dungeonfood

On 8/8/2020 at 7:39 PM, Mage said:

Nightblood's investiture is corrupted, which usually means the mixing of multiple shards' investitures.

Why do you say Nightblood's investiture is corrupted? If it was, I'd think it would be red in some way. See the WOB below:

FirstSelector

Does red in cosmere signify one Shard co-opting or corrupting another Shard's magic?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

I think it is also worth noting that Brandon says in Warbreaker's annotations that the nurse is a drab, which would seem to indicate that she is from Nalthis.

 

EDIT: Nope, I'm wrong. I'm thinking of Mab the cook. My bad.

 

In that case, I'm on board, now. Nurse Worldhopper FTW!

Since kandra don't have access to other magic systems, is it safe to say that a kandra would appear as a drab in Warbreaker?

I've had trouble getting into Alloy of Law thus far - the wild west style setting really doesn't appeal to me. That said, I'm a huge fan of everything Cosmere.

I'm afraid to troll the forum too much for risk of spoilers... Do I miss out on any major Cosmere developments or details if I don't finish this book?

I've read everything else in the Cosmere and just can't get into this one.

If they attempted live action, in addition to CGI expenses for the magic system there would be the issue of basic world characteristics. Yes, you've got spren all over the place, but you've also got all these plants and animals that are unique. Unless it's a scene based in Shinovar, that means you can't do a shoot with grass. This micromanagment would be really expensive compared to something like Game of Thrones, where most scenes they can just head over to the countryside.

Anybody know if Brandon is a Warcraft III fan? Now that this has come to my attention, I feel like there's no way it's just a coincidence.

Holden Caulfield

I did something like this a while ago. Strangely, it's almost the opposite to yours.

 

Here's the link.

Interesting! It's tough to figure out where Stormlight should go in the reading order - readers benefit the most from having tons of background before approaching Stormlight, but at the same time I think it's head and shoulders above anything else Brandon has written (which is intended as praise for Stormlight, not as any disrespect for his other works).

I'm happy with how I went about it, though. I started with Way of Kings, read everything else I could get my hands on, then came back for a hugely beneficial and enjoyable re-read before the release of Words of Radiance.

Hi all,

I just figured I'd share my recommendations for newbies on how to approach the mammoth that is the Cosmere. For a new reader, it can be difficult to figure out what's going on and how to learn more. Here's how I'd go about tackling the Cosmere works. Feel free to add your thoughts and amendments.

(copied from Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/3folks/which_step_into_the_cosmere_do_i_take_next/cty6130):
 

By order of importance (in my opinion):

• Stormlight - Right now, this is where the most Cosmere action is happening.
• Mistborn - Most relevant plot in the Cosmere besides Stormlight. There are three Eras planned, each in the form of its own trilogy. The first is completed, the second is underway. The third is post-Stormlight on the timeline, and will have great bearing on the Cosmere universe. Era one (the original trilogy) gives you quite a bit of insight into how a world in the Cosmere functions. I'd consider this must-read. (Full disclosure, I haven't been able to get hooked on the second trilogy. I'm not big on the setting. Gonna give it another try, though.)
• Warbreaker - The main things you'll get here are another magic system and a couple prominent crossover ("worldhopper") characters. This provides some nice easter eggs in Words of Radiance.
• Elantris - Doesn't give a huge amount, but a light read. Again, provides a bit of insight about how Cosmere magic systems work and background for at least one minor worldhopping character.
• White Sand (Unpublished) - This one is interesting. It's going to be published next year as a graphic novel, but you've been able to get it for a long time by writing Brandon and asking for a pdf of the unpublished draft. This contains a character that, to date, hasn't showed up in full but has Hoid-esque qualities that could make her a big player.
• Sixth of the Dusk (Novella) - I love this story. Its main Cosmere function is to foreshadow the third Mistborn trilogy. It's a great standalone read, too.
• Emperor's Soul (Novella) - Good story, no noteworthy tie-ins to Stormlight as of right now. It does flesh out the Elantris planet a bit more, and could have greater impact in the future.
• Shadows for Silence (Novella) - I'm not sure if the community has really pinned down anything huge in this one. There are some tidbits if you dig deep. Still a good read.

Stormlight is the most rewarding, and what first got me interested in Brandon Sanderson. I think it's a great place to start, and worth a second read once you've ventured into other novels if you're up to it (if you're on this forum, chances are that you're hooked). Release dates boxed me into reading Way of Kings, then gobbling up everything else I could until Words of Radiance was released. I'm happy I went about it this way, as it made Words of Radiance more rewarding.

Following Way of Kings: If you're strapped for time, start with the original Mistborn trilogy and Warbreaker. Elantris shouldn't be skipped, but isn't a top priority either. Read White Sand when it comes out, or write Brandon to get the draft version.

Other stances are welcome.

So I've been looking around, and so far I haven't found a definitive list of worldhoppers. So I figured I'd start one, and hopefully people will chime in to help me fill this out.

So far, we've got:

Hoid:

We all know and love him. He appears in every Cosmere book.

From: Yolen

Appearance: varies?

In books:

Roshar:

• Wit
• writer of "The Letter" in epigraphs

Scadrial:

• FE- informant to Kelsier in Luthadel
• WoA- unnamed leader of Terris refugees
• HoA- informant in Fadrex City

Nalthis:

• summoned to Court of the Gods by Lightsong

Abilities:

• Lightweaving
• Feruchemy
• Awakening
• Allomancy? (posesses lerasium bead)

Khriss:

Potentially the most knowledgeable worldhopper

From: Taldain

Appearance: dark-skinned

In books:

Taldain: (unpublished)

• main character in White Sand

Nazh:

Collects documents and drawings for Khriss

From: ?

Appearance: ?

In books:

Roshar:

• Drew/collected/annotaded assorted chapter artwork
• Seen as ardent drawing Bridge 4 before being shooed away by Rock

Vasher:

One of the Five Scholars and wielder of Nightblood

From: Nalthis

Appearance: Long hair, brown eyes, black beard, usually dressed in simple cloth clothing tied with rope

In books:

Nalthis:

• Main character in WB

Roshar:

• Appears as Zahel the weaponsmaster

Abilities:

• Awakening

17th Shard Members:

Seen searching for Hoid in Ishikk interlude in WoK

Galladon

From Elantris

Demoux

From Mistborn

"Blunt"

From White Sand (unpublished)

Ghostbloods: 

Mraize

Iyatil

Nightblood

The invested sword

From: Nalthis

Appearance: black, thin scabbard

In books:

Nalthis

• major character

Roshar

• given to Szeth by Nalan in WoR

Unnamed kandra worldhopper

Unnamed terriswoman worldhopper

Unnamed worldhopper from Threnody

Unconfirmed:

Nurse in Warbreaker

Terriswoman?

Felt

Named twice as Venture spy in Final Empire and in WoR as soldier who discovered the plateau with the oathgate

Too bad. I may just drop the money. If it encourages him to keep working hard on this particular series, then it was money well spent.

I remember seeing a promotion for a previous Brandon Sanderson book (I forget which one) where if you had the hard copy you could get a discounted version of the e-book. I pre-ordered the hardcover, but prefer to read on kindle when possible (a book this big is a little tough to bring on trips).

Anyone know if there's anything like this for Words of Radiance?

NO. The quota hath inhibited me from practicing my freedom of expression.

In the Lift chapter, it's stated that only Lift can touch Wyndle. While this dust that Wyndle leaves behind is occasionally notices by people, it doesn't say whether or not people can feel it. In order for this theory to work people would have to be able to. Crem is definitely not in the cognitive realm by the time it reaches earth. If Wyndle's leftover dust really does go fully from the cognitive to physical realms, then this theory holds some weight.

I haven't seen anything about this, but Shalash seems to destroy art in places that Szeth visits. She destroyed the statue in the prologue before Szeth killed the king, and she's also destroyed one in Azir where the two Primes were assassinated. There's a possibility she just goes to places with great troves of art, which would correspond with the important people Szeth is sent to kill, but I don't think so. Elhokar's 10 statues of the Heralds on the shattered plains are left in tact, for example.

Note: I tried to find evidence that Szeth killed somebody in Emul, since that's where Shalash was smashing things up in the Baxil chapter, but couldn't locate the proper list of people he killed. I know Kaladin flies over Emul in his chapter where he follows the stormwall (when he asks for clarification if the place he flew over actually exists), but I don't think that's the same place where he sees Szeth killing people. If anyone can dig up something about somebody in Emul being assassinated, that would go a long way.

Got it. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't an oversight.

Does anybody else have those days where they wake up in the morning, remember WoR isn't coming out in January after all, and just fall into a deep and insurmountable despair? It feels like Bridge 4 up in here.

I can't say anything explicitly (due to the Steelhunt rules) but the epigraph in Kaladin Ch. 2 of WoR is relevant to this conversation. I'd recommend that anyone interested who hasn't yet completed the Shardhunt should give it a try and take a look.

Hey guys,

FYI the most recent Steelhunt unlock on Brandon's site has a second half to Kaladin Ch. 2 (which isn't in this thread as of right now). Anybody with access to Windrunner's doc might want to update it.

Thanks again for putting all of these in one easy-to-find place!

I have 2 issues with this theory:

1. Word of Brandon has it that Kaladin's Windrunner powers are stronger (or have more potential) than Szeth's.

It would seem that if Szeth is holding Jezrien's Honorblade he should have powers stronger than those of a basic Radiant...

2. WoR spoilers: 

I haven't checked out Emperor's Soul yet- hadn't heard much about it. That is what I meant by "companion book", though.

Would you guys say, in the realm of non-Cosmere works, Legion is the way to go?

Ok, so I'll preface with two quick facts:

1. I've read all the main Cosmere stories (excepting companion books)
2. I'm an INCREDIBLY slow reader

This leads me to to my question: Is it worth getting into the non-Cosmere works? I have many books and series on the horizon (e.g. Wise Man's Fear, Assassin's Apprentice, Wheel of Time series) and have to be a bit choosy with what I spend my time on because each book is a major commitment for me. That said, Way of Kings is my favorite book I've ever read.

If I were to read some of the non-Cosmere books, which should I read? While I love Brandon Sanderson to death, I thought Elantris was so-so and permanently put down Alloy of Law after 2 chapters.

Eh, I doubt it. The ecology and geography of the world is so centered around hightstorms, it would have taken major shard-meddling to adjust the life-forms to be able to survive highstorms suddenly appearing. At the very least, I doubt there was a time without highstorms when humans lived on Roshar.

Being a person who's worked a good amount with ecology IRL, I don't find it so unbelievable that things that survived the initial shock of periodic highstorms evolved to cope.

I did, however, see an interesting theory in another thread (I forget where, but it was a very old thread) in which it was suggested that initially Roshar looked like Earth (i.e. like Shinovar). However, with the introduction of highstorms, Shinovar is in fact the only place that was unaltered. This throws the theory of Cultivation's influence out the window (so who knows what Cultivation actually DOES have influence over...), but I think it's worthwhile to think about. Also seems to fit with Mistborn themes a bit.

In one of the threads hoser posted, I found a reference to this epigraph, though the poster's analysis skipped over what stood out to me...

What stands out to me here is the word "truth". Note that it's a Shin talking. This has absolutely got to have something to do with being "truthless".

I like it, obviously, but if you consider the time difference and context of the prologue, you might not find is so difficult to believe the two regions could be the same. For one, there is a massive Desolation-battle concluding on that land, and Kalak (I believe) even mentions that all the destruction indicates the Dustbringers (again I think I remember) doing their work well. So on top of it looking different for those reasons, it might have had thousands of years to grow into what it looks like now. I'm not certain on the timing between, but it's been a long time to put it simply. 

I like it though, your relating it to Mistborn themes gives it more credit I think, thank you. 

I like the concept a lot. I still find it difficult to believe that, without some kind of Shardic intervention, the place in any of those flashbacks could be Shinovar. I did, however, look through the Prologue again: there is a surprising lack of anything that could indicate highstorms. As we know, Shinovar is sheltered from highstorms by the mountains.

Now that I think about it, Dalinar's flashback at Feverstone Keep indicated unusual weather:

Eight weeks? Forty days of winter at once? That was rare. Despite the cold, the other three soldiers looked anything but engaged by their guard duties. One was even dozing.

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 728). Tor Fantasy.

Sanderson must have included that for a reason...

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there's any indication of "a time before highstorms"? Or a lack of reference to them in any other flashbacks? I think they're a reaction by Honor to Odium in some way, but who knows when they started. Stormlight infusion and his ability to send messages to Dalinar come to mind.

I was just reading the Szeth/Shin Conspiracy thread, and it got me thinking. The basic speculation was that Shin discovered Honorblades, and built Shone Shamanism around hiding the secret. I've been doing a second read-through of tWoK, and I like many parts of this theory. However, I'd like to propose my own. I don't think sacredness of stone has to do with Honorblades, but rather thunderclasts. Let me explain.

Part 1:

Mistborn spoilers*:

*If you skipped this spoiler, it simply contains some evidence that Sanderson is capable of this kind of conspiracy-laden writing

We also know that Shin religion has other truths preserved in its religion, after others have forgotten. Note that the Shin still know about stormlight (and by the use of the word "sacred" in this quote, I do think it stems from Shin religion, and not just Shen's knowledge of surgebinding):

"They held sapphires infused with Stormlight. Profane. How could the men of these lands use something so sacred for mere illumination?"

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 22). Tor Fantasy.

So, in The Stormlight Archive, we see the present-day application of Shin religion: Shin do not walk on (or interact with) stone. I would suggest that this branches from the ancient knowledge of thunderclasts, and their relation to stone. We know, from the Prologue, that thunderclasts 1) are made of stone, and 2) come from stone:

"...[Kalak] passed cracked, oddly shaped hollows where thunderclasts had ripped themselves free of the stone to join the fray."

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 15). Tor Fantasy.

I would suggest that Shin culture has preserved the danger associated with stone by labeling it "sacred". End part 1 of my conspiracy theory.

Part 2:

Think about the geography of Shin in the world. Think about the geography of stone. Shin religion, and its application with regard to stone, has effectively secluded the Shin people to the west in Shinovar. Likewise, they remain somewhat protected from the events of the east.

Shin religion could be protecting Shin from the area of the world where Odium has influence. Where are the parshendi and parshmen (who may or may not have some direct relation to voidbringers)? Should the thunderclasts 'return', where would they arise (i.e. where is the world's mass of stone)? In fact, what has the landscape looked like in EVERY one of Dalinar's visions (the supposedly significant moments in the evolution of the world)? All of the visions have been based in rocky, highstorm-afflicted areas (i.e. not Shinovar). Everything that is associated with instability, change, and danger is located in the east, where Shin religion effectively forbids its people to 'trod'.

Part 3:

In the same way that I feel Shin reverence of stone is related to something significant, I think there's a reason that parshendi leave bodies untouched and lying on stone. In the event that the bodies do not die on stone, they are carried there.

"'Parshman workers,' Sigzil explained. 'They’re allowed to care for their own dead; it’s one of the few things they seem passionate about. They grow irate if anyone else handles the bodies. They wrap them in linen and carry them out into the wilderness and leave them on slabs of stone.'”

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 772). Tor Fantasy.

The parshendi affinity for stone, juxtaposed with the Shin deference, is somewhat telling. I don't have a solid enough theory to elaborate on this, but I would speculate that it has something to do with thunderclasts, pupating (as seen with chasmfiends), and the parshmen/parshedi ability to change forms.

On Honorblades:

Here's why I think the Honorblade theory (of Shin discovering and hiding the Honorblades) is incorrect:

Through the same reasoning contained in what I said above, the physical landscape of the place where the Honorblades were left does not match that of Shinovar. I haven't seen anything that points to Shinovar being the location of anything of historical/mythological significance. That said, the fact that Shinovar isn't prevalent in any historical analysis we've seen seems significant and possibly telling.

Here's a reason I could be wrong:

For [the Honorblade theory] to work, Shinnovar would've had to literally grow around those Blades in the millenia after the last Desolation. 

Shinovar has been speculated by many to be the home of, or at least under the influence of, Cultivation. Based on Argent's thought, Cultivation could very well be involved in an elaborate cover-up. 

Why, though? I've got no idea.

Tangents:

Because I've dealt so heavily in this post with geography, I'd just like to bring forward the relative influences of the different Shards on different parts of the world. I think it's pretty well-accepted that the vegetation differences in Shinovar are attributable to Cultivation, while the Highstorms are attributable to Honor.

From a Brandon Sanderson Q&A:

Wetlander: Are the highstorms related to the splintering of Honor? (Brandon spoke over the word Honor in starting his response)
A: The highstorms are more related to the mist from Mistborn which terminology we have not discussed yet. (also affirmed the well as being similar).

The highstorms are not arbitrary. What their function is, I do not know for sure. However, as for speculation:

I would guess that Cultivation has similar functions somewhere in the world. This means a "conciousness" and a "body". I reject the hypothesis that Cultivation is the Night Watcher, because nothing we've seen about Shards in other books indicates they can have an anthropomorphic form in the world (the nature of the Night Watcher does not seem to fit that of Cultivation, either). There is some power bestowed by Cultivation within the world that we have yet to see or to recognize. I would suggest that this material or energy is contained within Shinovar.