way, it is irrelevant. 

[Govika]

Sorry for the repition post hoser, I didn't see you posted similar stuff until after I posted.

(All quotes are in Hardcover version.)

I wondered this as well. We know from Rysn's interlude in TWoK that Highstorms break apart before they reach Shinovar (last sentence pg 432). Since Shinovar comprises most of the Western coast of Roshar, we can guess that Aimia receives little to no Highstorm weather and therefore nothing further West.

Unfortunately Chapter 46 does not say when Kaladin arrives in Shinovar as the storm or if he does at all. It merely says "he neared the western ocean" (pg. 648). I believe something as strange as grass would be mentioned if he flew over Shinovar.

So, the story must have either taken place when the mountains of Shinovar did not exist, or he sailed from Iri, Alm, Liafor, Steen, Tukar, or even Aimia. (Interesting to note on pg. 803, Derethil's mission was "to seek the origin of the Voidbringers, the place where they had spawned." Is that speculation?)

DocHoliday brings up a good point on the shape of the world. We don't know if this is the only continent. Maybe voidbringers existed on other continents and Derethil sailed West towards the Origin as opposed to away from it. Hoid does not give us clear details.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Govika

[Meg]

Tossing in: 

 

 

 

Q: Does the world map in the Way of Kings show all of the landmasses of Roshar? Does that make the continent on Roshar a Pangaea-like supercontinent? And as I think about it, are there tectonic plates on Roshar?

 

A: It is a supercontinent. I won't say there is NOTHING out there, but (unlike Scadrial) there is not another full continent. Plate tectonics are not a factor on the supercontinent.

source

[DocHoliday]

I'm a little confused by your post Hoser. I read your Hoid' s story, and you're quite correct, he wasn't headed to the Origin, I think I just connected the two in my head. As far as the Storms not making it to Urithuru, you just started that the Storms make it to the Western coast. If Urithuru is on the continent then this would disprove my idea, but I had the impression from the death rattles that Urithuru was not on the continent but somewhere West of it.

 

Meg' s WoB helps support this.

 

As to my original Thread, the whole premises has been disproved

[hoser]

I'm a little confused by your post Hoser. I read your Hoid' s story, and you're quite correct, he wasn't headed to the Origin, I think I just connected the two in my head. As far as the Storms not making it to Urithuru, you just started that the Storms make it to the Western coast. If Urithuru is on the continent then this would disprove my idea, but I had the impression from the death rattles that Urithuru was not on the continent but somewhere West of it.

 

Meg' s WoB helps support this.

 

As to my original Thread, the whole premises has been disproved

Confusion! Confusion everywhere!

 

Your OP seems to assume that Derethil is headed toward the Origin (but never says so) and asks why he went West.  I try to help by providing an explanation before actually reading the text.  You dispute it.  Finally I read the text and find that he wasn't headed toward the Origin at all, answering your question. 

 

I am glad that you are posting, helping give life to our little obsession.  But what do you want from me?  You ask for an explanation.  I give you an explanation, then find that the premise of your post is incorrect.  You could be grateful, or at least embarrassed that you didn't reread the section yourself to make a better OP. 

 

You talk about the storms stopping at Urithiru, but not where you think Urithiru is.  I have theories about Urithiru, but really, it's a big mystery.  Some people think it's in Shadesmar!  I believe Urithiru is in mountains somewhere near the middle of the continent, maybe at the Veden Silent Mount or near where the Nightwatcher is. 

 

Given what I know, the only help I can give you is to tell you that the Highstorms apparently reach the western edge of the continent except where Shinovar is protected from them by mountains.  If you had thought Urithiru was on the continent, it would be something to work around.  I'm doing my best to help, but you could help me help you. 

 

There are apparent inconsistencies in the information we have.  The storms are mild near the Purelake, blocked by the mountains around Shinovar, and the Reshi sea seems to be navigable.  The storms can't really go East to West without hitting one of those except for a little section near Steen. 

But apparently Derethil went West in a dangerous Highstorm.  Did Kaladin end his dream and Derethil sail from near Steen?  Do the storms pick up speed over the western continent or temporarily lose it near the Purelake? If Derethil left from near Steen, why did he think the Voidbringers spawned in that direction? Aimia is in that direction.  Is that why Aimia got scoured? How real is Kaladin's dream or Hoid's story?

[DocHoliday]

okay friend, chill for a second. I agreed with you, Derethil wasn't headed to the Origin. I  should  have reread the tale first, admittedly so, and I already admitted that my OP has been disproved. What more do  you  want from me? I want aware I had to specifically tell anyone I was embarrassed, since that failure was self-evident.

 

Now to return to my confusion: I just didn't understand your assertion why the Storms making it to the Western edge of the continent should limit the location of Urithuru.  My claim was that Urithuru is where the Storms stops. I further expounded to say that if Urithuru was on the continent this would also be disproved.

 

As to the location of Urithuru, the exact location is a mystery. If you want my take, its the polar opposite of the Origin and the Highstorms travel the globe and stop at Urithuru. I have no evidence, it's just fancy; as I said, just a pet theory.

[hoser]

 you just started that the Storms make it to the Western coast. If Urithuru is on the continent then this would disprove my idea,

This is all I got, (wo)man (not to be presumptuous).  Doc, please don't shoot me. 

but I had the impression from the death rattles that Urithuru was not on the continent but somewhere West of it.

I did not know that this is where you thought Urithiru is.  Tangentially, we should find out which mystery has the most disparate theories attached to it.  Urithiru's location might well win.  

Meg' s WoB helps support this.

 

As to my original Thread, the whole premises has been disproved

 

 

okay friend, chill for a second. I agreed with you, Derethil wasn't headed to the Origin. I  should  have reread the tale first, admittedly so, and I already admitted that my OP has been disproved. What more do  you  want from me? I want aware I had to specifically tell anyone I was embarrassed, since that failure was self-evident.

Well, you could edit the opening post to include the conclusion.  Out of consideration for others, so they don't have to wade through our brilliant repartee to just have a Rosanna Rosannadanna moment. 

Now to return to my confusion: I just didn't understand your assertion why the Storms making it to the Western edge of the continent should limit the location of Urithuru.  My claim was that Urithuru is where the Storms stops. I further expounded to say that if Urithuru was on the continent this would also be disproved.

This again, is all I was saying.  I apologize for having contributed to your confusion.  Unlike the intrepid Meg, my native language is english (murrikan dialect), so I have no excuse for the confusion I cause.

As to the location of Urithuru, the exact location is a mystery. If you want my take, its the polar opposite of the Origin and the Highstorms travel the globe and stop at Urithuru. I have no evidence, it's just fancy; as I said, just a pet theory.

Cool.  I think my theory about the location of Urithiru might be the most boring.  I don't know if you caught that, assuming a somewhat similar to earth orbit, the northernmost part of the supercontinent seems to be warm.  That suggests to me that there is a northern hemisphere for Brandon to put stuff.  I hope we find out where Urithiru is in WoR, and I think we will.

[Shardlet]

  Out of consideration for others, so they don't have to wade through our brilliant repartee to just have a Rosanna Rosannadanna moment. 

 

Upvote for the beautiful reference to a fabulous classic SNL character, excellently portrayed by Gilda Radner.

[DocHoliday]

My apologies then for not editing the OP. I'm not fully conversant with etiquette on the forum.

I'm not attacking you Hoser, I had the impression that there was a typo in your post, hence my confusion. If you have information conflicting with my ideas, by all means poke holes in my Theories. I'm not omniscient and I'm not offended by debate.

 

As for your idea for Urithuru location in the northern hemisphere. Distinctly possible. With a southern portion of the continent reportedly being being very cold, and the Purelake being warm enough to never need a shirt. Considering the eraticness of the seasons though I don't think an Earth like orbit likely.

 

BTW Rosanne reference made me lol

[hoser]

@GunSlinger

Thanks for the appreciation and being open to my suggestion about the OP.