Shardlet

1. Dalinar - Who he was vs. who he has become and how he got there.

2. Hoid - His mysterious history and goals coupled with his persistent presence.  He is also a joy to read

3. Wax - His history personality and ethic.

4. Gaotona - Arguably the main character of Emperor's Soul despite not being the POV character.  He's the character with the more compelling arc.  Shai's story is an artist's journey in creating a masterpiece under extraordinary pressure.  But Gaotona experiences change, growth, and evolution of perspective, character, worth, vitality, and preconceived assumptions. 

5. Lopen - His personality and humor.

6. Vasher - His internal character under his external presentation.

7. Marsh - His journey.

8. Hrathen - His faith crisis and the growth he underwent as he pushed through his crisis.

9. TenSoon - His journey.

10. Steris - The peeling back of a one-dimensional exterior to reveal a complex and intriguing interior.

On 6/5/2019 at 0:44 PM, Kaymyth said:

 

Metallic steel = Fe and C atoms stacked together, but not chemically bonded. The smaller C atoms just slot into spaces between the big Fe atoms and make the structure less prone to sliding apart. This is why iron is more brittle than steel.

 

This is a bit pedantic, but pure iron is actually quite soft and rather malleable.  This should not be confused with cast iron which is quite brittle.  Though identified with the name iron, cast iron actually has far more carbon in it than steel (2-4 wt% in cast iron vs. 0.002-2 wt% in steel). 

On the previous page, Oltux72 suggested that crystal structure may play an important role in whether a metal can be pushed or pulled.  I think this is unlikely.  Most metals exist in one ore more of four crystal lattice types (simple cubic, body centered cubic, face centered cubic, and hexagonal close packed).  There are of course some outliers.  But most are one of those four (most typically BCC, FCC, and HCP).

12 hours ago, Karger said:

If you get a bunch of ore that contains some aluminum and get it extremely hot so that it gets molten and then have several extraordinarily powerful Coinshots push on it from all directions simultaneously will the aluminum go to the outside because it will not be effected by the push?

Back to the OP, no.  This would not work.  Very few metals can be found in nature in metallic form. In all other cases, the metal is in one or more different oxidation states (i.e., non-metallic).  You might be able to do something like this (assuming molten metals can be pushed or pulled) with gold, silver, copper, and a few select others.  But this could never be done with aluminum.  For one thing, aluminum can't be pushed or pulled.  Additionally, it simply does not exist in nature in metallic form.  Conversely, in nature, gold is always in metallic form.  It is commonly locked within other minerals, but the gold itself is always metallic in its natural presentation. 

I agree with RShara that refining this way would not be ultimately beneficial.  However, seems like it would be well worth the investment for discovery of and on-site 'assaying' of gold and silver deposits. 

I think the number of shadows produced would be a function of both the steelrunner's speed, skill, and awareness as well as the skill and experience of the seer.  Vin was able to gack Zane because what she did was unheard of and completely unexpected.  Zane was unable to process and react to the second atium shadow because it was so far out of left field.  With the steelrunner and the seer, it seems certain that the runner could observe the initial movement of seer's counter and then change alter the attack. 

What happens next depends on the seer.  Would they react the way Zane did?  I would expect so unless Vin's trick became known to others or the seer had previously experienced someone using this trick or postulated the potential for such a trick to work.  I doubt that someone learning that trick would ever share it with others except in a relationship of extreme trust because surprise is essential for its success.   

In any case, if the seer was able to react the runner's change and reacted accordingly and if the runner had time to make a second change, then a third shadow would appear.

As to the proposed plot hole, I agree that it is a minor hole which would have been readily fixable given our present knowledge of the story.  The multiple shadows of of atium allomancer against atium allomancer is the result of essentially a feedback loop. Essentially potential stacked upon potential.  In the Vin-Zane fight, as I see it, what should have happened was that as soon as Vin reacted to Zane's attack on her future position, her original shadow should have disappeared and a new shadow appeared corresponding with her new move.  As soon as she moved, there was no longer any potential for her original action.  Thus the shadow should have disappeared.  The effect would have been the same.  Zane's confusion would have steel led to hesitation and Vin would still have triumphed.  

That being said, Brandon may have information that we don't have, ...yet, and it may be perfectly fine as written.  Time will tell.  Regardless, with the cosmere as we have it thus far, it seems a relatively minor hole at worst.

Ha, I was dinking around on Youtube and I came across a video by Wranglerstar (he discusses modern homesteading and various tools and stuff) which has a cheesy bridge 4 animation in it.  Check it out if you want to.

Link Here 

I think it would also be limited by the mass of the kandra itself.  This mass can presumably increase according to how much the kandra consumed; but I suspect that it would take time to metabolize food matter into kandra matter.  In other words, a balloon can increase in size by simply adding more air to the balloon.  But it will eventually reach a point where the balloon cannot contain any additional air without rupturing. 

Totally agree with cometaryorbit.  Her intent is to fix or heal by doing harm to excise a problem.  Like chemo, it's bad bad stuff, but if it kills the cancer...

The inquisitors are the most notable members and the leaders of the Steel Inquisition (in-world, of course).

Their chief weapon is fear; Fear and surprise.  Their TWO chief weapons are fear, surprise, and powerful allomancy.  Their THREE chief weapons are fear, surprise, powerful allomancy, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Lord Ruler.  Their FOUR chief weapons are...Oh we'll come in again!

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

No problem. Just a suggestion on wording. Don't say things along the lines of "I figured that at this point everyone is pretty well versed in that." It sounds really elitist since it implies you're assuming everyone should have a specific set of knowledge while at the same time excluding anyyone who didn't know that. 

 

Moving back to the main topic, since we got heavily sidetracked. 

I did bring up a thought, which I'm not sure you saw, and if you did, I'm going to say it against anyways because it's a good place to get us back on track. Here's what I think. The specific WoBs refer to two parts of Hoid's ability to know where and when to go. The first part is a weak prescience, or instinctual ability. This is a part of his innate investiture, though whether he started with it or not, I don't know. I don't think he did. It helps guide him on where to go, what to do. However, when he tries to apply it to something bigger, like worldhopping, it doesn't work as well, so he sometimes goes to the wrong place at the wrong time, and essentially doesn't find something "novel-worthy". However, after he went to Scadrial and took a bead of lerasium, he used to it store his prescience ability so he could later amplify it and more accurately divine where and when to go next. This is the second part, using feruchemy. 

IDK.  I think you are taking some leaps that are not supported or suggested by the WOBs.  In both, Brandon refers specifically to Hoid knowing where to go.  In the first he says he uses feruchemy to do so. In the second he says Hoid has an innate ability to do so.  This suggests, again, if Brandon did not mistakenly use the word 'innate', that Hoid has innate rather than obtained feruchemy. 

1 minute ago, PantsForSquares said:

That's actually an interesting point, because it brings up a possibility that I hadn't considered before: What if Hoid wasn't after the lerasium bead for the Allomancy?

So, we know that F-Nicrosil can be used to store Investiture-related abilities (like the Metallic Arts, for instance). What if Hoid, post-FA, has been using Nicrominds to store whatever ability he has, and is then using the Allomancy he gained from his lerasium bead to Compound his power? It would greatly amplify his ability to actually get to the right place at the right time, at the potential expense of having a stock of nicrosil.

Whether or not he's been using Allomancy to Compound nicrosil is merely speculation, but this idea has cemented the possibility that Hoid is using F-Nicrosil for his "right place, right time" power.

The epigraph letter in WoK indicates that Hoid is still in possession of the lerasium bead and had not burned it to obtain allomancy.  There seems to be potentially conflicting WOB on the subject though.

First: (from 03/29/2014)

Quote

Herowannabe

The Lord Ruler, he had his Lerasium beads, did he use them for Feruchemy?

Brandon Sanderson

[impish grin] Ah ha ha ha. The Lord Ruler, heh heh heh, That is an excellent question.

Herowannabe

Not going to answer?

Brandon Sanderson

Not going to answer that one.

Herowannabe

Would you answer if Hoid used it for Feruchemy?

Brandon Sanderson

His bead? Hoid’s bead was—He originally got it because he wanted to be an Allomancer. [Note that he doesn’t actually answer the question.]

Second: (also from 03/29/2014)

Quote

Question

Has Hoid used his Lerasium Bead for Feruchemy?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid got the bead originally because he wanted to become an Allomancer.

Footnote

BWS has stated elsewhere that Hoid has not used his lerasium bead.

Third: (from 02/25/2016)

Quote

Question

Can you share any abilities that Hoid has accrued so far in the books, has he-- I can't even pronounce the L-word...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, lerasium, he is indeed an Allomancer. That has happened. I haven't confirmed much else, but he does have that.

Footnote

confirmed

The reason this is a bit confusing is that No Cosmere time has passed between the dates of these quotes (i.e., WoR is the furthest along in the Cosmere timeline).

19 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I am aware of this. I'm sorry if my wording suggested otherwise, but I didn't need the explanation on manifestations of investiture, nor did I say anything which suggested you didn't, so I don't know why you wrote that last sentence in the first paragraph.

The thing about lightweaving and soulcasting is that they are not manifestations of investiture unique to a shard and world. They are effects of manifestations which can be achieved by different means, such as Roshar's surgebinding of the Surge of Illumination or Surge of Transformation. I haven't read Dragonsteel but I'm assuming that Lightweaving wasn't a manifestation of investiture of it, but a resulting ability or effect. Since Brandon specifically says Feruchemy, it would have to be from Scadrial.

Note: This is a suggestion, but I think forum dynamics could be improved if you weren't slightly condescending when you reply to someone. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but the specific wording you used can give that impression to people

 

I'm sorry that my reply came off as condescending.  It was not my intent.  The last sentence of the first paragraph was merely intended to address what I thought was the natural response to my reply.  It seemed likely that the next avenue would reference previous WOB that indicates that the planet itself affects the manifestation of the investiture of its associated Shard.  I only intended to note that I was aware of this and was not excluding it from my thought process.

36 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Feruchemy is the manifestation of investiture of both Ruin and Preservation, so I don't think it could've predated Scadrial. What I think Brandon meant, is that Hoid had somehow acquired a limited prescience ability, to help him find where to go next, where and when something "novel-worthy" occurs. However, this power is limited and non-precise, meaning that he misses his guess sometimes. WoB on that matter. However, now that he has obtained feruchemical powers after visiting Scadrial, he is somehow using it to amplify his prescience abilities, using feruchemical compound tapping, so he can more precisely go where he wants to be. 

To an extent that is accurate.  However, at least some abilities manifest similarly but originate from different worlds (i.e., lightweaving manifests from both Yolen and Roshar).  I did note that the metallic arts are a manifestation of two shards (Ruin and Preservation, though I did not name them.  I figured that at this point everyone is pretty well versed in that.).  Remember that all abilities resulting from shardic investiture would be contained within the power of Adonalsium (which Hoid predates the shattering of). And yes, I know that the intent of the Shard, the intent of the entity holding the Shard, and the world being invested all affect the manner of manifestation of the investiture.

Brandon may very well have misspoken.  But, I think the wording is compelling and very exciting if he did not misspeak.

Hello everybody! A thought tickled my brain after reading a couple of WOBs and I thought I'd pop my head up to see what folks have to say about it.  First the WOBs:

WOB #1:

Quote

Mike Cockrum:

Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go?

Brandon Sanderson

He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books.

WOB #2:

Quote

Paladin Brewer

Why did Hoid not take both beads of lerasium?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid has an innate ability to know where he needs to be and what he needs to do.

So we know that Hoid pops up in many places, interacts with important people, and gathers cool stuff in order to achieve some desired outcome.  We also know that he uses feruchemy order to know where to go.  However, it had previously always been discussed and speculated that Hoid obtained his feruchemy on Scadrial or from some Scadrian artifact.  However, the more recent of the two WOBs above (that would be #2 from Librarypalooza back in Feb of this year) indicates that his ability to know where to go is "innate".  This suggests that Hoid had his feruchemy from birth (since that is what 'innate' means).  However we know that Hoid predates Scadrial since he was present at the shattering of Adonalsium (and Scadrial, or at least its flora, fauna, and metallic arts, was created by the combined efforts of two of the shards).  This means that he predates Scadrian feruchemy.  So, is feruchemy a native Yolan art or did Brandon misuse the term 'innate'?

I asked Brandon a series of questions about rithmatics.  In a nutshell, this is the best answer I have to your question.  Rithmatics was originally conceptualized as a cosmere magic system.  This means that it is pretty close (but not bounded by and not completely consistent with) to the rules and features of cosmere magics.  Specifically, Brandon said that intent is a key facet of rithmatics.  This is pretty clear in some regards from reading the book (i.e., lines of revocation and the silencing line do not work if you draw them without intending to produce their rithmatic function).  I asked Nrandon specifically about timing of effect in regards to lines of forbiddence and he said the timing of the effect generation depends upon the intent of the rithmatist drawing the line.  My take away from this is that a rithmatist drawing a Mark's Cross would not intend for the lines of forbiddence to 'activate' until the second line had been completed. Thus, the first line would not produce an effect until the second line was drawn.

Blaze1616: That's a pretty clear cut, I guess. Is that on Theoryland? Or do you at least have a link? Not that I disbelieve, I just like to read more on everything I can find.

 

It's ...ahem...in blaze's post where it says "source". 

don't say that Fezzini. Please.

INCONCEIVABLE!!!

I'm a flibbertidigibbit!

His IQ may be fairly high, but IQ has little if anything to do with dexterity.  However, a high IQ could help him judge the precision of his drawings and thereby make his practices mcuh more efficient since he would not have to measure, etc. in order to see what needs to be improved.

testing again.  The edit screwed up my test post.

It should also be noted that the Recreance is viewed as the first failure of Vorinism.  This means that the KR were a prominent facet of Vorinism.  After the KR left everybody hanging in the middle of the war, Vorinism would have been on the edge of a cliff so to speak.  I would not be surprised if the leaders of Vorinism made a choice to smear and vilify the KR as fallen in order to get out in front of their predicament and make an effort not only to survive as an organization/religion, but also to maintain their power base as much as possible.

Out of perhaps morbid curiosity, is there a rank for someone with fewer than -100 rep?  Or is that just not the sort of thing that gets "rewarded" with a ranking?   

We went on a crusade once against a spambot, and one member actually asked deliberately for it, and beyond -100 I'm pretty sure there wasn't anything.

Yeah, that was fun.  If you want to check it out, go here.  At -100 we got it too "Zucchini", then Chaos shut us down and banned me...er...the Fall Guy after we set a goal to get to -512.

Is there a way to track which of your posts got you that latest rankup?  

There is indeed, Landis.  Simply click on your username in the bar at the very absolute top of the page, click on 'my profile' in the drop down box, then, on your profile page, look at the menu of links in the column on the left side for a link called 'Repuation'.  Click on that and you will be taking to a list of each post for which you have received an upvote or a downvote.  The first listed post will be your most recently made post which has been up- or downvoted (though I would prefer if it were the mostr recently up- or downvoted post.  When you get a large volume of posts, it is difficult to track down where your most recent upvote came from).

Not a bad idea.  But if the bracers were an alloy of atium and nicrosil, then Elend et al. would have had a heck of a time removing the atium from the bracers.  They certainly would not have been able to do so without destroying the bracers in the process.  It seems more likely that there was some atium attached to the bracers in some manner similar to soldering or brazing or some type of adhesive. 

My impression was that what they did prevented them from returning to their torture.  But maybe I read too much into the story there.

I don't think that the way they left their blades had anything to do with not returning to torture.  I think that leaving the blades was more in line with the idea (likely originating from Jezrien) that if they were abandoning their positions and status as Heralds, then they should no longer carry the blades that were given to them to empower them in their roles as Heralds.

I'm completely new here so bear with me, but here's how I see it:

The advantage of Hemalurgy is its flexibility, in that it can be used to gain either Allomantic or Feruchemical powers, the tradeoff being a net-loss of power, or potency. One can use any Allomantic metal to gain these powers, but the most effective is, of course, atium.

With Allomancy, one can only gain power, going from normal human to misting/mistborn, or from misting to mistborn, all through the use of lerasium. The logical tradeoff would be that since it's a balance between power and flexibility, Allomantic burning can only be used to gain Allomantic powers, making it impossible to become a Feruchemist through Allomancy. If anything, Allomantically burning an alloy of lerasium and atium would turn that person into an Atium Misting, or Seer.

To become a full Feruchemist without use of Hemalurgy, which would result in a loss of power (and dead Feruchemist), or Allomancy, which is impossible, one would need to use the only art which balances flexibility and power, Feruchemy itself.

This supports the theory that one would need to use a lerasium/atium metalmind, although I'm not sure exactly how that would work.

Welcome Bouskila.  I'm honored to have your first post be in a thread I created.  As you probably read above, I also agree that burning to get feruchemy would be less than satisfying to me.  Granted, we have that quote from Brandon indicating that the default result of burning lerasium is becoming a mistborn, but that it could be done in such a way as to have different result.  I read this as potentially, if you knew what you were doing, you could gain feruchemy or some other ability or heal spirit web damage, etc.

But, I think that there is likely someway that you could gain feruchemy as a default condition as well.

There is a moment in HoA where Harmony says "The Lord Ruler claimed to be both of Preservation and Ruin; which was inaccurate because he only touched one of the powers"

 

Bands of Mourning speculation 

From what I've read, the rumours in this book are that TLR's bracers are somewhere and grant the wearer the abilities that he had. What if it was no coincidence that he dubbed himself of both Ruin and Preservation. What if, when he took the power, he saw the existence of "Harmonium"/"Sazedium" and made his bracers out of it. Thus, is stated above, the alloy of Ruin and Preservation would give a balance and be able to grant the wearer said abilities

Regarding your speculation, Shadow, Since Sazed ascended fully, in contrast to TLRs partial ascension, I would expect that he gained a greater knowledge than during ascension than TLR did.  Add this to Sazed's already greater knowledge than TLR had at the time of his ascension.  

Additionally, I doubt he had a substantial quantity of lerasium in order to make an alloy.  Also, lerasium was something he apparently kept secret.  He likely didn't even discuss it with those he gave a bead to to become the original mistborn.  He wanted to guarantee his power and dominion.  If someone burned two beads, they would have been a crazy powerful mistborn that probably could have rather handily affected metal internal to someone's body.  This would have left TLR much more vulnerable to early overthrow while he was still consolidating his power.

I suspect that he would have been very hesitant to seek out more lerasium than he had.  If he had enough lerasium to make his bracers, then I would have expected him to use the two beads left at the well (Elend's and Hoid's) also.