The Alloy of Law and guns (Spoilers)

[shadmere]

First off, I want to say that I really enjoyed the book. Don't take this thread as me complaining about it being bad or anything. I loved it.

But was anyone else kind of confused at how guns worked in the book?

How fast did these guns shoot their bullets? (I know each gun will be different, but I'm asking in general.) It seemed like they must be slower than sound, because on multiple occasions characters had the opportunity to react after hearing the sound of the shot. Wayne, in particular, would need this kind of thing to be able to throw up a speed bubble, see where the bullets are, and move out of their way. If he couldn't hear the shot before the bullets reached him, that wouldn't work at all!

So ok. I can accept most of the guns shooting subsonic. It would make some sense with the relative time period, too. (Though you would think that there would be significant motivation to make guns that could fire supersonic rounds. It'd be a great idea for more "Hazekiller" bullets.

But even with subsonic ammunition, a lot of the actions in the book seem kind of impossible. I thought it was very well done in the prologue. Wax knew that by the time he heard the shot, any reaction was pointless. He also noted a very brief flicker of a blue line leading to a bullet as it passed by. I liked that. I could see his Allomancy letting him possibly notice a bullet going by, but it would be a "blink and you miss it" type of thing.

Then during the rest of the book, that seemed to change a little. Wayne is able to notice gunshots quickly enough to throw up a bubble. Wax can fire a bullet then push on it Allomantically. Even with subsonic ammo, it should be all but impossible (maybe entirely impossible) to do that. Maybe he was already pushing in the direction he knew the bullet would be, anticipating his own shot? I could see that, maybe.

But at one point, someone fires a bullet an a Coinshot (I forget who, and my book isn't with me). The Coinshot reacts by raising his hand in the direction of the shooter, and the bullet stops.

That sequence of events just doesn't make any sense. If he was shot at, there's no way he could possibly have time to raise his hand before the bullet was stopped. Could he?

Maybe I'm not thinking about this in the right way. If I've making a mistake somewhere, please point it out. I love the book, I just wonder about this kind of thing.

Even if these are mistakes, they're mistakes that literally every single book I've ever read involving guns has made. If they're not mistakes, and I'm not thinking about something correctly, then let me know.

Also: Glad to join the new forums! (Last time I posted, it was at TWG.)

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Alloy of Law does make some nods to the speed of bullets. For example, in the prologue, Wax thinks about how once he hears a shot, it's too late to dodge it.

That said, sometimes people do seem to be reacting impossibly fast. Wayne, at least, has his shtick of being a really erratic target, so he can watch for when people are taking aim at him (or, in one case, at Wax), and then throwing up his bubble, without needing to wait for shots actually being fired. Coinshots* are a little less excusable - it's established that they can only Push bullets if they know the shot is coming, but that still requires almost inhumanly fast reflexes, and people like Push are willing to bet they can do it many times in succession. So, that probably comes down to "action movie logic".

Pushing on bullets you've fired doesn't seem like a contradiction to me, though. After all, there's no reason why Wax couldn't start pushing before the bullet clears the barrel, and if he Pushes at the same moment he pulls the trigger, the effects should still be the same as described.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

* How long will Scadrial still know them as "coinshots," now that there are so many small pieces of metal to Push, I wonder...

[Wispsy]

I think the whole if you have to target a specific line mentally before you can push on it, on would think it would be hard to push your own bullet or other peoples, however wax has his bubble always pushing everything a little so I guess it's pretty easy to select what u wanna push, singly or even just in general direction

[happyman]

I think the whole if you have to target a specific line mentally before you can push on it, on would think it would be hard to push your own bullet or other peoples, however wax has his bubble always pushing everything a little so I guess it's pretty easy to select what u wanna push, singly or even just in general direction

It actually states in the prologue that Wax's little bubble is somehow automatically to applied to everything except the metal he is carrying on his person. His ability to push away bullets comes from the fact that he is always pushing when he knows people are shooting at him. This doesn't mean you can't find an example of him reacting too quickly in the book. It might clarify some cases of those references, though.

[Pechvarry]

Wax' steel bubble really proves one thing: you can push against metal objects that are not yet there (i.e. where they WILL be). It also shows that you can exclude things while maintaining this predictive force. This pretty much explains the Pushing concerns of this thread.

You can push on your own bullets because you know where it's coming from and where it's going. You just need to max push on where that single thread will be as you pull the trigger (and exclude all other metal that happens to be there). Side note: you could really screw up your own trajectory doing this. Wax would need a lot of practice and would perhaps have to hunch to a specific angle before shooting to keep his center of gravity in line with the shot.

Push (the character) needs to be aware the bullets are coming. If you're facing down 6 gunman, you just start pushing towards them when they're about to fire. As the lines shoot out of their guns, they encounter a persistent pushing force which stops or repels them.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Note: I suspect that not all Steelpushers could do those tricks. Character!Push is noted as highly skilled, while Wax remarks on how instinctual his grasp of Allomancy is.

[Inkthinker]

Brandon tends to Hollywood his gunplay a bit. He's not immune to the Rule of Cool.

In the case of "reacting to the shot", it's reasonable to suggest that the shot they react to misses, even if it's aimed at them. It's harder to hit things (especially with guns that are 1910-era equivalent, and especially at any serious distance) than movies and video games might have you believe.

[name_here]

There's some indications that it is possible to do a directional steelpush without focusing on specific metal lines, mostly from when Mistborn do omnidirectional pushes to give them some space in a crowd. If it's impossible to sustain that at high power for long, deflections could consist of doing one in the direction of the shooter. This would fit with them requiring being aware of the shooter.