hawkedup

7 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on returning to shelved projects. Do you ever do it? What kind of changes have you noticed in your writing? Have you ever gone back to something after leaving it alone for years and had good results as you returned to it?

I was working on a novel for two years (I submitted a bit here a while back) but then just hit a brick wall on it. I shelved it in October or so thinking I'd never come back to it. I started a new, simpler, novel in December with one goal: FINISH. At that point I had never completed anything beyond first draft nanowrimos. The new book has been through 3 full drafts and I am VERY close to completely the final draft. I don't think it's publishable by any means but I learned so much.

Anyway, my plan was to move forward and leave that previous book behind but I went back to it just to see what I could see. I cut it at the point where it started having problems and then completely re-worked an outline for everything that came after that point. It was SOOO much better than what I had planned before. So now I will be finishing that one.

2 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

To be honest, this isn't something I consciously think of when i draft. If I do, I will never get anything on the page. This is more of a revision tool, so for me its not really building a scene but excavating it from the mess. 

Interesting perspective!

So, is it safe to say that every scene must have--if not a beginning, middle and ending--at least an arc?

Can you tell when writing if you're in a scene or not? 

On 6/1/2020 at 1:49 PM, Sarah B said:

1. What tone and type of story are you expecting?

Schlock Mercenary type space opera.

On 6/1/2020 at 1:49 PM, Sarah B said:

2. What elements would you expect to see?

Cultural building.

On 6/1/2020 at 1:49 PM, Sarah B said:

3. What big moment/climax would you anticipate, based on the first chapter?

The cat.

Not much else to add to the comments above. The best part was handling so many different species in a natural way that was both descriptive enough for the moment but vague enough that I never felt like the narrative was being interrupted. If I had to pick a con it would be the narrative voice, which feels at odd with the narrative itself, but it's hard to tell how invasive it actually is based on 9 pages.

On 5/31/2020 at 11:50 AM, PiedPeterPiper said:

at what point is it counterproductive

When the sense of progress halts. I'd say a page is pushing it but really a paragraph is too much. If there is no sense of progress the information being delivered has no meaning in the moment and is therefore skim-able. 

How do you guys build a scene?

What are some prerequisite every scene must have? 

How many scenes are in your most recently finished project (and how many words total)?

My $0.02:

My biggest concern is that in 13 pages we only really get one actual scene. It's from when H opens the door until he is safe again. That part reads and flows really well, honestly. As of right now, the story I'm reading is about keeping W safe. I actually think this is a great story. Keeping an animals safe has mass appeal and isn't something you see very often in modern SF--especially not right off the bat.

However, everything before this is vague to the point where if this was a book I bought off the shelf I wouldn't bother remembering any of the details. Giving you the benefit of the doubt (something I wouldn't do as solely a reader) I'm going to assume much of it will make more sense upon a re-read, and if this is the case, I admire the ambition. However, even if this is the case, that means the the information we receive isn't actually pertinent to me in the here and now and it is therefore skim-able. Which is a bummer because it seems like you spent time on the world but all the interesting stuff happened off screen.

10 hours ago, Mandamon said:

--Do we know what a spectral is? Or is this WRS on my part?

Spectrals are the magic users of the world.

10 hours ago, Mandamon said:

--so are all of those in the corp spectrals? I'm confused on classification

Everyone in the Mage Corps is a spectral. Every spectral is supposed to be in the Mage Corps. There are unregistered spectrals in the world, people who don't want to give up their families and the like, but being caught is... very bad.

10 hours ago, Mandamon said:

--wait, M and R didn't get on the train at all? Or the train made a stop later and they got off?

The train stopped. Everyone got on. The others were questioned before Z woke up. R and M then got off the train with their bluecoat guards and started heading north (the same way they were traveling to begin with). Thanks for flagging the confusion here. I'll make sure this is all much clearer in the next edit.

10 hours ago, Mandamon said:

are the bluecoats the same as the mage corp?

No. Bluecoats are elite soldiers but not magic users.

10 hours ago, Mandamon said:

It says they were moving along a road.

That's on me. I had them on the road originally but then thought it would be better if they continued to use the tunnel.

8 hours ago, Robinski said:

Oh, so is there are fork somewhere, or a triangle? I've sort of assumed in my head that the pueblo is in the west and they were travelling east to the capital. Obvs, both capital and front could be east of the pueblo, and therefore north-south travel would be required between the capital and the front.

Ah, I see the confusion. I'll be more clear in the future, but no the pueblo is one of a few along a main road that goes North and South connecting the capital city in the north (where the God King is) and the Front in the far south. So the kids left the pueblo heading north. Encountered the train heading south. Now Z is going south and R and M are still heading in the same direction, north, as before.

Thanks for the help @Mandamon! Very helpful as usual!

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

So, what, two layers in some places, but one in others?

That's what I was going for, implying that it actually broke the skin in some places. I'll be clearer in the next draft. This is also the pain she is feeling you mention later.

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

these are not birds of prey

Good catch! This was a remnant. Original it was a falcon but thought carrion eater was better image. Fixed!

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

I don't buy Z thinking she's crazy.

I was going for "hoping" she was crazy but I must've missed the mark. 

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

Hmm, this makes my palms sweat. If the train is travelling beyond it natural means, there is a question of the brakes not performing adequately to stop it. I can see you're calling that out with al this jerking around, which was starting to bug me, because if a train is driven properly, that should not happen.

A remnant from before I read all the train statistics you provided! Thanks for the flag.

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

Was the self-harm highlighted before?

A few times but always in passing. This was the most obvious--so far.

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

How does she know they are not on the train, and how does she know her mum is?

She knows her mom is because they tell her she is but she doesn't know whether her friends are on the train or not.

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

Wait, the train is going away from the city now?

The train is going to the Front, which is in the south. The city is to the north.

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

- "M had made ogling the man’s biceps" - this seems way-out of character for M. I'm really not sure I believe this.

Was going for Rico thinking she was ogling more than she was actually ogling. Will make sure its clear this is, at least mostly,  in his head.

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

- "He knew at least part of the situation between Z and her own mother." - should this be M, because he's drawing the comparison?

Yep!

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

Why would he liken her to a machine in a way that sounds like it's supposed to be complimentary? It's really not.

No, it really isn't, and it would probably hurt Z's feelings.

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

I think we actually need this scene quite a bit earlier, or to see him earlier and understand his motivations so that you can use him where you need him with proper effect. Mostly now, I am just confused and feeling a bit narked at this guy popping up from nowhere. Because I don't know anyone in the scene, it's difficult to feel any investment in what they are saying.

Noted.

On 10/1/2019 at 0:33 AM, Robinski said:

I don't understand why she is moving away from the front; it feels like she's moving away from where the interest and action is.

Once the train stops, Z is *at* the Front. R and M are the ones moving away from the Front, toward the city.

Thanks for everything, @Robinski! As always, the chapter is leaps and bounds better after your comments!

Hey, everybody!

So, life has been getting in the way of writing again... But this time it's something GOOD. I got a promotion at work! Woo!

I'm going to be mostly MIA for the next month or so while I'm learning the ins and outs of my new position. I'm still going to be an active participant in the group, reading everything and commenting when I can, but I'm sorry if I'm not able to do proper critiques like you all deserve.

I will of course be pulling myself out of the submission rotation until such time as I can provide proper feedback. 

Anyway, just thought I'd drop a line. Happy writing!

Previously -

Z, R and M have found a "demon egg" which revealed to them a secret: People are dying of old age decades before they are supposed to.

They are on their way to Rossendar City to bring this information to the God King when they encounter Z's estranged mother who saves them from a demon and shows them a secret train tunnel that will help them get to the city faster.

However, a train carrying important officials passes and stops when Z's soul lantern flares and finally takes its first form: a boring candle. 

Z wakes up in an interrogation room on the train. General Y reveals that Z is one of the anointed--someone who can serve as a host for the God King.

Notes:
- We are now into Act 2 and I'm really starting to get hit with that whole Impostor Syndrome thing. Doubting myself and the story. I'm particularly afraid that splitting the plot into two (temporarily) is going to make people disinterested.

As always, thanks for reading, and don't be gentle!

I finally have the next chapter written if I could submit Mon 30th please

On 9/24/2019 at 7:51 PM, The Kraken's Daughter said:

Hey all, RL got really busy for a while, which is why I haven't been around for a few weeks. Hoping to get back into the routine of critting and submitting!

Looking forward to seeing you around again! 

3 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

The only Stephen King books I've read are the first three in The Dark Tower, and I didn't even finish the third one.

That surprises me. I love the Dark Tower so much, especially book 3. (If you had said book 4 I would've understood because that is a flashback book and I skip it in my re-reads because it's so much weaker than the rest.) It's one of the only series I'd put on the same level as Brandon's work.

3 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

I like it too, but @Mandamon and @kais have a good point about the danger of that in a kids book.

Young Reader books are literally full of kids doing dangerous things that they should never ever do in real life. Running away from home. Stealing cars. Riding makeshift rafts down the Mississippi. If the narrative makes the dangers clear and illustrates what happens if someone is careless, you actually might prevent a kid doing something stupid with poison ivy in real life. But that's just my two cents. It's your book and you of course should do what you feel comfortable with.

So, I was also kinda confused by the sudden appearance of the cabin and the way it tied to everyone seemed too convenient. This isn't to say I didn't like it, but we definitely need to know about it much earlier. 

I don't know why but I feel like your physical descriptions took a big step up in this submission. Up until now I've had a hard time figuring out the logistics of the action but I thought the scene(s) were set really well. It also helped my mind's eye during some of the less detailed moments (like the flashback roof stuff).

I'm glad A seems to be an active character finally.

Really like the poison ivy call back. I remember that sticking out to me when I read it and when E figures it out I literally went "Oooohhhhhh..." and I almost never express myself verbally while reading. I also like that the thing they will need to help fight M is something as dangerous as poison ivy.

I kept meaning to ask in previous critiques and only remembered this time because you name drop Stephen King (ph not v), but have you read the book IT? Not only do I get a Derry vibe from your story but there are some really fantastic bike riding scenes in that book.

Oops! Got busy at work. To be continued...

Do you get to choose your own reading material?

As Rick Sanchez would say, don't even trip, dawg! We got you.

What classes do you teach?

Um. Yeah. I REALLY like the poison ivy connection and I think taking it out would be a mistake. First of all we saw it before so when it came back it felt surprising yet inevitable. I've also never seen poison ivy being used in a supernatural story like this. I like that it gave a book they had found earlier meaning. The danger of burning it gave the narrative a direction I was excited to see explored--E willing to risk themself to save others.

As usual I'm here with my Sunday critique. I didn't make any notes because I was engrossed throughout and I'm really just jumping on the band wagon with this, honestly. Loved the chapter. In a lot of ways I felt like this was more climactic than the previous chapter because it really showcased all the character arcs and direction of the book. The reveal that M helped A was masterful. I really was just expecting a 2D villain and I'm glad there is more depth there. Honestly my favorite thing you've submitted so far. Kudos!

Since it's me and I have to at least say one negative thing, I don't know if it's believable that A's fellow workers during that time knew and were generally OK with him. Also, would he have even been hired?

I think I mentioned this before but I got a Borderlands vibe from this when I first read it and now with Borderlands 3 out and revolving around warring entertainment/militant corporations and insane streamers doing anything to get viewers, I thought I'd mention it again lol

I'll take a lowest priority spot, please. 

56 minutes ago, kais said:

I had the same concern. I think this is where a sensitivity reader would need to be hired to comment

This was more of a nod to this group than anything since you guys helped me fix so many sensitivity issues.  

1 hour ago, kais said:

The end is a great hook, although moreso because I have read cut chapters with what this lantern does for Z. It might not be as good a hook without that information, so I wonder if we couldn't have a bit more earlier about the god kings and what they do to their hosts?

That's a good idea on how to do it! My original plan was to cut in POVs that explained stuff about the world (like L's chapters) so when the same aspects came around in Z's POV the reader would have that "Ohhhhh..." moment, but now I'm not even sure I'm going to have other POVs at this point.
 

On 9/12/2019 at 6:04 AM, Robinski said:

So, comments:

Wow! So much to take in! Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with the train issue. I honestly had no idea the sound in a tunnel could be so complex! 

On 9/12/2019 at 6:04 AM, Robinski said:

Surely it would be locked all the time, for security reasons, if the God King or senior staff use it?

Crap. Looks like I have to hang another lantern. Hopefully something cooler than a candle.

On 9/12/2019 at 6:04 AM, Robinski said:

One thing struck me as odd, which was that I never understood why the train screeched to a halt after the scream.

I must've worded something wrong because there wasn't a scream in addition to the screech. Just the sound of the train stopping.
 

On 9/11/2019 at 8:00 AM, Mandamon said:

I felt like there was a lot of skipping over meetings and confrontations that would be good to know about, as the way you did things rushed things along quite a bit.

I haven't decided if the others should go with Z to the Front or not. In the last draft, they didn't, but they also weren't as big of players before either. Hm...

Thanks for reading and critiquing, everyone! It's been most helpful.

14 hours ago, Robinski said:

it could be really dramatic if the reader knows that Mor is under that cover, but Q. and M. do not. It's tempting, but it's yet another POV in the chapter

It would be really dramatic! Have you considered 3rd Person Cinematic instead of Limited? Considering the sheer number of POVs and characters in this piece, I could see it working. Of course it's probably too late for that kind of change.

Went back and re-read this one so I could get back on my line-by-lines. (I tried to make comments I would have the first time through.) 

I enjoyed it more the second time, which is saying something for me because I basically live by the Oscar Wilde code when it comes to reading books: “If one cannot enjoy reading a book over and over again, there is no use in reading it at all.”

I'm really late with the comments so I'll keep this short. I'd basically be parroting what everyone else said anyway. I thought M getting shot was going to be more severe. This was my favorite chapter up to this point. With a couple hiccups I thought the dialogue really popped. 

The chase scene is a bit sloppy. I can't picture the logistics of it.

The remote shut down on the car needs to be addressed much earlier. From the moment they took the car to when it shut down I was really really distracted by the fact that it hadn't shut down already. I don't see why the owner of the car couldn't disable it immediately. People can do that now from their phones.

I don't get why the cops let them go?

I LOVE them pulling the plane up and picking up 80. I want more here--just a bit. Gawking onlookers or something. I think it has real potential to fall into the Gaiman/Pratchett level of scene.

Probably not helpful, but, anyway, on to line-by-line for Ch 8!

1 minute ago, Robinski said:

Sorry I haven't responded on the train thing. I've been struggling for time with critiquing this novel for my IRL reading group. I'll build a response on that into this critique.

Don’t even worry about it, man! I 100% get it. No apologies necessary!

This is the complete chapter, including a revision of last weeks' submission based on your feedback. I didn't fix the train stuff, but I muddied it up so hopefully it isn't as distracting.
 

If you don't have time to read the revision, no problem. I put a break at the end of page 10. From there forward, it is fresh submission (2,000 words).
 

Thank you for reading and critiquing!

15 minutes ago, Silk said:

And, just in general, I'd be curious to get people's thoughts on how much work this was to critique. Would it reasonable for me to sometimes to submit, say, two at once? Three?

I'd be 100% OK with this! Keep in mind I'd mostly be "critiquing" for my own listening enjoyment, though.