A theory about the Nightwatcher

[Eri]

What do we know about her?

First, her name. Nightwatcher. Someone that watches in the night or over the night. A person... or a celestial body, maybe?

Second, her gifts. Magic which doesn't seem very honorable, cultivative or odious. Just does not fit to any of them.

A curse with every boon. A boon with every curse. Doesn't that remind you about something? One Shard who actually lives (IIRC) very close to Roshar. The Silence Divine Shard. Who may have (for many reasons) been on Roshar some time ago.

My theory is that the being granting wishes is a Splinter of that Shard. And that the folk tales about the Nightwatcher are distorted legends about that Splinter, the Shard and the planet of Silence Divine (I recall it is in the same solar system, or am I mistaken?), seen as a star (and, I guess, somehow identified with the Nightwatcher in popular opinion — folk tales work like that, I think).

What do you think about it?

Edit: I'll edit this paragrapg into small text because it's a digression (sp?):

This would leave Cultivation's magic as completly unknown. Honor has Surgebinding; Odium has Voidbinding which may be the art of fabrials or may be not... but what about her? I think the Stone Shamans fit. They have apropriate beliefs, and seem powerful enough to be magic users (they claim to be able to retieve Szeth's Blade, and their whole country has warriors treated as slaves. And they don't ever rebel against it. Why?).

Less confusing now?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Eri

[Odium's_Shard]

One up for audacity. I like it. Need more proof and quotes however, before I'd be willing to espouse anything. Plus, is this about Cultivation's magic or the Nightwatcher? Partially confusing.

[Wisdom]

I may be a little confused but I thought Splinters were only formed when a Shard is Shattered, which presumably requires another Shard to do. If the Shard on the Silence Divine was Shattered there then how did the Splinter get to Roshar? If the Shard for some reason was shattered on Roshar then where are all the other Splinters? I like the theory though, you have to think outside the box when dealing with Brandon Sanderson .

[Odium's_Shard]

Preservation wasn't Shattered to make a part of himself deviate, ie Well of Ascension and the mists and lerasium and the bits of him in well everyone on Scadrial.. So it could be a 'construct' of a Shard.

[Windrunner]

Warbreaker Spoilers

The Divine Breath of the Returned is a splinter as well, and we know Endowment from that world isn't Splintered, because s/he speaks with Lightsong. It is actually intentional on Endowments part

This could possibly be a Splinter of the third Shard that has been on Roshar, since I believe in the theory that Odium actually hasn't arrived on Roshar yet, and so he doesn't count. (Sorry if I'm reiterating, I just wasn't sure if you'd heard that theory yet) If this is the Shard had to abandon Roshar I can imagine it leaving a piece of itself behind in guilt, to help/hurt people. You're right in the fact that it sounds a lot like what we know of the Silence Divine magic system.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Windrunner

[fiveAM]

Warbreaker Spoilers

The Divine Breath of the Returned is a splinter as well, and we know Endowment from that world isn't Splintered, because s/he speaks with Lightsong. It is actually intentional on Endowments part

This could possibly be a Splinter of the third Shard that has been on Roshar, since I believe in the theory that Odium actually hasn't arrived on Roshar yet, and so he doesn't count. (Sorry if I'm reiterating, I just wasn't sure if you'd heard that theory yet) If this is the Shard had to abandon Roshar I can imagine it leaving a piece of itself behind in guilt, to help/hurt people. You're right in the fact that it sounds a lot like what we know of the Silence Divine magic system.

Yeah I think it's more likely the power of the 3rd Shard, which I think has been Splintered so idea isn't completely different. Brandon's revelation of that changed like half the theories on magic and magic-related things on Roshar for me.

[Odium's_Shard]

I'm not convinced that Odium hasn't already arrived. After all, the people on Roshar have already experienced Voidbinding, and the Desolations still occurred, along with the Midnight Essence, etc. And that would mean that 4 Shards have at any one time been on Roshar. Unless this 3rd Shard came, made the Nightwatcher, and then left before Odium came and then left. I can't remember if Brandon's quote was 'have been at any one time on Roshar' or 'have ever been on Roshar'. If it was the latter, then the 3rd Shard couldn't have happened.

[Eri]

Well, even if the Shard wasn't ever on Roshar, a planet in same system isn't probably too far for a Splinter to travel.

[Odium's_Shard]

World-hopping could explain everything away, ie why Hoid is awesome, how Kaladin will get from A to B to save Roshar, how Dalinar could follow him, etc., etc. But I don't think that Brandon would resort to something like a Deus Ex Machina when dealing with a fundamental like the Nightwatcher. Maybe its not a Deus Ex Machina, but, whatever the answer is, it would have to make sense and agree with what we've already seen as part of the Cosmere.

[Windrunner]

I don't think it's too deus ex machina for it to be a Splinter. Brandon says that their are some cosmere worlds that only have a sliver on the planet and nothing else. Also the fact that it's called the Old Magic implies, to me at least, that the magic was once there but now is almost gone.

I'm not convinced that Odium hasn't already arrived. After all, the people on Roshar have already experienced Voidbinding, and the Desolations still occurred, along with the Midnight Essence, etc. And that would mean that 4 Shards have at any one time been on Roshar. Unless this 3rd Shard came, made the Nightwatcher, and then left before Odium came and then left. I can't remember if Brandon's quote was 'have been at any one time on Roshar' or 'have ever been on Roshar'. If it was the latter, then the 3rd Shard couldn't have happened.

If Odium created the Voidbringers, then a piece of himself is inside them, presumably allowing them to use his magic system, Voidbinding, wherever they are, although this isn't for certain. But I think even AonDor could be used anywhere in the cosmere, just not with any level of power or usefulness, if they are too far away. I see the Voidbringers as kind of Odium's advanced shock troops. He shoots them to a planet, and then follows himself once the world has been softened up for him. (Which is how I think all the original users of AonDor, and Dominion's magic died) The reason he hasn't come until now is that the people of Roshar have managed to defeat his attacks. So he's given them a pause, during which to grow arrogant and weak. Now he's creating the final Desolation, and coming himself. If you think about what the face in the storm said to Kaladin, it was "Odium comes" not Odium is here.

[Odium's_Shard]

I was arguing that the Third Shard theory isn't necessarily true, not that Rayse is on Roshar. I agree with the people who say he isn't, and your quote backs us up. But perhaps you're right about the 'shock troopers'. That would explain why they kept coming back, and how they weren't there in between, ie they retreated to Odium's Shardworld, or they died, and he sent another wave.

Perhaps this is why he gave them the Shardblades. They appear to have amazing power, and can slice through rock and souls alike, destroying any so-called Desolation that streaks its path. But when the True Desolation comes, and Odium appears in earnest, the Shardblades 'mysteriously' fail in Odium's wake. And without a back-up plan other than 'Use the other Shardblades in Alethkar', all of humanity is destroyed.

And so the Honourblades were given by Honour so that they would stand strong during the True Desolation, in return for a slice of Odium's power. However, Odium then saw that the Honourblades would be a threat without the Heralds to control them (ie be in his hands until the Desolation), and so Shattered Honour in an attempt to negate the Honourblades. But it didn't work. However the Blades are lost, which works for Odium, and so he prepares to mount a Desolation like no other!

'Return to men the Shards they once bore': the Honourblades. Not the cheap, betraying Shardblades. However this would suggest the entire Knights Radiant would have been screwed if they were their during the True Desolation.

And this would explain why Syl; an honourspren did not like the Blades, but had no issue with the Plate. Simple?

EDIT: Too simple.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Odium's_Shard

[Eri]

World-hopping could explain everything away, ie why Hoid is awesome, how Kaladin will get from A to B to save Roshar, how Dalinar could follow him, etc., etc. But I don't think that Brandon would resort to something like a Deus Ex Machina when dealing with a fundamental like the Nightwatcher.

I agree, but going to a planet in same system (like Earth and Mars) is much less than typical worldhopping (which is like going form Earth to Alpha Centauri or something), therefore it would be less Deus Ex Machina, IMO. And Roshar is in one system with the planet of Silence Divine. Unless I got different planets mixed up and my theory has no sense.

Edit: I've just realized that all Nightwatcher's curses we've seen (inverted seeing; losing memory about a person; random inteligence) change the mind (or possibly the body also) of a person involved. No curses like “your friends dislike you” or “your money turns to ash”. It fits very well in the “magic for a disability” theme, I think.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Eri

[Cheese Ninja]

I agree, but going to a planet in same system (like Earth and Mars) is much less than typical worldhopping (which is like going form Earth to Alpha Centauri or something), therefore it would be less Deus Ex Machina, IMO. And Roshar is in one system with the planet of Silence Divine. Unless I got different planets mixed up and my theory has no sense.

Edit: I've just realized that all Nightwatcher's curses we've seen (inverted seeing; losing memory about a person; random inteligence) change the mind (or possibly the body also) of a person involved. No curses like “your friends dislike you” or “your money turns to ash”. It fits very well in the “magic for a disability” theme, I think.

Yeah, I noticed that too, all of Nightwatcher's curses mess with neurons, although mostly in ways that aren't possible by normal human means. Mostly by inhibiting specific functions (feeling in hands, flipping of images on retina)or patterns of usage (intelligence, recall of an individual).

I'd like to see more examples for boons besides "a heap of good cloth", to see if there's a pattern there as well.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Cheese Ninja

[name_here]

Perhaps this is why he gave them the Shardblades. They appear to have amazing power, and can slice through rock and souls alike, destroying any so-called Desolation that streaks its path. But when the True Desolation comes, and Odium appears in earnest, the Shardblades 'mysteriously' fail in Odium's wake. And without a back-up plan other than 'Use the other Shardblades in Alethkar', all of humanity is destroyed.

And so the Honourblades were given by Honour so that they would stand strong during the True Desolation, in return for a slice of Odium's power.

Um, Honor has the demonstrated ability to send visions to Knights from beyond the grave. If he knew the Shardblades were going to get shut off, couldn't he simply have said so?

Also, all the Windrunners would have been bonded to honorspren back when they had their Blades and Plate. So I assume something has changed since the Recreance.

[fiveAM]

It seems likely the Oathpact kept Honor from interfering or helping the Heralds in their fight and even if Odium were to not completely follow it (sort of like in WoT) Honor is also about upholding honor and oaths so even when he saw it happen, he couldn't say it cause that would be "helping" the Heralds.

[Odium's_Shard]

Um, Honor has the demonstrated ability to send visions to Knights from beyond the grave. If he knew the Shardblades were going to get shut off, couldn't he simply have said so?

Also, all the Windrunners would have been bonded to honorspren back when they had their Blades and Plate. So I assume something has changed since the Recreance.

That.

Was a good point.

[Aradel]

Um, Honor has the demonstrated ability to send visions to Knights from beyond the grave. If he knew the Shardblades were going to get shut off, couldn't he simply have said so?

Also, all the Windrunners would have been bonded to honorspren back when they had their Blades and Plate. So I assume something has changed since the Recreance.

I always thought that Syl's problem wasn't with the blade, but with Dalinar having the blade. She had no problem with Andolin, and when Dalinar gave up his blade she said "He's better without it." (Paraphrase)

Do we know for certain that all ten orders of the Knights Radiant used shardblades? Or could it be that Dalinar isn't a knight, but something else?

Edit: New thought, what if certian Blades belong to certain orders of the KR and Dalinar had simply been carrying the wrong kind of blade?

Also, if the above is true, could Szeth be pulling his Windrunner abilities from his Blade? Or Shallan her soulcasting?

Edited January 14, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[Cheese Ninja]

After reading a bit of this thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/wrhb4/i_once_heard_that_if_you_wore_glasses_that_turned/

...I feel like I under-thought the whole "seeing upside down" thing. It seems that if you wore glasses that inverted your field of vision, you'd adjust after a few days. You would no longer think of what you're seeing as "being upside down". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_adaptation

Four isn't much of a sample size, but I'm pretty sure at this point that the Nightwatcher's curses affect neurons.

[Riddlesinthedark]

After reading a bit of this thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/wrhb4/i_once_heard_that_if_you_wore_glasses_that_turned/

...I feel like I under-thought the whole "seeing upside down" thing. It seems that if you wore glasses that inverted your field of vision, you'd adjust after a few days. You would no longer think of what you're seeing as "being upside down". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_adaptation

Four isn't much of a sample size, but I'm pretty sure at this point that the Nightwatcher's curses affect neurons.

Remembering that, physiologically speaking, we always see the world upside down. And with our brains are just switching it around to make sense of "gravity=down". Since our brains are plastic, growing new neurons, and to some extent dynamic, shifting to new paradigms would occur but isn't.

That paragraph is a little jumbled, but there would have to something (in my opinion and understanding) constantly and permanently altering new neurons as they form. I almost wonder if it is similar to Mat Cauthon felt about the 'Finns, that they were in his head, spying on events. That might make the Nightwatcher a much more powerful player in the future.

[Morsk]

Oh, this is interesting. I had the same idea in May but didn't know anyone else had come up with it too; this is from way back in January! It's nice to see more people thinking about it.

I also like the idea that the Nightwatcher's curses are always cognitive. A side-effect is that it explains how so many people can seek the Old Magic in secret, and keep the shame to themselves. It's possible though that the cause and effect are reversed; the Nightwatcher favors subtle curses because she knows she'll get a bad reputation, and fewer visits, the more blatant the curses are.

[Thought]

For the OP, if the Nightwatcher is a splinter, or even a full shard, any thoughts as to what it might be? I'm tempted to go with Balance, since it evens out its blessings with curses, and it would help explain how Odium could hope to attack a world with 3 shards and get away with it (Balance would presumably not be able to directly combat him like Honor or Cultivation might be able to). However, that smacks of Harmony, and also Sanderson has probably played too many RPGs to want to bother with how uninteresting neutrality can be. Perhaps Justice, then (I think someone else suggested this a while ago). Still has that sense of balance, still might not oppose Odium until it has broken a "law," etc.

Also, all the Windrunners would have been bonded to honorspren back when they had their Blades and Plate. So I assume something has changed since the Recreance.

I'm reminded of the Kandra. A people of Preservation, but powered by Ruin. Anywho, we know that at least one thing changed: the plate and shards stopped glowing when the Windrunners gave them up. If there was a change, then we may have already seen one of the other kinds of magic systems in the world: the glyphs that floated around the armor in one of Dalinar's visions. Near-Aonic magic might be used to temper the odius nature of the things.