Shard Obsessed

Yeah, that's not how maps work. Just because you're in a certain place already doesn't mean the representation of that place on the map ceases to exist. The map looks like Roshar because of in-world artistic representation 'Roshar is the center of the universe' kinda thing. But just like a map of the British Empire at its height.....just because the map was based in Britain, doesn't mean that it would just show America, India, etc and not have a representation of Britain itself. It's a pseudo-geographical representation of the Cognitive Realm, not a Super Mario Bros. game. I don't know that portals are the right way to describe how one gets from one world to another using Shadesmar. To be honest, 'portals' doesn't really sound like Brandon's style.

It's possible that since saying 36, Brandon decided on a couple other ideas which fit well into his greater cosmology which he hasn't talked about yet. Alternatively, the space travel Mistborn trilogy could include visits to shard planets that never get their own books.

Ah hah! I called it! So Brandon confirmed at a signing that there are ten core shardworlds in the cosmere! I'm convinced now that I'm right about the map of Shadesmar reflecting the cosmere - the expanses are four worlds, the seas are three and the nexus are the last three.

Yup, that's what I think - its the spiritual commitment to a facet of Honor, with the spoken Oaths being the specific focus, and why there's such an importance on speaking the words.

Right exactly. The command is still the focus, or the filter. Just the degree of training and ability gives one more options in how you give it, allowing for non-verbal as well as verbal - but the command itself remains the same.

I think shape isn't the best descriptor for it - pattern seems to be more accurate. Brandon describes it as the pattern of the molecular structure of metals is what acts as the filter. I think this is key, because pattern implies a certain repetition...its not just a shape, its the SAME shape, over and over and thus always filtering the power in the same way and resulting in the same effects. Plus, it makes focuses a bit more flexible. Commands aren't the shape your mouth makes, they're the pattern of words, filtering the power to animate things in certain ways. As for surgebinding, I'm fairly certain the oaths are the key there - or what Chaos was describing as the intent behind Commands, a Cognitive focus. The noble motivations or acts of practitioners (Kaladin's protective instincts, Shallan's truth's, etc) are what act as a filter to the power, but the oaths, the spoken words are the true focus, the pattern that efficiently filters the power to achieve a desired effect every time. It's like with BioChroma - if you have enough breath, you can animate clumsily, you'll stumble into ways to use the power, but you need knowledge of the Commands to really use the power efficiently, as its meant to. It's why Allomancy requires pure metals....tainted or poor quality metals will still burn, but inefficiently, because the pattern, the molecular structure that's the key to filtering the power isn't what it's supposed to be. Raoden lucked his way some magic effects in Elantris by mimicking shapes in books, but it took a true understanding of Elantris and the patterns it laid out to use its magic to the fullest. The same with the Oaths of the Radiants. All the Orders use Surgebinding, the different Oaths for the different Orders are just different filters resulting in specific powers, much like steel vs iron in the metallic arts.

The real question about Sel is - if you can't (or shouldn't) go to Shadesmar on Sel, how are Galladon and the other Elantrian world-hoppers traveling? Did they use the Aon for transportation? If so, and given how we all assume their power is lessened away from Sel - how do they intend to get back?

Odium didn't have to create the Voidbringers actually - maybe they were creatures of Honor or Cultivation that Odium simply corrupted or twisted. We know Roshar has Voidbinding, which by its very name sounds almost a direct opposite to Surgebinding. We've had references to Voidlight in contrast to Stormlight. Ten Fools where Honor has Ten Heralds. If you look at other worlds with more than one magic system, even Scadrial where Ruin and Preservation are close to complete opposites - none of their magic systems mirror each other as much as they seem to on Roshar from what little we know so far. Ruin, for all the ominous implications inherent in his name, was essentially entropy. And although he does seem to be one of the darker shards, entropy is still a necessary part of the life cycle of the universe. It's like a fire that clears away all the dead parts of a forest so that a new one can grow unimpeded. Ruin may not have been a nice guy, but he was still an integral cog in birth/life/death/new birth cycle of things. Odium, on the other hand, is just pain and suffering and hatred and all around badness. I think what we're referring to as power levels is inherently misleading, because we're talking about sixteen fundamental forces of creation, the universe, life, whatever. At a certain point, once you get high enough up the ladder, things like 'stronger' and 'weaker' aren't really relevant. How do you really rank whether the personification of honor is stronger or weaker than the personification of devotion, for example? Or ruin vs odium? It's like saying, oh hurricane vs earthquake, who wins? The key, I think, is in the shard's intent. Ruin could help preservation create, because he's still part of the creation cycle. I don't think Odium actually created the Voidbringers because I don't think Odium CAN create. So in that area, he's weaker than Endowment and Cultivation and Preservation and the others. But when it comes to destruction, or corrupting honor or bonds or oaths...he's the best there is, because he's the personification of that. So he inevitably has an edge when it comes to splintering other shards or corrupting what they've made...its part of his nature. As to Preservation making himself weaker than Ruin....its not about power levels, per se, its about him going more against his own nature, the intent of his shard. It's not like he had a set amount of power and then put x amount of power into creating humanity....its that he went against his own strengths and used his power in a way that it wasn't really intended to be used....so it's not that it was a power drain, it was that it was an INEFFICIENT power drain. I think this is an important distinction, because take for instance Nalthis, the only world so far with just one shard. Endowment created humanity all on its own, so if it were just a matter of power levels, then logically wouldn't Endowment be weaker from creating humanity itself than either Ruin or Preservation, who each only put a portion of their power into creating humanity? Yet if Odium were to go to Nalthis, I don't think he'd find a radically weakened Endowment....because giving life is part of Endowment's nature. Its his/her strength, what it's meant to do, and thus creating life is just part of it fulfilling its own nature, rather than something that would leave it on its deathbed, helpless to fight back if Odium came calling.

I wouldn't be surprised if dragons exist in Dragonsteel or if they could turn into humans, but I doubt Hoid is one himself. And for the record, Erikson (although I'm a big fan) hardly invented the wheel when it comes to dragons shapeshifting into humans. Raymond E. Feist's Midkemia novels have had dragons that could transform into humans for a good couple decades now, a couple Weis and Hickman series have featured this, and once you move past Euro-centric fantasy worlds and series it's even more common. Hell, there's even a children's series from the eighties/nineties by Lawrence Yep, featuring a dragon princess who could take human form - and one of those books was even called Dragon Steel. Fortunately, ideas - much like titles - can not be copyrighted and its all about the execution.

I agree with the idea that this map is of the cosmere, and think about it - Nexus, Expanses and Seas....three different geographies....and there are three different realms. The Physical, the Cognitive and the Spiritual. My guess is that there are ten shard worlds as well, and that while all of them exist in all three realms, they each have a stronger presence in one of the realms than the other two. For instance an 'Expanse' world exists primarily in the Physical realm while a 'Sea' world has a stronger presence in the Spiritual Realm. My theory is one of the indicators of whether a Shardworld is rooted more in the Spiritual, Cognitive or Physical realm is in how the magic of a world is expressed. I believe the Seas are shardworlds with a heavier presence in the Spiritual realm. Expanses refers to 'a wide and open extent, as of a surface or land', and I think those are shardworlds with a stronger foothold in the Physical realm. Nexus refers to a place where two things converge, and I think its a good way to describe shardworlds of the Cognitive realm, as Thought is kind of in between the Physical and Spiritual - its where the stuff inside, motivations, inner natures, etc transforms into intent (thoughts) that shape actions that affect the physical. Nalthis, IMO, is a Spiritual shardworld, making it a Sea on the Shadesmar map. Specifically, I think its the Sea of Souls. That is in essence what Breaths are - both the Breaths that power everyday BioChroma and the Divine Breaths that are how Endowment Returns people - from beyond 'a wave or sea of light' as is described in Warbreaker. In Hero of Ages, Sazed said he couldn't quite get to where Vin and Elend were in the afterlife, though he thought he could learn in time - I think this is because Scadrial is an Expanse, or Physical world, further removed from the Spiritual realm. But a shardworld focused primarily in the Spiritual Realm, like Nalthis, would be much closer to its afterlife, making it easier for souls to cross from one side to the other. Basically, I'm saying I think Nalthis we see in Warbreaker is simply the physical shadow of the real Nalthis, a sea of souls in the Spiritual realm where Endowment's presence is centered and which sometimes sends back souls from beyond a wave or sea of light to warn people and help shape the future. Roshar is also a Sea or Spiritual shardworld - specifically the Sea of Lost Lights, where Shallan pops up when she comes to Shadesmar. Much like the Breaths on Nalthis, the primary magic of Roshar comes from within - the oaths of the Orders of Radiants, which are born from people's spirits - their commitments to ideals such as honor, truth, etc. I'm willing to bet that Surgebinding's opposite, Voidbinding, comes from commitment to negative ideals. Regardless, there are other arguments for Roshar being a Sea with a strong presence in the Spiritual realm - I wonder if the Tranquiline Halls that Voidbringers were set to have cast man out of are completely in the Spiritual realm? As for the Sea of Lost Lights specifically - mostly I suspect that due to it being where Shallan emerged in Shadesmar, but the Lost Lights could refer to man being cast out of the Tranquiline Halls, or something to do with spren. I think the Expanses are worlds with a stronger Physical presence, and these are the worlds with magics hardwired into its peoples' spiritual DNA - perhaps because these are the worlds furthest removed from the Spiritual realm and the purest sources of Investiture? (Just a random thought). But Scadrial would definitely be a Physical realm or Expanse - I think its the Expanse of the Densities. I think the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Taldain, the world of White Sand. (One of the only things I've seen said about that world is that its on a fixed axis, so one half of it is always in sunlight and the other half is always in night). I'm not sure which worlds would be the Expanse of the Vapors and the fourth unnamed Expanse, though I suspect one is the SILENCE DIVINE world. The Cognitive worlds then would be the Nexus worlds on the map. I haven't decided yet if I think Sel is a Cognitive or a Spiritual shardworld, and thus a Nexus or a Sea on the map. If it is a Sea, then we haven't seen any Cognitive or Nexus worlds yet, but I kinda suspect its a Nexus. I have another theory that magic practitioners from the Nexus worlds would be most adept at using Shadesmar to world-hop, but that's too long to outline here.

Hmm, I thought there were two series/stories set on Yolen - LIAR OF PARTINEL, which was a two part story that kicked off the whole cosmere, and then the actual five book DRAGONSTEEL series that was centuries later. Are BOTH stories before the rest of the cosmere stuff, or is the five book DRAGONSTEEL series possibly later on in the cosmere arc?

On twitter, someone asked Brandon this: To which Brandon replied this: Interesting. I'm not science savvy enough to figure out where he's going with that, but it does seem to indicate he's going in an entirely different direction from using bendalloy/cadmium bubbles to warp space-time or achieve relativistic effects. Anyone think they can piggyback onto his train of thought there?

Hey guys, first post here and I don't see a thread for this already so thought I would start one. I saw on the twitter chat today that Brandon confirmed another shard name, and it got me to wondering just how long it'll be before all of them are revealed....will we have to wait for Liar of Partinel or Dragonsteel (one of which is the presumed story of Adonalsium's shattering, I believe) or will we at least have hints of the others by the time Brandon writes those stories? Taking a look at the distribution we know so far (and please correct me if I'm wrong), we have locations of eight confirmed, with two more alluded to. Ati (Ruin) and Leras (Preservation) were on Scadrial of course, the setting of MISTBORN Endowment is on Nalthis, setting of WARBREAKER Rayse (Odium), Cultivation and Tanavast (Honor) were on Roshar, setting of THE STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE Aona (Devotion/synonym) and Skai (Dominion) were on Sel, setting of ELANTRIS So that's the eight confirmed, half of the total shards. In addition, I believe Brandon's confirmed in Q&A's that there is one shard on the world of THE SILENCE DIVINE, and I'm guessing it's unlikely we'll see much about that shard before that book. Also, I believe Brandon's confirmed in Q&A's that his unreleased work WHITE SAND is set on the world where Bavadin is located. No mention though if there are any other shards on that world. That's two more loosely confirmed though. The only other projected cosmere novels he's talked about though are the LIAR OF PARTINEL/DRAGONSTEEL books and possibly AETHER OF NIGHT, though I think people have made mention of him being unlikely to ever publish AETHER OF NIGHT unless its radically reworked, due to it contradicting cosmere canon in part now. So eight published locations and two more confirmed, so six shards still to place. So possibilities: 1) The remaining six are split between the worlds of WHITE SAND and DRAGONSTEEL 2) There are more shards on both of those worlds, but also some on/in worlds and books Brandon has yet to mention, perhaps because he hasn't created them yet - ie, he could be leaving a couple of shards unassigned to a particular world at this point, so he doesn't cut himself off from the possibility of coming up with another series or shardworld he wants to write in the future. 3) There are some shards that aren't rooted to a single world but are instead world hoppers like Hoid and the Seventeenth Shard. So for instance, while there's only one shard on Nalthis NOW, another 'new' shard could be on it by the time the WARBREAKER sequel happens, or could debut in the next ELANTRIS or MISTBORN book for instance. Anyways, since I don't think its likely we're going to get another Shard name out of Brandon any time soon, I was thinking there are similar, more harmless questions we might be able to ask, to get more clues. Some will get RAFO'd I'm sure, but one or two might get an answer. For instance: 1) What's the earliest book where we'll have all sixteen shard names accounted for? 2) Are any shards going to show up in future works on worlds where they haven't been previously? IE, a new shard in the Elantris sequel, checking in on Sel after learning of Odium splintering Aona and Skai. 3) Do you have all sixteen shards linked to a specific world at this point? 4) Is Roshar the world with the most shards present, or is there another world with more than three shards on it? 5) Is the presence of another shardworld (world of SILENCE DIVINE) in Roshar's solar system going to play a role in THE STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE? (In which case, we might find out more about that world's shard before that book is published). Any other questions along similar lines you guys can think of to ask Brandon at signings or events? The way I figure it, we might not be able to find out who all the Shards are ahead of time, but if we can figure out where the last six shards are located, we can at least know what books/series we have to wait for to finally see them all. Kind of a timeline for answers, in absence of actual answers.