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About Splintering a Shard and how it affects magic systems


Telcontar

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This is a theory that has slowly build up in my head until I read Pagerunners post where he states an idea which gave me my final piece to complete a new idea which I very much hope you’ll like.

In this post I am going to discuss the effects of the Splintering of a Shard on the magic system that is powered by the Splintered Shard. To be precise, I’ll only discuss end-positive magic systems aka manifestations of Investiture.

In just a few words, I am going to theorize that a magic system is affected by the Splintering of its Shard. We know that Honor, as well as Aona and Skai are Splintered. Both Surgebinding and AonDor are very probably end-positive manifestations of Investiture. I’ll describe how I think that the magic system worked differently when the Shard was intact.

An end-positive manifestation of Investiture permits the user of it to draw on an external source of power (AoL Ars Arcanum). The best example we have for it is Allomancy. When Vin burned her metals, she drew on Preservation so she could enhance her abilities. There was no visible source for it, she was granted some part of Preservation.

But would that work in the same way, if Preservation was Splintered?

Let me explain how I see what happens to the Shard when it is Splintered. I imagine a Shard as a huge body of energy in the spiritual realm, directed by the mind added by the Shardholder. When Splintered, the Shardholder is killed, taking away the cognitive aspect. Along this, the huge body of energy is dispersed into smaller parts – shards or splinters. What was one ocean of energy before, is now an infinite amount of tiny puddles all over the spiritual realm.

My theory is based on the idea that one would not be able to draw directly on a Splintered Shard. One would need a way to use the tiny puddles.

Those tiny puddles however, keep the original intent of the Shard. I say that those are not Splinters in the definition given by BS. The puddles are floating around in the spiritual realm, attracted to anything in relation to the original intent of the Shard.

BS has said about the theory that Seons are Splinters that the line of theorizing is very close to being correct. I propose that they are a result of a Splintered Shard, ie they're not Splinters but splinters.

To see whether my theory has any value, let’s analyze what we know about AonDor and Surgebinding.

AonDor

To use AonDor, an Elantrian (made so by the Shaod) needs to draw a symbol, called an Aon in the air. What is strange, is that without the amplification of the city of Elantris, Aons produce such a small effect, that it doesn't really help in anything.

I propose that this is because Devotion has been Splintered. Before, the Shards were still complete and Aons worked much better, actually producing a real effect without the help of Elantris.

When Odium killed Aona and Skai, people figured out a way to make Aons work like before. And that way was Elantris.

If anybody knows something about the chronology relating to the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion and the construction, please help me out.

Back to my image of an ocean of energy for an intact Shard and tiny puddles for a Splintered one. The intact Shard has a mind, the puddles lack a significant cognitive aspect. Instead of floating around the spiritual realm as one being, the tiny puddles of energy float around but aimlessly. Following their intent, they are attracted to whatever Shard they originally come from.

So, how do Elantrians use the tiny puddles? I propose that the Shaod is actually that. Remnants of the Shard Devotion seeking devoted people to strike them. Which makes the person an Elantrian.The glowing of Elantrians is a sign to me that they have a big amount of pure spiritual energy added to themselves.

By drawing an Aon, Elantrians release part of the added energy. Remember when Raoden was attacked by the Dor? That was because he continued being devoted to something even after he was transformed into an Elantrian. So he continued to accumulate spiritual energy, which led to the attacks. When finally making his Aon work, there was so much energy inside him, the Aon produced an effect it would have produced with an intact Shard.

Part of my theory is that before Devotion was Splintered by Odium, Elantrians looked like normal people, only with the ability to draw powerful Aons and make them work, because whenever an Aon was drawn, the Elantrian drew the energy from an external source (Devotion).

Surgebinding

In contrast to AonDor, we actually have some small information about Surgebinding pre-Splintering. Brandon has confirmed that Honor still lived when the Heralds left, so the KR-scene we see in one of Dalinar's vision features some Surgebinders who were able to Surgebind before Honor was Splintered.

We've already discussed on several occasions how the KR seemed to be more powerful and to be able to do things the modern Surgebinders weren't able to do.

I theorize that this is at least partly because Honor was Splintered in-between.

Surgebinding requires someone to use Stormlight, to capture it in gemstones and keep it until one can use it. To me this doesn't really fit the description of an end-positive manifestation of Investiture. They draw in spiritual energy from an external source. Of course Stormlight is an external source, but I understand the external source more like an unlimited one like an intact Shard.

The KR did not seem to have extra-Stormlight with them, but the way they used their abilities, compared with what we've seen from Kaladin, their Stormlight would have been used up pretty fast, with all that jumping around. But instead of being used up, the KR continued to glow themselves, their Plate and Blade glowed as well.

I propose that before the Splintering, the KR also needed to bond a spren, but the spren provided the connection to an intact Shard, giving Surgebinders the ability to draw directly on Honor without having to rely on Stormlight stored in gems.

Without Honor intact to draw directly on him, Surgebinders need to draw on tiny puddles of spiritual energy of Honor: Stormlight.

I'll probably need to revise this, but I'll post it anyway cause it's so much fun to discuss baseless speculation like this.

Edited by Telcontar
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In Mistborn when Preservation destroys itself it forms a mist everywhere that people can tap for magic.

In liar of partinel there's magic white fungi which transforms creatures and screws up everything.

In way of kings with honor and cultivation splintered there are massive storms of energy which can be tapped for power.

Aona and Shai are splintered and so their power can be tapped from land formations.

It's my assumption that when a shard is destroyed their power is turned into a gas or a solid or a liquid which you can use. The puddles of power as you said.

Except it's more like a sea of power than a puddle.

Edit. Anyone out there who's read the original liar of partinel or dragonsteel, any more detail from their magic systems?

Edited by Nepene
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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a theory that has slowly build up in my head until I read Pagerunners post where he states an idea which gave me my final piece to complete a new idea which I very much hope you’ll like.

In this post I am going to discuss the effects of the Splintering of a Shard on the magic system that is powered by the Splintered Shard. To be precise, I’ll only discuss end-positive magic systems aka manifestations of Investiture.

In just a few words, I am going to theorize that a magic system is affected by the Splintering of its Shard. We know that Honor, as well as Aona and Skai are Splintered. Both Surgebinding and AonDor are very probably end-positive manifestations of Investiture. I’ll describe how I think that the magic system worked differently when the Shard was intact.

An end-positive manifestation of Investiture permits the user of it to draw on an external source of power (AoL Ars Arcanum). The best example we have for it is Allomancy. When Vin burned her metals, she drew on Preservation so she could enhance her abilities. There was no visible source for it, she was granted some part of Preservation.

But would that work in the same way, if Preservation was Splintered?

Let me explain how I see what happens to the Shard when it is Splintered. I imagine a Shard as a huge body of energy in the spiritual realm, directed by the mind added by the Shardholder. When Splintered, the Shardholder is killed, taking away the cognitive aspect. Along this, the huge body of energy is dispersed into smaller parts – shards or splinters. What was one ocean of energy before, is now an infinite amount of tiny puddles all over the spiritual realm.

My theory is based on the idea that one would not be able to draw directly on a Splintered Shard. One would need a way to use the tiny puddles.

Those tiny puddles however, keep the original intent of the Shard. I say that those are not Splinters in the definition given by BS. The puddles are floating around in the spiritual realm, attracted to anything in relation to the original intent of the Shard.

BS has said about the theory that Seons are Splinters that the line of theorizing is very close to being correct. I propose that they are a result of a Splintered Shard, ie they're not Splinters but splinters.

To see whether my theory has any value, let’s analyze what we know about AonDor and Surgebinding.

AonDor

To use AonDor, an Elantrian (made so by the Shaod) needs to draw a symbol, called an Aon in the air. What is strange, is that without the amplification of the city of Elantris, Aons produce such a small effect, that it doesn't really help in anything.

I propose that this is because Devotion has been Splintered. Before, the Shards were still complete and Aons worked much better, actually producing a real effect without the help of Elantris.

When Odium killed Aona and Skai, people figured out a way to make Aons work like before. And that way was Elantris.

If anybody knows something about the chronology relating to the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion and the construction, please help me out.

Back to my image of an ocean of energy for an intact Shard and tiny puddles for a Splintered one. The intact Shard has a mind, the puddles lack a significant cognitive aspect. Instead of floating around the spiritual realm as one being, the tiny puddles of energy float around but aimlessly. Following their intent, they are attracted to whatever Shard they originally come from.

So, how do Elantrians use the tiny puddles? I propose that the Shaod is actually that. Remnants of the Shard Devotion seeking devoted people to strike them. Which makes the person an Elantrian.The glowing of Elantrians is a sign to me that they have a big amount of pure spiritual energy added to themselves.

By drawing an Aon, Elantrians release part of the added energy. Remember when Raoden was attacked by the Dor? That was because he continued being devoted to something even after he was transformed into an Elantrian. So he continued to accumulate spiritual energy, which led to the attacks. When finally making his Aon work, there was so much energy inside him, the Aon produced an effect it would have produced with an intact Shard.

Part of my theory is that before Devotion was Splintered by Odium, Elantrians looked like normal people, only with the ability to draw powerful Aons and make them work, because whenever an Aon was drawn, the Elantrian drew the energy from an external source (Devotion).

Surgebinding

In contrast to AonDor, we actually have some small information about Surgebinding pre-Splintering. Brandon has confirmed that Honor still lived when the Heralds left, so the KR-scene we see in one of Dalinar's vision features some Surgebinders who were able to Surgebind before Honor was Splintered.

We've already discussed on several occasions how the KR seemed to be more powerful and to be able to do things the modern Surgebinders weren't able to do.

I theorize that this is at least partly because Honor was Splintered in-between.

Surgebinding requires someone to use Stormlight, to capture it in gemstones and keep it until one can use it. To me this doesn't really fit the description of an end-positive manifestation of Investiture. They draw in spiritual energy from an external source. Of course Stormlight is an external source, but I understand the external source more like an unlimited one like an intact Shard.

The KR did not seem to have extra-Stormlight with them, but the way they used their abilities, compared with what we've seen from Kaladin, their Stormlight would have been used up pretty fast, with all that jumping around. But instead of being used up, the KR continued to glow themselves, their Plate and Blade glowed as well.

I propose that before the Splintering, the KR also needed to bond a spren, but the spren provided the connection to an intact Shard, giving Surgebinders the ability to draw directly on Honor without having to rely on Stormlight stored in gems.

Without Honor intact to draw directly on him, Surgebinders need to draw on tiny puddles of spiritual energy of Honor: Stormlight.

I'll probably need to revise this, but I'll post it anyway cause it's so much fun to discuss baseless speculation like this.

This fits with an idea that I have been playing around with. Fabrials need power, and Shardplate uses stormlight. Shardblades do not need stormlight and make you a lighteyes. I think that Shardplate and blades used to require a spren to use, linking them with Honor. Now, Odium powers Shardblades making them less honorable (and possibly linking him to lighteyes. Hence the "Thrill") and Shardplate needs stormlight. Also fitting in with this idea is the glow of the shards: the spren powering it changes the colors.

Edited by Josiah Bills
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This fits with an idea that I have been playing around with. Fabrials need power, and Shardplate uses stormlight. Shardblades do not need stormlight and make you a lighteyes. I think that Shardplate and blades used to require a spren to use, linking them with Honor. Now, Odium powers Shardblades making them less honorable (and possibly linking him to lighteyes. Hence the "Thrill") and Shardplate needs stormlight. Also fitting in with this idea is the glow of the shards: the spren powering it changes the colors.

Well I'm glad someone at least is giving my idea some thought. I'm just convinced that Brandon Sanderson wouldn't create a magic system, that is powered by a Shard that would work in the the exact same way, when the Shard is Splintered. Might be some people take this for granted though.

I think it might helpt your idea, Josiah Bills, when I tell you that Shardblades actually bond with their Bearer. There is word of Brandon for it, I can find it, when I have more time. I assume, as you do, that before Honor's Splintering, Shardplate was powered directly by Honor, everything else would probably consume the Stormlight too fast.

About Plate and Blade requiring a spren to use. I'd rather say that those were somehow included in the bond of spren with Knight Radiant, installing a connection between Plate and Honor to power the Plate directly.

Random ideas I'd have to bring together to form a real one...

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  • 1 month later...

I like this line of reasoning, and it ties in with my belief that the KR did not use gems to power their Plate: if they did, the armour should not have lost it's glow in the Recreance scene in Feverstone Keep. They can apparently remove and instantly regrow parts of their armour at will, as in the scene with the midnight essence. This takes days with a continual supply of gems for modern Plate wearers. And with the Windrunner in that same scene, the glyphs on his armour start to glow more brightly when he jumps off into the night sky, using huge amounts of stormlight. It makes more sense to me that the KR themselves are channelling power from somewhere else into their equipment, and that no gem large enough to hold that power would fit into a suit.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I like this line of reasoning, and it ties in with my belief that the KR did not use gems to power their Plate: if they did, the armour should not have lost it's glow in the Recreance scene in Feverstone Keep. They can apparently remove and instantly regrow parts of their armour at will, as in the scene with the midnight essence. This takes days with a continual supply of gems for modern Plate wearers. And with the Windrunner in that same scene, the glyphs on his armour start to glow more brightly when he jumps off into the night sky, using huge amounts of stormlight. It makes more sense to me that the KR themselves are channelling power from somewhere else into their equipment, and that no gem large enough to hold that power would fit into a suit.

The removal and summoning of parts of Shardplate seems similar to the summoning of Shardblades to me. In my belief they're also stored in the spiritual realm. It probably works in some way like when someone wills a Shardblade to stay, instead of disappearing, when dropped. Since the KR abandoned the Plate, nobody thought of willing the Plate away in the right way. So they had to take it off. That just makes sense. Because you have to prepare to wear Plate, you need help. KR probably didn't have time for that process, so they summoned it.

And I agree with you, that the use the Windrunners made of their Plate would draw Stormlight much too quickly for it to be powered by gems.

Another similarity of Plate and Blade. Both 'bond' with their Bearer. For Shardblades we have a quote from the Forum's Q&A. And for Plate we know that one can regrow a set of Plate. If the Parshendi would have tried to grow a set out of Dalinar's gauntlet, it wouldn't have worked, because the Plate was bonded to Dalinar. I don't recall whether there is a quote that explicitly says that Plate is bonded to its Bearer.

Also I'll need to edit the OP to include Forgery.

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Another similarity of Plate and Blade. Both 'bond' with their Bearer. For Shardblades we have a quote from the Forum's Q&A. And for Plate we know that one can regrow a set of Plate. If the Parshendi would have tried to grow a set out of Dalinar's gauntlet, it wouldn't have worked, because the Plate was bonded to Dalinar. I don't recall whether there is a quote that explicitly says that Plate is bonded to its Bearer.

Also I'll need to edit the OP to include Forgery.

He flexed his left hand as he rode; it was now encased by a blue-painted Shardplate gauntlet borrowed from Adolin. It would take days to regrow Dalinar’s own gauntlet. Longer, if the Parshendi tried to grow a full suit from the one he had left. They would fail, so long as Dalinar’s armorers fed Stormlight to his suit.

It is bonded to stormlight, not to Dalinar.

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I disagree about that. I'll even say: No, it doesn't.

Stormlight is spiritual energy, the power of a Shard. Shardplate is powered by it, being an Invested object. Every invested object needs spiritual energy in order to function. Shardplate needs Stormlight but it is not bonded to it.

The bonds we are talking about are "Honor"-bonds. They play a particular role on Roshar as Honor's intent seems to be to bind things.

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I disagree about that. I'll even say: No, it doesn't.

Stormlight is spiritual energy, the power of a Shard. Shardplate is powered by it, being an Invested object. Every invested object needs spiritual energy in order to function. Shardplate needs Stormlight but it is not bonded to it.

The bonds we are talking about are "Honor"-bonds. They play a particular role on Roshar as Honor's intent seems to be to bind things.

As the quote says, if Dalinar did not feed his plate Stormlight the Parshendi could steal it by feeding it stormlight.

So it sounds like the plate is more loyal to stormlight than it is to people. It is 'bound' like a mercenary to whoever can front the gems.

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As the quote says, if Dalinar did not feed his plate Stormlight the Parshendi could steal it by feeding it stormlight.

So it sounds like the plate is more loyal to stormlight than it is to people. It is 'bound' like a mercenary to whoever can front the gems.

Then why, if both feed an equal amount of Stormlight to it, Dalinar gets the upper-hand? If Shardplate were bound to Stormlight, as you say, that would not happen.

Stormlight is a requirement for the invested object to function. That has nothing to do with the (Honor-caused) bonds we're talking about.

I don't think Plate is bound to anything, at least presently. Radiants might bond to their Plate, but right now no one has done that.

Shardwielding?

I still say that Shardplate forms some sort of bond with its Bearer. Might be me, but I think it says at some point, that Shardplate adapts to the size of its Bearer. How else could you pass a set of Shardplate from a very big guy to a small guy?

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I hope nobody feels insulted, but

It is bonded to stormlight, not to Dalinar.

here, I disagree.

As the quote says, if Dalinar did not feed his plate Stormlight the Parshendi could steal it by feeding it stormlight.

So it sounds like the plate is more loyal to Stormlight than it is to people. It is 'bound' like a mercenary to whoever can front the gems.

Here, too. The quote doesn't say, that "the Parshendi could steal it by feeding it stormlight." One may read this quote this way, but it doesn't explicitly state this.

Also I don't see any kind of "bond" of Shardplate/Blade with Stormlight rather then having them a "need" for Stormlight (it seems to be a kind of fuel/food for them).

Anyway, I'm still convinced that there is a bond between a Shardbearer and his Shardplate respectively his Shardblade.

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Then why, if both feed an equal amount of Stormlight to it, Dalinar gets the upper-hand? If Shardplate were bound to Stormlight, as you say, that would not happen.

Stormlight is a requirement for the invested object to function. That has nothing to do with the (Honor-caused) bonds we're talking about.

Since the armor takes several days to heal it is implied there is a limit to how much stormlight it can use at any one time, like an organic thing growing. Perhaps as Dalinar has more of the suit he can feed it more stormlight.

It's possible there is a bond, but we have no evidence that there is a bond, and it doesn't seem to be a very strong one. I am aware of the definition of a Nahal bond but whatever the shardplates are isn't much like an Honor bond. This may be because the shardplate has been corrupted by Odium, as shardblades may be given Syl's reaction to it at the end of the book.

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Back to the original theory:

The stormlight being used to power Surgebinding and Shardplates in lieu of a direct bond to Honor makes a lot of sense. By inference, that would say that Honor wasn't Splintered until the Recreance. I don't remember where this line of thought wound up, but I recall some discussions about how there weren't any spren in Dalinar's vision. If spren are Splinters of Honor, this fits very well Honor being whole until after the Recreance.

I'd even go so far as to take your theory one step further, Telcontar, and say that not only did they draw energy directly from Honor, but they also bonded directly to him instead of to spren. I'm a little shaky on my Realmatic Theory, but is it possible that spren like honorspren are cognitive splinters that a person forms a bond to through their actions, intents, and oaths to allow them to Surgebind, and stormlight is the remains of the spiritual energy of Honor? (I'm putting energy in the Spiritual Realm because I think that's how they talked about it in The Emperor's Soul, although I may be misremembering.) A Nahel Bond would have provided both the Cognitive and Spiritual bonds to Honor that allowed unlimited Surgebinding, while a modern-day Surgebinder needs to have a bond with a spren to gain the abilities and a stockpile of Stormlight to power them.

Going back to Elantris; I think it's more of their counterpart to spren, the way they connect with their Shard and gain magic powers, that has splintered, not necessarily the energy source. The AonDor would be the spiritual energy, and that doesn't exist in bubbles. Whatever happened would make it more difficult to gain access to; perhaps those taken by the Shaod weren't random, but were chosen like the Returned in Warbreaker. Since I don't know exactly how or why people get taken, I'm hesitant to speculate more. (We don't know that, right? It's been a while since I've read Elantris.)

What if the energy of Honor in tSA isn't shattered either? What if it's the source of the Highstorms, which are themselves furious and return constantly? That would be the resting place of Honor's energy, but Surgebinders can't access it directly. Portions of the energy go out with the highstorms, get trapped in gems, and are then harnessed by Surgebinders?

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Back to the original theory:

The stormlight being used to power Surgebinding and Shardplates in lieu of a direct bond to Honor makes a lot of sense. By inference, that would say that Honor wasn't Splintered until the Recreance. I don't remember where this line of thought wound up, but I recall some discussions about how there weren't any spren in Dalinar's vision. If spren are Splinters of Honor, this fits very well Honor being whole until after the Recreance.

We have confirmation from BS that Honor "was still around" when the KR left (I believe). Also Honor seemed to record the visions before he was Splintered, so if he could record the Recreance, he would have indeed been around, yes.

I invite you to use Splinter (with the capital) only to design real Splinters (like the Divine Breath). Spren would be the results of the splintering, thus be splinters.

I believe that the definition of a Splinter would include a voluntary creation of the entity by a Shard. Splinters (splinters) would be the result of the splintering, which would not have been a voluntary act of that same Shard.

I'd even go so far as to take your theory one step further, Telcontar, and say that not only did they draw energy directly from Honor, but they also bonded directly to him instead of to spren. I'm a little shaky on my Realmatic Theory, but is it possible that spren like honorspren are cognitive splinters that a person forms a bond to through their actions, intents, and oaths to allow them to Surgebind, and stormlight is the remains of the spiritual energy of Honor? (I'm putting energy in the Spiritual Realm because I think that's how they talked about it in The Emperor's Soul, although I may be misremembering.) A Nahel Bond would have provided both the Cognitive and Spiritual bonds to Honor that allowed unlimited Surgebinding, while a modern-day Surgebinder needs to have a bond with a spren to gain the abilities and a stockpile of Stormlight to power them.

Well, I believe that there are indeed spren that are Splinters (voluntary ones). Those include honorspren like Syl. As those would have been created by Honor for that purpose, one could say, that in that way yes, KRs bonded with Honor.

As to Stormlight being spiritual energy, that has not been confirmed, but it's more or less a general consensus in these forums.

Going back to Elantris; I think it's more of their counterpart to spren, the way they connect with their Shard and gain magic powers, that has splintered, not necessarily the energy source. The AonDor would be the spiritual energy, and that doesn't exist in bubbles. Whatever happened would make it more difficult to gain access to; perhaps those taken by the Shaod weren't random, but were chosen like the Returned in Warbreaker. Since I don't know exactly how or why people get taken, I'm hesitant to speculate more. (We don't know that, right? It's been a while since I've read Elantris.)

As to that, I'm actually working on a revision of the OP, which includes some large chanes to the AonDor part. But no, we don't know how the people taken by the Shaod are chose, there is a strong theory, that the Shaod chooses people that are especially devoted to something, as AonDor implies a connection with Aona who was Devotion's Shardholder.

What if the energy of Honor in tSA isn't shattered either? What if it's the source of the Highstorms, which are themselves furious and return constantly? That would be the resting place of Honor's energy, but Surgebinders can't access it directly. Portions of the energy go out with the highstorms, get trapped in gems, and are then harnessed by Surgebinders?

You're right of course. We can only assume what happens with the spiritual energy of a Shard when splintered. The source of highstorms as the place of Honor's Shardpool might be a good guess.

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Pagerunner, on 14 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Back to the original theory:

The stormlight being used to power Surgebinding and Shardplates in lieu of a direct bond to Honor makes a lot of sense. By inference, that would say that Honor wasn't Splintered until the Recreance. I don't remember where this line of thought wound up, but I recall some discussions about how there weren't any spren in Dalinar's vision. If spren are Splinters of Honor, this fits very well Honor being whole until after the Recreance.

While we never seen any spren, Nohadon talks about regular spren as well as Honorspren.

I tend to think the screaming Dalinar hears at Feverstone Keep are spren as well, but that's just my suspicion.

We have confirmation from BS that Honor "was still around" when the KR left (I believe).

Close. BS's quote was, 'Honor was still around when the Heralds did their thing.' Huge difference in time frame and possibilites.

Also Honor seemed to record the visions before he was Splintered, so if he could record the Recreance, he would have indeed been around, yes.

He almost certainly left the vision journal before he was killed, which is why many people believe he was around during the Recreance. Personally I have strong suspicion he was gone by that time, but a lot of people think he was still around then. (We just don't have BS quote to back it up like we do with the Heralds.)

I invite you to use Splinter (with the capital) only to design real Splinters (like the Divine Breath). Spren would be the results of the splintering, thus be splinters.

I believe that the definition of a Splinter would include a voluntary creation of the entity by a Shard. Splinters (splinters) would be the result of the splintering, which would not have been a voluntary act of that same Shard.

Wow...you're kind of inferring a lot of stuff there. We actually know very little of Splinters. And any time a Shard of Adonalsium is Splintered, it's the capital kind of Splintered. Check out Hoid's letter. If spren are Splinters, they're almost certainly the capital kind.

Voluntary acts have nothing to do with the definition of a Splinter as far as we know. We just know that Endowment has a cycle of Splinters rotating around on Nalthis. Personally I think Endowment is dead and Splintered...but that's just me inferring things. ;)

The definition for a Splinter that we have (and I'm heavily paraphrasing, don't feel like looking it up): 'a piece or fragment of a Shard of Adonalsium's power that has never been human.' i.e Divine Breath

It's kind of the opposite of a Sliver: A human that held a piece/part of a Shard of Adonalsium's power, but doesn't any longer. i.e. Lord Ruler, Kelsier, Vin (before ascending to Preservation's place)

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Close. BS's quote was, 'Honor was still around when the Heralds did their thing.' Huge difference in time frame and possibilites.

Thanks, that was probably the quote I referred to.

Wow...you're kind of inferring a lot of stuff there. We actually know very little of Splinters. And any time a Shard of Adonalsium is Splintered, it's the capital kind of Splintered. Check out Hoid's letter. If spren are Splinters, they're almost certainly the capital kind.

Voluntary acts have nothing to do with the definition of a Splinter as far as we know. We just know that Endowment has a cycle of Splinters rotating around on Nalthis. Personally I think Endowment is dead and Splintered...but that's just me inferring things. ;)/>

The definition for a Splinter that we have (and I'm heavily paraphrasing, don't feel like looking it up): 'a piece or fragment of a Shard of Adonalsium's power that has never been human.' i.e Divine Breath

It's kind of the opposite of a Sliver: A human that held a piece/part of a Shard of Adonalsium's power, but doesn't any longer. i.e. Lord Ruler, Kelsier, Vin (before ascending to Preservation's place)

Isn't inferring what we do most of the time here? ;-) What we know about Splinters, is that BS refuses to give us the precise definition. It is my believe of course, that there is a difference between Splinters and the pieces of a Shard that are left, when the Shard is splintered. Splinters seem to have a purpose on their own. And I beleive that that purpose is a result of the Shard (Shardholder) creating the Splinter. Thus being a voluntary act.

I believe those spren that had been around in Dalinar's vision to be actual Splinters btw. And the other spren, that cannot provide a connection to Honor (making someone a Surgebinder) to be splinters.

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