Razrback16

Well-said.

Agreed Traveller - Kaladin + Jasnah could be quite interesting. I'd ship Kaladin with Jasnah above all presently based on Books 1-3. New information could come in Book 4 that might change my opinion but I'd be interested in reading that one.

@ Pathfinder No worries - even though we don't agree on some points, I still enjoyed reading your point of view on all of it, so thanks for sharing. I liked your note about the parshmen and bonding their spren - never know maybe that will be something discussed later in the books by Kaladin and Co.. I definitely sympathized with Kaladin on his point of view with regard to the parshmen after the beginning of OB where he spends time with them. Felt bad for the way they'd been treated.

Always good to read other people's opinions on the subjects, thanks for sharing your views. Topics like this are obviously a bunch of us just throwing observations and opinions out to speculate while none of us know what direction the author is actually going to go with it. I'm glad you shared that point on Amaram. I will have to go back and check it out just to run that scene through my mind again out of curiosity as I've only read it once. ---------- Edit - just tacking on to this post as I went back and re-read that section you referenced. I'm glad you brought that one up, too, that's such an enjoyable exchange to read. I can't wait to find out what Jasnah's history actually was with Amaram. I mean she just absolutely hates the dude despite him being cordial toward her initially in that situation and she notes further that it was her father who wanted them to be close (not her) and refused to be alone with him. Definitely interesting. It's quite a different flow and feeling, though, compared to the exchange between her and Kaladin, at least to me. Jasnah doesn't have a history with Kaladin beyond that Radiant meeting that we know of - she had asked Shallan "what she thought of the Windrunner" at an earlier point in OB, but not much conversation developed beyond that to indicate 'why' she asked. (maybe because she worries about the safety of her family as a primary concern I suspect). I definitely felt the meanings of those two situations were different based on a few things - circumstances, relationship histories, emotions, etc... I mean in the one situation she was basically ready to kill the guy when smiling (hah, sort of a "make my day" type of smile), only after Amaram was in the process of summoning his shardblade to apparently attack her with. In the other she's having a disagreement about war strategy with a man who had already saved Dalinar's life and Adolin's (multiple times) (these are men, especially Dalinar, who are incredibly dear to Jasnah - Kaladin is basically the opposite of Amaram, an "anti-Amaram" in essence and Jasnah knows that - where Amaram is counterfeit and deceitful in the way he attains his power and reputation, Kaladin is generally honest, and humble, while repeatedly putting his life on the line to help other people without an agenda for personal gain), and it's already been made clear throughout the series that protecting her family is the most important thing to Jasnah. She smiles at Kaladin after she'd insulted him and he insulted her back. It's noted about 15-20 pages before the Kaladin / Jasnah exchange that Dalinar thinks to himself how he thought it was unfair that so many people were always surprised to see emotion from Jasnah and that he had noticed she only smiles at people when it's most genuine. Now that's not to say that when she smiles at Kaladin, she's thinking about how she wants to rip his clothes off and get him to bed, only that it's probably different from the circumstances in the exchange with Amaram for the reasons listed above. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I think at this point in the story, Jasnah & Kaladin are probably a little annoyed by each other. She likely finds his viewpoints on the parshmen to be shortsighted righteousness that would get them all killed, just as he likely looks at her as a narrow-minded, emotionless ice queen who "doesn't understand" what he does. I like this pairing for a number of reasons. Primarily I think they can build off each other in a really positive way that would be fun to read about as it wouldn't be easy - they would go through a number of personal trials and tribulations that I think would be fun to read through - they would likely conflict frequently, but I think reading about them resolving those conflicts, particularly if it turned romantic, would be really enjoyable. But like I've said in other posts, I could be completely wrong in this and maybe they'll just hate each other's guts for the next 7 books, hah.

I could be completely wrong, but I have felt since concluding OB last summer that the Kaladin / Shallan stuff was mostly thrown in there to give Kaladin someone to sort of romantically focus on for a bit while the other pieces on the chess board were being maneuvered as some readers who like to have a romance arc in the books they read would be bored / turned off if they went (3) long novels without any romance stuff for the main character. I think we either haven't met Kaladin's primary romance target yet, or we have, and he simply hasn't had much interaction with her yet for whatever reason.

Ya, agreed on the chemistry given the limited interaction - to me I thought it was fairly clear during the meeting that the chemistry was there, underyling the subject matter being discussed by the two of them. I think right now Jasnah and Kaladin have a fundamental disagreement about how to proceed due to some ideological differences, making them probably have a slight dislike for each other right now on the surface, but also a mutual respect (they are probably both glad they are on the same side, Jasnah especially after Kaladin & his men brought Gavinor back given how clear it's been made that her family (and protecting them) is the most important thing in her life). They've had so little interaction so far; that's what's going to be very interesting moving forward is how they behave towards each other. Jasnah smiling at Kaladin during their little argument stood out to me as a good sign since she rarely smiles as-is. But Kaladin probably has an opinion of her that the term "ice queen" could probably convey accurately at this point in the story. I think Kaladin's opinion of Jasnah will change going into book 4 as she'll no doubt do some things that will surprise him in a positive way as with her being Queen now, they are likely going to spend a lot of time together in close-quarters moving forward. I'm also hoping Jasnah can help Kaladin with some of his issues where he cares so much to the point of it being a character fault - it actually causes him problems on a day to day basis and he really needs to learn how to accept that you can't save everybody, and nor is it your responsibility to save everybody all the time. He desperately needs some logic injected into his emotionally driven faults. Absolutely! +1 to your post.

Ya that's a good one too, I've heard that as well.

Agreed. This is commonly referred to as the "puppy love" phase. I've been through it plenty of times myself. Usually the first 3-6 months you go through this when you get into a new relationship where it's like you're living on a cloud. The other person is so perfect in your eyes that you just adore everything about them and they can do no wrong and all you want to do is be around that person, holding, hugging, or kissing them every second of every day, hah. Eventually reality starts to creep back in, but it does take a good chunk of time.

+1, OP. Ya it's good to always be friendly even if you disagree with something someone says and try not to be rude / confrontational. I think most folks here have done a fantastic job of that in my experience as well.

Thank you so much for posting this, OP.

I'd seen a theory on a different site where someone suggested some kind of violation by an ardent that the theorist then suggested could be one of the reasons Jasnah is so against religion and has feelings of not always being able to rely on family to protect her. Doesn't mean it's necessarily sexual in nature (but could be), but I found that interesting referencing the ardentia.

I'm hoping what Joy said above comes about and Lift becomes more mature and fun to read.

Ya I'm with ya. Thus far I've groaned every time I have to read Lift's POV - just find her incredibly irritating.

That's actually good if it turns out that way - I'd enjoy reading about a relationship between them developing over several books to be honest rather than something quick and easy - and Sanderson likes conflict in his relationships per some interviews he's given.

Obviously same answer as a bunch here, but Moash for me as well.