shadowwisp

Man, I feel bad for saying this since it seems like everyone else here loved it but.....I hated it.

This is easily my least favorite Brandon Sanderson story. Maybe it was the comic book format (but I liked White Sand) but everything was so shallow and nothing made sense. There was no feeling of the puzzles falling into place perfectly as I expected with Brandon Sanderson books. I have a lot of questions but I don't think they will be answered and instead I get the strong impression that you just have to accept certain things which again is very atypical of a Sanderson story. True, this is just the first volume but I just feel so completely dissatisfied after finishing that story that I don't know if I will get the next one.  I have trouble explaining why exactly I really didn't like this book.

Sorry guys But maybe y'all will enjoy it more than me and I'm just the weird one here.

The only thing I liked about the story was:

On 2/14/2019 at 11:02 PM, Jace21 said:

It depends what you mean by limit I guess.

Oathbringer Spoilers

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But when Dalinar opens the perpendicularity Nightblood is described as having been "slaked" by the Stormlight, at least for the time being. If his capacity to absorb was infinite, he could have absorbed the whole perpendicularity.

I also think there is a hard limit to how much he can absorb due to his size, same as a metalmind, and I doubt it's the size of a shard. Thats speculative though.

 

I don't think we can call that as evidence as a limit to his capacity. I would say that is more indicative of the rate of absorption. That being said, the longer Nightblood is out, the more investiture is drains, possibly exponentially, so it may have been possible if he was just left out longer. 

On 2/11/2019 at 0:09 PM, Jace21 said:

Have you read OB? There definitely seem to be limits to how much NB can absorb.

Really? I think I might missed something; what part are you referring to that suggests a limit?

18 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

Yes, I got so excited when I read that sentence and realized it referred to Jason Write. He's likely the best human cytonic who's ever lived, he more than deserves to have the part of his brain named after him. Good job picking up on it @shadowwisp! 

Half the praise goes to you as well, you picked it up as well, and before me I think too! 

OMG, I just realized that:

Skyward + Defending Elysium spoilers:

 I don't know about you guys, but I absolutely loved this book. For me, it outshines all his other non-cosmere books by far. 

And of all of his short stories, Defending Elysium was my favorite. So I am absolutely thrilled to find out that Defending Elysium was the prequel to Skyward (although I didn't put the two together until I came to the forums).  

So uhhhhh, does anyone know when Skyward 2 will be out? I believe he already submitted the final draft to his publisher correct?

On 8/1/2018 at 2:34 PM, Calderis said:

Technically by the WoBs you're referring to, Vasher originated for this story. 

I'm unaware of one that names Nightblood in that.

I'm not really adding much to this discussion (although I find it highly interesting as a lurker) but here is a WoB that states that Nightblood also originated for this story.

Quote

Why did you put Nightblood in The Stormlight Archive?

Brandon Sanderson:

"Nightblood and Vasher were in the original version of the Way of Kings before I wrote Warbreaker. Warbreaker in a way was actually introducing those two characters I'd already created."

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/222-words-of-radiance-houston-signing/#e5615

10 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

I disagree. As has been demonstrated multiple times throughout the books, the wording of Commands are pretty straight-forward. She'd be saying something pretty similar to "forget this ever happened," and in her situation, I would imagine that the girl very much wanted to forget what happened. There's Intent taken care of too.

---

Also, given that her self-awakening only took "part of a breath," I am not sure it is as complex as you think it is.

Meh, guess we will have to agree to disagree then.

Yes, the words of the Commands are simple but the mental visualization has always been the more difficult part of Awakening. You can't just stick 1000 breaths into a steel sword, say "destroy evil" and expect to get Nightblood.

And as I mentioned before, the wording Vasher uses strongly suggests that he is doing the action of removing memories. That is one of my core pillars for my theory. I would also argue that taking part of a Breath makes it more complicated not less. Example: they managed to create lifeless with 50 breaths first before learning how to only use 1.

And here is a WoB that is related to Self-Awakening and using Breath that does not belong to you.

Quote

Lindel (paraphrased)

There's that trick with Feruchemy that lets you make metalminds that others can tap. Could you do something similar with Self-Awakening?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Oh yeah, there are all sorts of tricks that you can do. You could use other peoples Breaths, make it seem like you don't have any Breath-

Lindel (paraphrased)

Awaken an object so that others could access its Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Lol sorry I couldn't help myself from talking. But in the end, I think we just have to agree to disagree and just wait patiently for the next Warbreaker book.

12 hours ago, Yata said:

Nothing suggest that Vasher was activelly involved.

Now I can't be' sure of the english wording. But Vasher said to the girl, "I will tell you some words, memorize  and feel those...then repeat".

Collaborative Awakening is not something we have records for and in that specific instance there is not an Exchange of Investiture/Breath between them...so a magic interaction is very unlikely

 

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

What he says in the English version heavily implies the intent had to come from her. 

"and mean them"

idk guys, I still find it hard to accept that a 5-8 year old girl with one Breath in psychological shock was able to accomplish an Advanced Command Awakening all by herself. Not to mention that it is likely that this was her first Awakening. For context, Vivennia had to try several times for her first Awakening and she is not only older, but had hundreds of Breaths and the royal bloodline, both which makes Awakening easier.

Also since we are discussing the English language and implications, there is this:

Quote

"I can’t forget.”  

“I can make you,” Vasher said.  “I know the Commands.”            

Denth froze.            

“I promise,” Vasher said.  “I will take it all from you, if you wish.”

This seems to heavily imply that Vasher is the one performing an action to remove memories. He could have easily said "I can teach you the commands to forget" or something similar, instead he said "I can make you" and "I will take it all from you".

I'm still leaning towards a Collaborative Awakening style. We haven't seen it before, but there is a lot of Awakening that we haven't seen (command breaking, nonverbal awakening, creating Type IV biochramtic entities, etc). We have even seen stuff that shouldn't be possible based on what we know of Awakening.

Oathbringer:

On 5/19/2018 at 2:51 AM, Yata said:

@Master Knapper the Memory thing is unofficial called Self Awakening and can't be' used on others.

You can change with It your own Memories not the others' ones.

Vasher had to tell the Command to the girl and She used on herself.

It might require two people to perform because Vasher had to be involved in the process somehow.

All the girl said were the words, she is still missing the Intent/mental visualization required for Awakening. I doubt the girl could have removed her own memories so precisely when she didn't even know what the words were going to do.

I think Vasher provided Intent and somehow specifically removed her memories.

On 5/17/2018 at 7:05 PM, Kidpen said:

Lifeless are built with that specific reason in mind. Other things only change after pulling all the Breaths out.

Oathbringer:

Interesting thing to note is that Azure's sword is normal sized (someone correct me if I am wrong). Nightblood is larger than normal because it was designed for a Returned. So does this mean Azure's sword was not designed for a Returned? This might argue against Yesteel creating it for himself.

Most traditional spiders spin webs to catch flying insects. Now correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think there are very many flying insects in Roshar. The frequent Highstorms and Weepings would have a high threshold for species developing flight and thus also making it less likely for convergent evolution to make a spider like organism that makes webs.

On 4/12/2018 at 11:12 PM, Naurock said:

Also something to think about is Dalinar caught Szeth swinging once. Shardbearers tend to be kinda lazy with their swings because it easily cuts everything. He may not have swung as hard as he could.

That's partially because Shardblades are lighter than regular steel. Nightblood is heavier than regular steel and bigger than a regular sword (he was made for Returned), so it's still surprising that an aluminum sheath was able to block it so easily.

So theoretically, awakening a cloth in a shape of a human would take less Breath than awakening a cloth in the shape of a dog which would take less Breath than a square piece of cloth right?

Oathbringer Spoilers:

Thoughts?

Just adding a tidbit to the discussion since I haven't seen it brought up. 

Ignoring cost/availability, using an Atium spike will outperform any other spike in terms of power and efficiency.

So using the Inquisitor method in a tank of blood (probably doesn't have to be human) performed with only Atium Spikes would give the theoretical maximum in efficiency. Although we are probably talking about a very small difference.  

Edit, found the WoB:

Quote

Their experiments (very expensive ones) are what determined that atium (which they thought was just one of the sixteen metals) granted the Allomantic Temporal powers. What they didn't realize is that atium (used correctly) could steal ANY of the powers. Think of it as a wild card. With the right knowledge, you could use it to mimic any other spike. It works far better than other spikes as well.

10 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Where did we learn that Kelsier isn't on Scadrial in Era 2?

We never did. Although I guess one could speculate based on the comment that Harmony hasn't spoken to Kelsier for a while.

Somewhat relevant WoB:

Quote

Cadmium (paraphrased)

We've seen someone with a Hemalurgic spike communicate or under the control of Ruin or Harmony... Can other Shards communicate or control those individuals?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Good Question. Yes...  They can certainly communicate...

Cadmium (paraphrased)

To what extent?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not to the extent that Ruin did. The others could communicate but it'd be vague or faint, not as direct as Ruin was. He connects to us, well, them through the little bit of Preservation that he had or could touch. Because the spike pierces the soul.

Cadmium (paraphrased)

What about on other planets than Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It'd work the same way. but again probably vaguer or fainter. Might go unnoticed.

Maybe Kelsier is far enough away that Harmony can't talk to him?

Maybe it has to do with "intent". He can't have the intent to hurt himself or someone else. Otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to trip and fall, scraping himself and idk how you could make rule preventing that.

On 3/23/2018 at 10:43 PM, Lepth said:

That makes sense but if burning preservation let’s you change your soul then does burning ruin do something similar?

Remember that Ruin's power is not Allomancy but Hemalurgy. Atium is the most versatile Hemalurgic metal, it can steal any attribute. An Atium spike would be able to change your soul as well.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if an Atium spike had less power decay outside the body as well.

Quote

Questioner:
Is Marsh happy?

Brandon Sanderson:
Marsh is Marsh’s version of happy.

Questioner:
I’m just worried about him.

Brandon Sanderson:
…He has never been a happy person. But he’s in a better place now than he’s been in other times of his life.

There’s a part of Marsh that really likes skulking around and being an incarnation of Death in peoples’ minds. He’s not really one, but you know what I mean? There’s a part of him, the part that’s related to his brother, that really digs that, even if he would never admit it.

9 minutes ago, Ookla the maladroit said:

 He is so powerfully influenced by Odium. 

What makes you say that?

1 hour ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

 If it is described as being massive, or comparable to a Shardblade in size, then that makes sense.

Well, if it's anything like Nightblood, it might deceptively heavy. Like the opposite of Sprenblades. 

On a side note, anyone have any ideas on why she wrapped cloth around her arm before using her blade? Was she using an awakened cloth to strength her arm or was she using the cloth to hide the corruption creeping up her arm?   

36 minutes ago, Darvys said:

There's something else worth noting, at some point he tells Nightblood that he reminds him of another voice he used to hear in his head when he was younger,

Which is quite awful if you think about it. As far as we know, every Radiant spren can manifest itself to others (correct me if I am wrong). If you are trying to convince everyone that the Radiants are back, showing off your talking Radiant spren would be a solid idea.

Which leads me to speculate two possibilities considering that he no longer hears a voice:
1. Szeth revealed the spren, and then Elders freaked out and permanently killed it via Honorblade. And then convinced Szeth that the spren isn't what he thought it was and that he is crazy, a lair, heretic, etc.  That means the hidden spren is a new spren. It's hiding because its worried what happened to its predecessor or just scared of Nightblood.

2. Szeth revealed the spren, and then Elders freaked out and then convinced Szeth that the spren isn't what he thought it was and that he is crazy, a lair, heretic, etc. Szeth, fully convinced, intentionally or unintentionally,  bond-killed the spren. That means the hidden spren is his old spren coming back to life. Maybe it's still healing which why it hasn't shown itself yet, similar to Pattern.

Either way, that leaves Szeth pissed now he knows the truth.