Post-Reod Functional Seons

[darniil]

My apologies for the three new threads. I had some questions pop up after finishing Elantris, and I thought it might be best to keep them in their own threads rather than lumping them together in a way that could make things complicated later (if the discussions became long).

Why did the Seons continue to work after the Reod? They had outdated aons in them, just like the ones that Raoden drew, (and just like the aons all around Elantris), but the Seons continued to function normally (unless the one they were bound to went through the Shaod, in which case they were made incomplete).

And is there any indication that post-"reconstruction" Seons have the Chasm Line in their aons?

[happyman]

My apologies for the three new threads. I had some questions pop up after finishing Elantris, and I thought it might be best to keep them in their own threads rather than lumping them together in a way that could make things complicated later (if the discussions became long).

Why did the Seons continue to work after the Reod? They had outdated aons in them, just like the ones that Raoden drew, (and just like the aons all around Elantris), but the Seons continued to function normally (unless the one they were bound to went through the Shaod, in which case they were made incomplete).

And is there any indication that post-"reconstruction" Seons have the Chasm Line in their aons?

This is a good question, and one which has no good answer yet. We don't know much about the Seons. Their origins are left deliberately vague. The fact that they don't have the chasm line was an important fact in one of Brandon's earlier drafts of Elantris (it was how Dilaf was finally defeated), but as Brandon himself noted, that ending was anti-climatic, especially compared to the one he actually went with. This leaves us without any clear explanation for where Seons come from or how they are sustained. The effect the Shaod has on a bound Seon is especially unclear.

So, a good question. There are no canonical answers yet. The fact that the Seons are almost certainly tied to Aona's shard after the splintering makes it even less clear.

[Catalyst21]

This is a good question, and one which has no good answer yet. We don't know much about the Seons. Their origins are left deliberately vague. The fact that they don't have the chasm line was an important fact in one of Brandon's earlier drafts of Elantris (it was how Dilaf was finally defeated), but as Brandon himself noted, that ending was anti-climatic, especially compared to the one he actually went with. This leaves us without any clear explanation for where Seons come from or how they are sustained. The effect the Shaod has on a bound Seon is especially unclear.

So, a good question. There are no canonical answers yet. The fact that the Seons are almost certainly tied to Aona's shard after the splintering makes it even less clear.

<Theory>

The Seons continued to work correctly until the person they were tied to became Elantrian. We believe the post-reod Elantris was a faulty spell, basically a twisted intent. if the Reod-Elantrian's had destroyed the city they would have completed their transition into Elantrians, with less power than the pre-reod-elantrians. the Aeons continued to function correctly because they are splinters of Aona, and as long as the Aon inside them was not faulty (it could be wrong (ie: ineffective), but not faulty. They stopped working correctly when the person the were bonded to became post-Reod-elantrian because the person they were bonded to was a conduit for the faulty-spell to affect them.

Pre-Reod spells could have 2 outcomes during the Reod, wrong, which means they did nothing, and faulty, which means they were a twisted spell, similar to the healing analogy referenced in elantris.

</theory>

Edited October 18, 2011 by Catalyst21

[darniil]

(Nitpick: Aona, not Skai. The Seons are tied to her, and the Skaze(?) are tied to Skai.)

Hopefully we'll get some more information when the next Elantris book comes out.

I wonder if perhaps the Seons are what Aona's Shard shattered into, considering how devoted they are to their masters. ... Hmm, no, that seems like too much of a stretch. They have aons within them for a reason. I guess there's a chance that Aona's Shard shattered into the aons themselves, (Brandon did say that shattered fragments could have their own versions of intents, and each aon symbolizes something, perhaps akin to how a Shard "symbolizes" an intent), but if there were ur-Elantrians (I like that term) before Odium's arrival, that would negate the possibility of Aona shattering into the aons.

[Catalyst21]

(Nitpick: Aona, not Skai. The Seons are tied to her, and the Skaze(?) are tied to Skai.)

Hopefully we'll get some more information when the next Elantris book comes out.

I wonder if perhaps the Seons are what Aona's Shard shattered into, considering how devoted they are to their masters. ... Hmm, no, that seems like too much of a stretch. They have aons within them for a reason. I guess there's a chance that Aona's Shard shattered into the aons themselves, (Brandon did say that shattered fragments could have their own versions of intents, and each aon symbolizes something, perhaps akin to how a Shard "symbolizes" an intent), but if there were ur-Elantrians (I like that term) before Odium's arrival, that would negate the possibility of Aona shattering into the aons.

Thanks for the correction, I'll rate you up if I can

it would not "negate the possibility of Aona...." in my opinion. The aons (as a system of magic) would already exist. The splinters of Aona would then find form in something already familiar to them.

[Zas678]

Catalyst21, I agree completely. Let me rephrase some of the things you have said.

The only two changes that could cause the return of the Seons is the Return of Elantris, and the Restoration of the Elantrians. I don't see how Seons would be affected by the Return of Elantris, since they weren't affected by the Fall of Elantris. No, they were only affected by the Fall of the Elantrians. So, they must be linked to that.

I believe that there are two sort of energies going on with Seons. I think their original energy came from the Splintering of Aona. However, I think that their Continuing Energy comes from the Humans they serve. In the book, it mentions how it seems like the Seons are always needing to serve, to have a master. I think this is partially do to the Intent of Aona, but also because their is a sort of Nahel Bond between a Master and the Seon.

*WoK spoilers! (But only slightly)

In WoK, Syl bonds with Kaladin, and while Kaladin gets some magical powers, Syl gets a stronger Cognitive Presence. I think that this is the Nahel Bond, and that this happens with Seons too.

Seons serve their masters, helping them, guiding them, serving them. They are bonded to their masters and to their intelligence. A pre-restoration Elantrian isn't able to be targeted by Aons; indeed, this is why their bodies didn't heal all the way. So, when a Master becomes Elantrian, his Seons goes crazy, because the Seon's Bond to the Cognitive Realm is shattered, living the Seon mindless and voiceless. However, when Elantris is restored, the Elantrians can be affected by Aons again, and so the Seons come back in force.

I suppose that leaves the question- what if their Master died? I suppose that tehy would bond with the first person they see, until they could find a new master.

That's my theory.

[Catalyst21]

Since this is related, wanted to link it in.

Europe Tour

June 2011

• Are Seons splinter of Aona?

• He said that that line of theorising is very close and that we are figuring it out.

• Is the Dor the same as the power of creation that powers Allomancy?

• He said that dor is similar to that which powers allomancy but not the 100% the same.

and also on "evil seons" and seon / skaze being "related" to Shards.

SIDE INFO WE DISCOVERED:

*Skaze are the evil seons, and are related to Skai. Seons are related to the AonDor and thus Aona.

[Catalyst21]

and a follow up, after Elantris is restored, the Seons still have not been "fixed" to the best of my knowledge.

[darniil]

and a follow up, after Elantris is restored, the Seons still have not been "fixed" to the best of my knowledge.

Yes, I remember Raoden saying that his Seon seemed less chatty, or otherwise different than it was before his change.

[Catalyst21]

From: http://www.brandonsanderson.com/library/48/Elantris-Alternate-Ending-Material

Seon Deaths

Okay, to set up the last deleted scene, I need to explain a mechanic of the worldbuilding which, eventually, I removed from the book.

Originally, I had planned for the Seons to have an extra power—the ability to release their Aon. Each Seon, you may recall, is lit by a glowing Aon at the center. That's the place the Seon gets his or her name.

Originally, I had the Seon able to use this Aon once, producing a magical effect, but at a terrible cost. The following section of deleted material talks about the mechanics. It comes from the scene where Raoden is explaining things he's found in one of the books inside of Elantris to Galladon. (Who used to be named Galerion, if you hadn't figured that out.) There is a lot of other material here as well, beyond the Seon/Aon explanation. I'll talk about that below.

and again from the same source:

The Seon death by releasing its Aon wasn't just mentioned here—it was a fairly large element of the world, for reasons I'll explain when I post the next deleted scene.

...

....

...

For you Seon lovers out there, never fear! I intend to get back to the Seon origins in the sequel to Elantris, when—and if—I ever get around to writing it. Know, however, that none of the above material is cannon. I was working ideas out on the page, and eventually removed them because I didn't quite like how they worked. So, some of these concepts may show up in the next book, but some may not.

[darniil]

Those quotes sound like a pretty solid "Wait and see" kind of thing. :-/ Ah, well.