sespe14

7 hours ago, Denisimo said:

What about Wax? He's gotta get more hemlurigc spikes at one point.

I was under the impression that he was against wearing spikes. Even ones as small as the earrings that harmony uses to communicate.

Also, didnt he just want to stop with the action? I dont really remember it that well since ive read TLM some time ago

Does giving a person one of the blessings do anything special or does it work like it does with kandra? Does it make like a kind of koloss or just enhances what it does for kandra? Does it work? Do they give allomantic/ferruchemical abilities instead?

Perhaps there are some WoBs i missed or some other information i forgot.

Anyways here Is what the coppermind says about the blessings.

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Blessing of Awareness
    A pair of tin spikes that grant a kandra increased senses, similar to Allomantically burning tin.

Blessing of Potency
    A pair of iron spikes that give a kandra more strength, like that of an Allomancer burning pewter. It is not exactly the same effect, however; it does not grant the limitless energy received from burning pewter.

Blessing of Presence
    A pair of copper spikes that grant increased mental capability. This capability includes the ability to focus despite physical discomfort or distraction, exceptionally sharp memory, resistance to madness, and the inability to lapse into unconsciousness due to shock. This Blessing also counters at least some of the mental weakness that is caused by Hemalurgy; kandra with this Blessing are much less vulnerable to being controlled by Ruin than others.

Blessing of Stability
    A pair of zinc spikes that endows its receiver with emotional fortitude, rendering them much more resistant to control by emotional Allomancy. This Blessing was rarely used.

Also, are the blessing spikes filled with allomancy/ferruchemy? It could be a possibility that instead of giving them the powers it just enhances some things and gives them awareness

We know that, aside of the four types of spikes/blessings given to mistwraiths to give them conscience and turning them into kandra, there Is a type of spike that would let them use allomancy and maybe there Is one that lets them use feruchemy.

I wonder how this would work. Does the spike transfer when they change bodies or are they locked in the same body if they want to keep their power?

It Is probably the first one though who knows.

If it Is the first one then it would allow for a very overpowered being since we know they can gain allomancy through lerasium and feruchemy through some unknown way regarding atium, lerasium and harmonium

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Yoitsthew
Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!
 
Brandon Sanderson
You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.
 
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14146

So a fullborn kandra will probably be one of the most dangerous and invested things in Scadrial

Doesnt matter if its through spikes, natural means, or unsealed metalminds

So from what i understood from all of this, Is that it might be possible under specific circumstances and that kandra probably cant recreate DNA. So if they were to have a child it would be theirs, not from the body they were hosting.

As to how this child might be, i'm guessing it cannot change bodies, like it Is stuck with its human forma, although it could possibly slightly rearrange their bodies for some specific things, like swapping a broken bone for a new healthy one or becoming taller by getting larger bones, though i dont think it can recreate anything, so whatever it does it would hurt itself in doing so by stretching organs and skin. Or thats what i think would happen where one to exist

Alright, i had forgotten most of that information and it Is quite important for the subject.

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39 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Complication two is that by my understanding there are two distinct parts to the Law of Hemalurgic Decay. The first is that when harvesting a power from a human donor, there is a loss of strength during the process. This is the case even when driving the spike directly through the donor into the recipient. The second is that if a spike is left outside of a human body, chunk of meat, or jar of blood (as was confirmed during the Final Empire), the power will decay up to a minimum threshold. I suspect that WoB about wrapping a spike in Aluminum is talking the secod category.

There are some ways to preserve them for some time, as you said, and the process i imagine would probably be fast: they take your powers, transport them somewhere with people who maybe trained with unsealed metalminds and give it to them.

Also, i remember somewhere in era 2 it was said that you can take the power and leave the person alive, this could mean not only taking powers from people about to die, but also from people who doesnt want them or criminals or deserters at some war. Idk i'm just stating possibilities

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39 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

It's also worth noting that proportionally there are far fewer Feruchemists than there are Allomancers. The Feruchemists had just been culled by the Steel Inquisitors while the Mists had raised the Allomantic potential of many of the Skaa survivors. Expect to see a unbalanced army for a long time. If I remember right there were only like 2 or 3 known Steelrunners during Wax's time. 

I think there's a reason that Set didn't just harvest powers from the populace and turned to Eugenics and nonlethal spiking to develop powers. Just waiting for people to normally be born, identifying them, and successfully harvesting their power is costly and time consuming - probably doubly so for Gnat Mistings with the coveted A-Duralumin. It's nice to dream about this kind of army, but I don't think it's currently plausible for Scadrial. Amassing this power could take centuries without something to accelerate the process - and Scadrian's version of immortality has major drawbacks.

I should have probably specified, but i didnt mean we would get this on era 3 (although we could get a little bit). I was looking more at the possible ciberpunk era and the space opera era. Which by then i'm guessing it will be more than possible with so many advancements, though who knows. It Is but a theory.

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39 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

There's several complications with this that I will lay out.

First issue that as of Era 2 there is an limit to the number of spikes that someone gain gain powers from. Under the current management with Harmony, Ruin is subservient to Preservation. This is talked about in TLM Arcanum - during the days before the Catacendre Ruin was exerting significant force on the souls of men, allowing far greater warping and powers than the human soul was ever meant to withstand. While we don't know the upper limit, as of Era 2 there is a limit to the number of power granting spikes - put in more and they simply don't gain more powers. Steel Inquisitors cannot currently be made with known methods.

(...)

Issue three is the strain of having that many spikes is hard. It's taxing to have the soul warped to that degree - Marsh reported that the spikes throbbed and the Inquisitors needed significantly more rest and sleep than normal humans. To get all 32 powers in a single individual, that's probably around 15-16 spikes if the recipient started as a Mistborn or Full Feruchemist, but more likely would take 30-32 spikes which is far above Marsh's 22. We can cut that down if we add in Malwish Medallions, but those generally grant only 2-3 powers at a time. If we're counting the Bands as a manufacturable option, then the exercise is moot. Sure, being ancient doesn't help, but Marsh was not doing too hot last time we saw him, especially when not puppeted by Ruin, and it's canon that Marsh's will power is extraordinary (at least it was during HoA).

So, we know there indeed Is an upper limit to how many hemalurgic spikes a person can use, both in the sense that it stops giving you abilities and it takes a great toll that humans from current eras cannot withstand.

So lets say that we will try to keep the spikes on a single person to a minimum, so maybe two spikes to allow compounding and one more to complement the others (like duralumin allomancy). We could also assume access to unsealed metalminds will grow as the eras pass. Allowing for further power.

We also know that lerasium and atium can be created from harmonium, allowing for mistborns to be created without the use of hemalurgy. And there Is one WoB that suggests that something similar could be done to create full feruchemists

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Yoitsthew
Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!
 
Brandon Sanderson
You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.
 
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14146

Maybe through burning harmonium (although something would have to be done to avoid exploding yourself)

Anyways, with advancements, access to these god metals could become easier and perhaps the opportunity to create fullborns without hemalurgy would rise

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39 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Also, welcome to the Shard sespe14

Thx!

22 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

If I were to try this, I would use mostly compounding twinborn because of the hemaluric compounding retcon

It would also be the easiest and cheapest way that allows for multiple powerful individuals with less recourses. Or thats what i think at the very least.

Also, i wasnt aware there was a retcon on how hemalurgic compounding works, i'll have to check on that later

Alright, we know that you can gain allomantic and feruchemical powers through hemalurgy, admittedly some of the power Is lost, although there might be a way to prevent this:

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swieczq
Had a hemalurgic spike been encased in aluminium, would it still decay?
 
Brandon Sanderson
Nobody has tried that! (It might work.)
 
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/121/#e5060

This leaves you open to being manipulated by shards though, and the more spikes you have, the harder it Is to resist. We can see this with Marsh and the inquisitors being controlled by Ruin in era 1. We also know that aluminium helmets can help to avoid this mind control

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Questioner
The Lord Ruler used a lot of metal for shielding and stuff. But if he had had an aluminum helmet himself, would it have protected him from Ruin's influence at all, or would the spikes overcome that?
 
Brandon Sanderson
Aluminum helmet would help in that situation. Aluminum could very well have been something useful for resisting, yeah.
 
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/472/#e14926

Anyways, thanks to this, we know there Is a way to have all the allomantic and feruchemical powers with little backlash, since aluminium will become so common and cheap, it would be easy to avoid this, or at least to prevent a shard from fully taking control of yourself, although there are more methods to avoid this mind control.

Ok, i will give two things that could happen with all this in lunes

First: an evil organization (like the Set) could start mass killing mistings and ferrings with spikes to get the power for themselves creating armies of fullborns, mistborns, full feruchemists, twinborns (with or without compounding), mistings and ferrings.

Second: there will be like a donor (voluntary or not) system so that when you are close to die someone spikes you to preserve the power and give it to others and make something like a government army full of fullborns, mistborns, full feruchemists, twinborns (with or without compounding), mistings and ferrings.

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21 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

It is also possible to use Atium and Lerasium to obtain Feruchemy somehow (probably by alloying them together in some way and burning the result).

  Hide contents

General Reddit 2020 - Arcanum

Yoitsthew

Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

 

Ohh, i wasnt aware of that WoB, that certainly seems interesting, if he RAFO'd it, it probably means access to atium and lerasium could become easier, or maybe it Is the product of burning harmonium, since allomancy Is from Preservation, hemalurgy from Ruin and feruchemy from both (you would have to put it through some special process to avoid exploding yourself if thats the case). I wonder what he Is going to do with it

21 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Given that Kelsier cannot seem to gain powers from Hemalurgy I find this doubtful.

  Hide contents

Lerasium would have been the easiest way, but it seemed he would have to keep hunting. That gave him hope for himself though. Lerasium wouldn't have worked on him, and Hemalurgy had proven ineffective on what he'd become. It held his soul and body together, but no more.

There had to be another way. He had hope. Ever, he had hope. Hope he could control the metals again. Hope he would be able to soar again. Hope he'd be able to touch the metals he could see in the world all around him.

TLM, pg. 486

I had forgotten hemalurgy didnt affect him, though he did have the steel sight, right? I could be wrong again though if it he did have it then maybe they could find a way to do it, they are lacking in knowledge of how the powers and investiture work.

Like this WoB shows

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swieczq
Had a hemalurgic spike been encased in aluminium, would it still decay?
 
Brandon Sanderson
Nobody has tried that! (It might work.)

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/121/#e5060

Anyways, since i dont know a lot of things bout of cognitive shadows, i'll trust you

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25 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I feel like this is the most likely way we'll see a Fullborn next aside from the Bands- he might already be there, even.

It's worth noting that there are also ways a Hemalurgist can help shield from being controlled, such as aluminum helmets, Copperclouds of a sufficient strength, and possibly electrum Compounding as a last-ditch effort.

I feel like if an aluminium helmet can prevent you from being controlled with hemalurgy becoming widely known and aluminium becoming easy to get and cheap, we are probably get a lot more of compounding, mistborns, twinborns, full feruchemists, and maybe even some fullborns in the next few eras. Probably organizations like the Set would abuse hemalurgy.

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30 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

You don't have to worry about hiding spoilers for Mistborn books in this forum, as that's what it's designed for.

Alright, thanks for letting me know!

(This does contain spoilers for all of mistborn)

I dont think we know of a way to gain feruchemical powers other than being born with them or through use of hemalurgy, so unless Brandon shows how to, i doubt Hoid will ever become a fullborn since he tries to avoid hemalurgic spikes.

Sazed could theoretically give up Harmony though we know of only one person who ever gave up a shard, which was Vin in the well of ascension with Ruin, and she didnt even fully absorb the power at the moment. Sazed has two shards, so he Is very restricted, and i'm not sure how possible it Is for him to give up Harmony.

Marsh could very well become a fullborn through hemalurgy, though that would leave him very susceptible to however holds Harmony.

Kelsier could probably become a fullborn through hemalurgy maybe? I dont know how cognitive shadows interact with different kinds of investiture magics, though i do know that Kelsier has the inquisitor sight in one eye, so he could also become a hemalurgic fullborn like Marsh.

I also remember a theory that said that manipulating connection between yourself and another misting (which i think could be done through compounding a specific metal or perhaps through bondsmith powers) allowed you to use their powers while the connection lasted

If anything, i think we are going to see a hemalurgic fullborn since it will become more widely known as the eras pass or perhaps through unsealed metalminds. Though with so much time passing one could perfectly be born naturally.

I think that in order to avoid what happened in Alashwa/Ashyn, Honor decided not to go all out against Odium.

We know that Tanavast loves Kor and that they had a plan of what they wanted to do, so i think that with the radiants and heralds, they both used some of the power they were allowed. Basically using the same amount of power each one was allowed to use but together. (Perhaps to avoid burning Roshar)

So when Honor sees the Unmade, he decided to invest more the heralds, giving them more power while still not going against the agreement with Rayse since he never have them the maximum amount of power he could have.

Or thats what i can think of this, please correct me if i'm wrong with something