FollowYourMuse

I agree with much of the opinions expressed, though not specifically the reasons. The merch, and events are fan driven, and I only wish more of my favorite Authors had similar focus on their fans. 

The cross language bleed over did not bother me as much. It is a good example of how language, ideas and culture are influenced and appropriated by other cultures, one more part of what makes his worldbuilding feel realistic.  
 

I have been thinking about the possible 
“All but your husband’s bastard bear a terrible burden, including predispositions inherited from you."

Assuming the Bastard is Helaran,  all of the others show signs of mental health illness.  
But is that the result of being the child of a Cognitive Shadow? or is that more related to the Oathpact Bond and what Ishar has been doing? 

What do we know of children of Cognitive Shadows?

On Nalthis the descendents of Returned Vo are able to change their appearance, mostly the  Royal Locks" the hair changing color based on emotion.

Quote

Questioner

In Warbreaker, the royal family's hair can change colors based on their emotions. Why is it only natural colors? Is there a reason for that?

Brandon Sanderson

It's only natural colors, they could go further than natural colors. Basically, their perception is what's influencing that. They can actually change more than just the color of their hair, but as in a lot of things in the cosmere, the way you view how your abilities work shapes the actual abilities.

ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Vasher Explains Some Things, but Leaves Some Things Hidden

Can Vivenna change her appearance more? She can indeed. She could actually stoke that fragment of a divine Breath inside of her and start glowing like a Returned. She can't change her physical features to look like someone else, but she can change her age, her height (within reason), and her body shape (to an extent). It takes practice.

And yes, the scraggly miscreant is how Vasher sees himself. Not noble and Returned, which is part of how he suppresses his divine Breath.

Events in the second book may change that.

Warbreaker Annotations (Aug. 1, 2011)

From this can we assume that some of Shallan's ability to appear or mimic others is more than just lightweaving?

Now that she is stuck in the CR will she learn the ability to change her hair and appearance on purpose without stormlight?  

 

1 hour ago, MagicMaggot said:

Cultivation was heavily invested in Roshar, though, and cutting all ties and rushing off does seem like it could have a high cost for her. Preservation made it sound like a pretty extreme measure in Secret History: “We… grow attached easily, and it takes one who is particularly dedicated to leave.”. I guess we'll have to wait and see on that, but that's why I don't think we have all the information required to judge her damages here. It also makes a big difference if this is actually part of a long-term strategy, with her intending to return someday, or if this was an emergency exit just to survive. If she abandoned her ressources and creatures here without a plan that might even clash with her power's Intent. 

And I get that the reactions to Taravangian were all from his perspective, and she could have been fooling him (and us) all along, but taken on face value it did seem like everything she was working for fell down around her. Taravangian was ostensibly meant to be an improvement to Rayse, and he wasn't. Dalinar was ostensibly groomed to take up Honor, and he threw that away. And even if her grasp of the future is better than most shards', she isn't there to guide it in the foreseeable future. The time-dilation is certainly a boon, but if she hasn't prepared anything off-world, she won't really be in a position to make much use of it. 

It would really help, if we had more of an understanding of her personal goals. I'd say considering she didn't want conflict with Odium and didn't even necessarily want to stop the wars on Roshar, it's quite plausible that she genuinely wanted the bearer of Odium to just stop with his plans of conquest, like she told Taravangian. So if that was part of it, she failed. Freedom from Roshar might be a positive, but creating Retribution was hardly the easiest way to get it, considering that Dalinar had that power and wasn't above being manipulated. And "not losing her spren" is certainly better than the alternative, but far from a win. Any plausible result except Retribution's emergence would have left her spren unharmed. Much of the harm she narrowly averted was only a possibility because of her meddling. 

So with what I can see in the short-term, she seems like a clear loser to me. There will hopefully be long-term plans that play out better, we'll likely get a better understanding what she actually wants to accomplish, and she still has some powerful cards on the board, but right now we can only speculate on that. 

She fled Roshar, but do we know if she fled the system?  
She may have set up a hiding place or bolt hole on one of the other planets or moons in the same system. 

On 12/13/2024 at 1:33 AM, Isilel said:

Given that Shinovar is half a continent away over enemy territory, I really don't see any other way how these two women could have come into contact than Jasnah learning to Elsecall over distance in the physical realm, as El's conversation with TOdium proved her order can do. It also seems that Szeth's wife might be another Elsecaller.

It could be possible to cross land, and for trading across the mountains between Urithiru and Azir, from there it would be mountainous terrain probably mostly un-populated into Shinovar. 

What we do not know is if Szeth and his future wife and her family stayed in Shinovar or traveled overland to Azir or Urithiru. Perhaps with Nightblood he can Elsecall and they travel via Shadesmar.  
We know one task he will undertake will be to find the other group of skybreakers. 

5 minutes ago, wormotif said:

I'm pretty sure any Radiant can run on Warlight. Radiants can run on Towerlight just fine, so we know non-Stormlight can work. And we actually see Venli using Warlight to fuel her Willshaper powers in the end of WaT:
 

While Venli is a Singer, there's no particular indication to my knowledge that that should make a difference. She's got a perfectly normal Nahel bond with a lightspren.

And, story-wise, Retribution has a bunch of loyal Skybreakers & Dustbringers that he might as well hang onto given that he can't absorb their spren. He's also got a lot of human kingdoms that may continue to produce Radiants as well (a PoV new Radiant from a Retribution-ruled human kingdom would be a really interesting way to explore the new Roshar under Retribution in the second half!). If these have no access to their surges, they're not that useful, so presumably they'll be able to use warlight.

The problem is it is specifically gifted from Retribution, I doubt that he will be gifting it to those that do not worship or agree to his rule. 

 

23 minutes ago, boonboon said:

I can see where you're coming from, but is it really the best way BS could think of to show their love and independence? Through meaningless proclamations of love, physical attraction and complete absence of any conflict.

Surely he's more capable than that.

He is more capable, but we also have two people that avoid personal confrontations, and conflict, until they hit a breaking point, and then solve it with drastic actions. 
I can see where if there was more of a focus on them in a book it could lead to some more character growth, and interesting how they both need to deal with their passive reaction to confronting those that they love. 
But SA is not a romantasy, and in real life there actually are couples that can go through life happily as a couple without conflict. 

Lopen declares himself King of the Herdazian's in exile.
Rushu leads the spren training program. 
Lirin works with others Kaladan helped to open up the Stormblessed Mental Health clinic, next to the hospital medical wing he founds and runs.

Rock's Bridge 4 Stew becomes a favorite meal second only to Chouta. 
Lift figures out how to get into the Spiritual Realm without Dalinar and bothers (spy's on)  Syl, Kaladin, and the Heralds. 
Notum petitions the Emperor for full citizen rights for Spren that move to Azir.






 

7 hours ago, Fallen_Ash said:

My one complaint, however (other than the Ghostblood stuff), is that I have never been invested in Adolin and Shallan as a couple. I was trying to figure out why, and at first I thought it was because they're not passionate about each other, but I don't think that's it. What they lack is INTIMACY. They basically live parallel lives and come together once in a while to say "I love you" and have sex. Even when they are on the same mission, like in RoW, they hardly interact. Instead of helping Adolin with the trial, Shallan is focused on Ghostblood business. It's great that they say they support each other no matter what, but I rarely feel like it's shown. When we got the first POV of Adolin in Azir, I was shocked he hadn't even thought to himself "Maybe I should try to find Shallan and say goodbye!" Once in a while they'll stop to think "I sure love my spouse," but if they weren't married very little would actually change. Compare them to Kaladin and Syl, who are shown having pretty deep discussions and growing alongside each other. Adolin and Shallan don't really go through things together, which I find weird. Also weird was how much time was given in the book to talking about Shallan rejecting Kaladin (which she didn't do because he never even made a move or presented himself as an option). At this point, the proper amount of attention that should be given to that whole plot point is none. It's weird to have a little speech from Kaladin about how they wouldn't have worked, and it's weird to have Shallan thinking about Kaladin while watching her wedding. Maybe it's Brandon's clumsy way of trying to crush Shalladin once and for all, but it feels very out of place and honestly does the opposite. I know "show not tell" is trite, but this relationship needed more showing. Romance is never Brandon's strong suit, but compared to Vin and Elend, Dalinar and Navani, and even Siri and Susebron and Kaladin and Syl, this relationship feels incredibly underdeveloped. 

Welcome, and great commentary, 
To me the one thing I think makes Adolin and Shallon's relationship work is their independence. These are 2 people who thought they would be married to someone because of politics or family advantage, they do not have the culture of love and romance. Dalinar and Navani can afford to find love at this point in their lives, they had already done the proper marriage for politics.
I find their independence and support for each other amazing, just the fact that they fell in love at all is more than either might have hoped for. 

On 12/9/2024 at 2:44 PM, who_slew_aicirtap said:

More of a meta question, but who do we think he's referencing in this WOB?

On 12/9/2024 at 2:47 PM, robardin said:

I agree with another poster that he probably "cancelled" Taravangian actually being able to destroy his family and Adrotagia along with Kharbranth, and him putting them into a vision bubble in the Spiritual Realm as living humans in the semi-epilogue represents that "character's takeback" from the original plotline.

I had not thought of Taravangian's ploy with Karbranth and the Spiritual Realm, that could be it. 
My initial thought was Dalinar, and how it all played out, and that is why we now have a weird spren Blackthorn dude for the back half, instead of Dalinar himself as the Blackthorne. 
 

8 hours ago, Cocoa said:

14. Why would the Heralds ever return to Roshar? The moment they give up the oathpact again, couldnt Retribution just suck up all the spren?

21. Can Retribution not just destroy the Heralds the moment they leave their oathpact, as he has authority over all of Honor? Just like Odium could have destroyed the Fused or remade an Unmade?

The oathpact does not end when they need to return. So as long as they do not break their oath or the Oathpact the spren are protected.
Sure he could destroy them, but it would be difficult for him to directly oppose an oath with Honor, as that is the Power/Shard, not the vessel.

21 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Sort of. It still looks to me like she had to execute plan B or C. But she did plan for the eventuality and got an acceptable outcome.

I guess she could have gotten a better outcome without Hoid interfering. She is not going to be pleased with him.

I agree this is plan B, C maybe D?  She had hoped to convince T-Odium to see he did not have to rule it all. I think she underestimated his desire to be the one to Rule it all, like many but Dalinar who was able to see that he pretended, and unlike Dalinar had not changed. 
So when T-Odium let her know he did not agree with her,  and then Dalinar threw her for a loop too, so she had to flee. 

But I do think she had planned it as a possible outcome,.


 

34 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

It’s really unclear to me if Lift was special, or if cultivation had many agents like her. 
 

We see people with weird veins attack Karbradth, so were those Lifelight users? 
 

Are there more agents with weird veins? Did they all get used in the Karbrandth attack, or are there still more all around the story? 
 

Heck. We also know that it’s hard for a shard to leave a planet they have invested in. Maybe killing all her agents made it easier for her to leave? 

Lift is long term plan, she will still have her surges no matter what happens to stormlight. 
The people with weird veins that attacked Karbradth are Women from Babatharnam 

 

Quote

Notable race: the Babath (People of Babatharnam)
1) Common features: [women] patterns of veins beneath the skin [WoK Ch. 46] (result of Aimian hybrids

 

5 hours ago, Inevitability said:

It also breaks the writer’s rule of: Show, Don’t Tell!

Yes I know, and I get why, it is just the need info - go have visions was feeling really repetitive. 

57 minutes ago, Kardenal_13 said:

The parts of Honor that split off before he fuses with Odium to make Retribution are probably going to be doing the lions share of the observing, I'd imagine while observing the protagonists.

I have to look at the timeline, but my thought were that those parts went to Kaladin/Syl /The heralds with the new Oathpact. 

2 hours ago, neosporin said:

I'm pretty sure it's because Cultivation just telling Dalinar would undermine the entire purpose of the series. It's the journey, not the destination, that makes you the man you are. This was Dalinar's journey. 

I get that, it just was repetitive, and I found many of the SR scenes to be, not boring,  but not engaging, like I did not care enough. 

22 hours ago, Inevitability said:

To hand him the answers without the context would not provide him with growth. Dalinar needed to experience those moments to get the understanding of not only Tanavast but also his own mistakes. It was that growth which enabled him to ascend to Honor

More controlled visions, another pruning of memories moment where the info is provided, there are all kinds of ways she could have passed on the information, without once again, doing a " I know a secret but I'm not telling" 
 

22 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

This is my one major complaint with this book. If cultivation thought that Dalinar needed to learn all this.... Why not just tell him????

This is one of the major drawbacks in the series in general, and in Brandon's writing, he relies on lack of communication and shared information too often. Early on like with Jasnah, Shallon or Kaladin not talking about what they could do, and various factions is one thing.  
The stormfather knew the history, - No don't go but I won't tell you. 
Cultivation knew, but won't say, if he really needed to know why take the risk, just show him the visions. 

The entire we need to go to the SR felt contrived, most of it felt pointless. 
I hated the idea of the child champion, and I think I hate the oh we will just age him up plot cheat even more. 
 

2 hours ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said:

it ain't gonna be Whelan 

hopefully they can find someone who can match the art style cause it's iconic to Stormlight

I hope so too.
If not, I will need them to release all the others in the same style. 
I hate when my series books do not match on the shelf.

On 12/3/2024 at 9:41 PM, Wit Beyond Measure said:

Jasnah might know that Szeth is on his Skybreaker mission and that Kal is accompanying him to help with his sanity and help Ishar, but his real mission is chasing the Wind, as the Wind has told him. Does Jasnah know about that mission, their mission to chase and find the Wind and be her champions? Because that is the mission referenced in TKoWaT, in my opinion. That is, after all, the focus of the epigraphs.

 

Good point!  I had not thought of that. 

Interesting theory, ut I just do not see either as getting that kind of redemption and change of personality. Jasnah is an obvious choice. But she is not unaware of Kaladins mission. 

Some who could write it in the future I think it could be Venli while not at this point a philosopher, is a scholar and historian having memorized the oral history songs. Personally I do not think it needs to be someone that ancient, as Wit and the author point out it is more about Kaladin actually listening. I can see a Listener\Singer having heard the rhythms of the Wind as a child. Even if it had no voice.

If we are to read it as it needs to be ancient history having heard the wind, the author could be one of the sleepless. We know one calls himself a philosopher. I have trouble with the quote on being a child though,are they ever children? but fits other knowledge and timelines. 

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I will be almost 40 years old when the next stormlight book comes out. 

I am old enough to worry I will not be around for the next 5. 

Gavilar was not the only one, I assume it was because of his actions in uniting Alethkar.

Quote

coltonx9

How many people, about, were sent visions by the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

The Stormfather? It was less than ten. Fewer than ten.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

8 hours ago, dvoraen said:

Quote

"Flame and char. Skin so terrible. Eyes like pits of blackness."

A quote from the Iviad probably needs no reference notation, but this comes from line 482, should I need to locate it quickly.

This excerpt from Jasnah's research into the Voidbringers is one of the major problems I have with descriptions of them. Every known Regal and Fused, and even individuals being consumed by some of the Unmade, have had red eyes, a sign of corrupted Investiture at play. Where, then, does this detail about eyes like pits of blackness originate? If the coloring is accurate, the most educated guess that we can currently make is that this is a sign of "pure" Odium Investiture at play.

I do not remember the exact quote, but Navani when she confronts Moash I think talks of his dead eyes, 

10 hours ago, the_archduke said:

Except we are in book 5 of 10.  None of that is going to happen.  The good guys can't win half way through the story.

While I agree in principle, I do not see it being quite that straight forward, with a gap in when the next books come out, there will need to be some kind of resolution, that makes this first 5 books have some sense of completion, though with enough dangling threads and questions for the next part of the series. 
I do not think either "side" is going to win. I do think the theme of walking away, stepping down is going to be part of it. 
Much like the Original Listeners, abandoned their "gods"  and walked away. 

9 hours ago, Calten_Gnomercy said:

Is it possible that Ishar was compromised years ago by whatever Unmade were hanging around Shinovar at the time?

 

I dont think we know what powers those Unmade have.

I can see a scenario where Ishar is compromised and is forced to push Szeth into action as Truthless. Setting off all of the turmoil he brought.

Now he’s back, and Ishar is talking about how he’s sapping the pain and darkness from the other Heralds. Providing them sort of lucidity. We’d expect it to make things tough on Ishar, but what if the Unmade that has him is powered on that darkness making Ishar and the Unmade more powerful?

I was super confused when Lift was acting as Navani. The careless shift made me laugh.

 

 

 

I think this is possible, my guess is it is Dai-gonarthis, Ishar's words of "taking their pain" fits with this death Rattle. 
The question I have is for how long has be been under the influence of an unmade, and how much of the Heralds actions for 4000 years on Roshar has been Odiums doing?
 

Quote

"Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!"–Tanatesach 1173, 28 seconds pre-death. A darkeyed female street juggler. Note similarity to sample 1172-89 
The Way Of Kings 

 

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

On 11/25/2024 at 5:59 AM, Ewery1 said:

Oh this is interesting… The Listeners/Singers aren’t the children of Honor & Cultivation, they’d be the children of Adonalsium, right? Who could it be other than the True Spren?

By that logic everybody is a child of Adonalsium

In a way yes, everything is of Adonalsium but not directly. The newer people, were created by the shards, pieces of Adonalism, It seems that unlike Scadrial or other shardic worlds where they re-created people in the likeness of the original human Yolen people, Cultivation and Honor, took over a world already populated by Original inhabitants, and splinters of Adonalism. 

There were Spren of Adonalism, and the native Rosharon flora, fauna, and Spren including the Singers  that are the "children" of Adonalism. I assume the "old Magic" Wind, Stone and Night are possibly also (Splinters?) of Adonalism. 
Later there were Spren of Honor, which he later passed that duty to the Stormfather who is the Father of Syl.  So a piece, of a piece of divinity, that is a part (shard) of the original Adonalism.  
The Sibling is the child of Honor and Cultivation, so a combination of 2 intents, now influenced by 3. 
The Original Spren and People of Adonalism would not have had the same single intent investiture, so would be child of Adonalism. 

This just reminded me that I have had thought of making a "genealogy" chart at some point, though I tend to think it is more like genetic inheritance than family lines.