Just Some Thoughts

[Mister_Fawx]

SO!

We know that Hoid is on Roshar, and he basically admits to Kaladin when they meet that he once held a Shard and presumably gave it up. We also know that Hoid definitely worldhops, and adapts to the culture and styles of every world he visits. We also know that Hoid is looking for someone on Roshar, but he spends most of his time hiding from him. Linking back to the Survival Shard that Sanderson alluded to, could it be possible that Hoid himself once held that Shard?

Here's my complete thought, extrapolated from all of this information.

 

Hoid got ahold of the Survival Shard, and because of its Intent, he spent a while running and hiding from Odium. After discovering that several Shards had been Splintered, he gave up the Survival Shard due to guilt, and now spends his time world hopping and trying to repair what damage he can, or at least learn as much about Odium and the other Shards as possible before confronting Rayse and trying to make up for his prior activities.

 

Just some thoughts I figured I should voice, since this is the place for all that kind of thought.

[Senor Feesh]

Hey Fawx, welcome to the boards!

 

May I ask why you think Hoid once held a Shard? That's not an idea I think I've seen anyone mention before.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

May I ask why you think Hoid once held a Shard? That's not an idea I think I've seen anyone mention before.

 

Well, Brandon used to sound unsure about whether or not Hoid was a shard... not sure if that's really evidence per se, but...

[Mister_Fawx]

Thanks! I'm excited to be here.

 

I wasn't certain that it was a new idea or not, but I figured I'd mention it here.

“I began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page. That was another thing I stole. Myself. Another time, I was named for a rock. 
“A pretty one, I hope.” 
A beautiful one,” the man said. “And one that became completely worthless for my wearing it.”

 

That's a direct quote from Hoid's conversation with Kaladin. We know that whoever holds a Shard is affected by its Intent, and that they become known by the Shard they hold, not by their original name (eg. Ruin and Preservation being called by their Shards rather than by Ati and Leras). Hoid has a habit of playing down major events as part of his mystery. And he says right there that he was named for a rock, which sounds like Hoid's way of saying that he held a Shard once, and that he did a terrible job with it, or is ashamed of how he used it.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

That name thing is a reference to Liar of Partinel. The first few chapters of that are actually up on the website.

[Mister_Fawx]

Right. I am familiar with the fact that Hoid stole his identity from someone else. However, that doesn't explain why he says that he was once named for a rock, specifically: "A beautiful one,” the man said. “And one that became completely worthless for my wearing it."

I can't think that he means anything besides a Shard. All of the characters we know of that held a Shard become known as the Shard, not as themselves. So if Hoid held a Shard, he would have been known as that Shard rather than as Hoid. I might just reformat this point into a Theory post all its own.

[Senor Feesh]

That's a most interesting notion - I've not read the Liar chapters, so I don't know if there's anything in them which would support or contradict your idea, but I can see your logic, and based on that quote alone it may indeed have merit. Nice spot.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I don't see why you'd refer to a shard as a rock?

[Mister_Fawx]

Because he's Hoid. He made a joke about dropping his pants to show Dalinar his 'spheres' earlier in the book. He literally makes his livelihood in the Alethi court by making light of things and joking around. Why not refer to a Shard as a rock when talking to someone who doesn't know anything about Shards yet?

[Shardlet]

I get what you are saying Fawx. But I am inclined to agree with Phantom.  If we are to take Liar to be at generally accurate (it is unpublished so it is not canon) about his feeling's towards his master (who bore the name Hoid), and his feelings of unworthiness of bearing that name, then it would readily explain the part about it becoming worthless for his wearing it. 

 

As to a shard being described as a rock, well, to our minds having seen stuff like the Dark Crystal the concept of a shard being a piece of a big crystal readily recommends itself.  However, we really don't know the nature of Adonalsium and the physical substance of the Shards thereof (not speaking of the holders of the Shards).  I think it may be a bit of a premature leap to say that Hoid once held a Shard and especially to particularly identify the Shard which he held.  It makes for a compelling narrative, but WoB says it is extremely uncommon for a Shard to change hands once it has been taken up.  And take into account that we already know of two Shards (Ruin and Preservation) that have changed hands, it makes it even more unlikely that Hoid once held a Shard. 

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that the scenario you have layed out seems unlikely to me.  Like I said, it is a compelling narrative.

 

And one more thought to make this response even longer.  Elantris is the earliest (chronologically speaking) canon story we have in the cosmere  And Hoid was there in the flesh on Sel.  Now, how much time passed between the Shattering and the events of Elantris?  Only Brandon, Peter, and maybe a couple of fortunate/unfortunate? souls know. 

[Mister_Fawx]

I'm actually reading the full collection of chapters of Liar now, so I might be fully educated on what information is presented there.

The quote does not refer to his having stolen his name, but his being named for a rock, indicated by the fact that the beginning of the statement was in response to Kaladin's comment about the beauty of the rock in question.

 

It is true, that we have no idea what the proper make-up of Adonalsium looks like or how it operates, so it's hard to say whether or not he is referring to a Shard or some other vague object we have yet to learn about.

The important thing to consider is that Hoid is much better travelled than basically anyone else in the Cosmere that we know of, having been to all Shardworlds we have seen thus far. He presumably understands the workings of each magic system created by the Shards of those worlds, as well as knowing the names of all of the original Shardholders. He is confirmed to have the bead of Lerasium taken from the WoA, as well as using Shadesmar to worldhop, and he is a Lightweaver to begin with. The thought that he might have undertaken that kind of journey, as well as involving himself in the events occurring on each world, after having held a Shard and done things he isn't proud of with it doesn't sound like much of a stretch to me. It'd explain why he has such interest in the events on each world and in the effects of the Shards and so forth, as well as giving him an emotional investment in the defeat of Rayse/Odium.

[Isomere]

Theory: Rayse splintered the shard Hoid held.