Ookla the Invariably Tired

Hey everyone! Been around for a bit with a different account but decided to make a new one so new intro! I am pretty sure I've read all of Brandon's books, except for like half of Edgedancer and Yumi and the Nightmare painter. Am very into reading and lore, and could probably yap for 10 straight hours about Stormlight, Mistborn, or other nerd topics. Recently started playing D&D and getting into RP for myself, very fun. Glad to be here in this fantastic community!

"I knew a one-armed swordsman once,” Adolin said, yawning. “He had trouble in duels because he couldn’t hold a shield, or two-hand a sword.” “Obviously,” Formless said, turning and rummaging in her trunk. “But I tell you,” Adolin said, “no one could arm-wrestle like Dorolin. No one.” “What is your point?” “Who do you think is stronger?” Adolin asked. “The man who has walked easily his entire life, or the man with no legs? The man who must pull himself by his arms?” "We don’t always see strength the right way,” Adolin said. “Like, who is the better swimmer? The sailor who drowns—giving in at long last to the current after hours of fighting—or the scribe who has never stepped into the water?” And later: "Who is a better swimmer?” Veil whispered. “It’s the sailor who has swum his entire life, even if he encounters rough seas that challenge him. Who is the stronger man? It is the man who must pull himself by his arms. And that swordsman with one arm … He was probably the best in raw skill. He couldn’t win because of his disadvantages, but he wasn’t weaker than the others.” The way this scene BROKE me. Oh my gosh. I dont cry when reading often but the beauty of this moment and truth of those words... I love Kaladin and Dalinar's arcs, but I think Shallan has the greatest character development of them all, and maybe even in all of fiction.

This could be from anywhere in the cosmere, and I use scholar very loosely here, though some characters feel obviously, so maybe I should separate it into categories. I guess the various categories would be shards, non ascended immortals/extremely long lived individuals (I think this would include Heralds and returned though I may be using the term ascended incorrectly), and then mortals with normal life spans. Why do you guys think? Who is the most intelligent in each category?

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That does, thanks

So I just had a thought about this. In the debate with Jasnah, Taravangian does not say what number she was thinking of, and it is implied that this is due to a lack of ability. However, Taravangian later changes the memories of the population of Kharbranth. This leads to three possibilities. First, he was lying to Jasnah, and knew what number she was thinking. I don’t think this is very likely. Secondly, he shouldn’t have been able to change their memories. I don’t like to think this is a continuity error, and Brandon makes almost zero of those, and I can’t think of any that I have seen. Finally, a more in-universe idea. Are memories somehow different from regular thoughts? At what point does a thought become a memory? Memories seem to work in a very interesting way. Two interesting instances come to mind: both with Hoid. First, when he meets with Todium at the end of RoW. Todium removes the 3 minutes or whatever from his memory, but he does it by destroying Hoid’s breaths. This was always strange to me; why was Hoid keeping such recent memories, literally things that happened seconds before, in his breaths? I would have imagined he kept older memories in the those breaths. We know that he definitely lost breaths, but why were his memories and even current thoughts in them? The other moment was when Hod was disintegrated, and his body regrew from some cells. A few thoughts on that. Wat said that Odium vaporized Hoid, turning him into a fine red mist. So, if those cells hadn’t been there, wouldn’t Hoid have regrown from those bits of red mist, whichever one happened to be largest? Sorry that was a small tangent, but with his memories, he had all of his memories when he woke, despite his clump of cells likely having been separate from him for decades or centuries. This gives me the impression that memories are tied to Identity in an interesting way that we haven’t yet seen explored. This doesn’t resolve the question, and I still wonder how Odium changed all those people’s memories. Any thoughts would be welcome!

One thing on the Nale-Kaladin fight, they said no stormlight, and Kaladin fought with nothing more than his armor, which Nale also had, but Nale fought with his additional powers from the ancient gods of the land. Without that, Kaladin would have landed multiple hits on Nale, as it was taking Nale using that extra speed to evade his strikes. This doesn’t mean much for someone hitting Taln with Nightblood, but it gives some perspective to the fight between Nale and Kaladin. I think the result would have been significantly different if Nale hadn’t used his additional powers.

I agree in part. She is about change but more exactly she is about progression, positive change. Long lasting war doesn’t serve her or the power of Cultivation. I want to think that she had a plan with Dalinar. Her intervention in his life led to him refusing Odium in OB, and also gave him the confidence and the wisdom, in part, to make the gamble he did at the end of WaT. I can imagine her making the same realization Dalinar did: neither she nor honor could beat him without destroying Roshar, and humans could never pin Todium into a situation where he could lose. I personally think that Rayse would have made enough mistakes to allow this, or at least where the humans had a thousand years to plan. What I personally don’t understand is why she put Taravangian into a position where he could ascend. He seems to be the only person capable of ruining everything. The only explanation I can see is that Taravangian wanted to be right so badly, he would make the barely perceptible mistake of taking enough power that the other shards would finally need to deal with him. However, that was a gamble, and it would have been easier to keep Rayse in the position he was, and allow Dalinar and Wit to deal with Odium as he was. I don’t know. Koravellum Avast, as we know, was human. Or something like it. She made mistakes, just like Rayse, Tanavast, or Taravangian. Even with all her fortune and foresight, she couldn’t make a perfect plan. However, hers seems to be particularly flawed.

I thought the same thing when I read that. I think it might have something to do with the nature of oaths and bonds. Perhaps Battar's original oath to Honor can override her hasty agreement/oath made to Odium. Additionally, it seemed that the oathpact held strong despite all the heralds having at times wildly different views and outlooks. I would not be surprised if Battar attempted to make contact with Odium or vice versa, but the oath made by the other nine made it impossible.

Valid. Still, the power that he holds in Nightblood is immense. It will be interesting to see what Szeth does with that, now that he has become a peaceful man with a wife. Yes, the Heralds have great abilities, but Kaladin and Szeth both fought back for a time, and with a proper weapon, I believe they could be killed. There is a lot at play, and a lot of angles to consider. Nale was beaten by Lift, and despite his Heraldic powers, he failed to kill her or the Stump. I think that it is tough to gauge the potency of those powers, as they seem to contradict with other examples of Heralds fighting. Nale was able to defeat Kaladin, perhaps Roshar's greatest spearman, using his speed and agility, but Shallan as a girl killed Chana, despite the Herald having the advantage. IMO, we dont know enough about these powers to truly determine the outcome of a fight against the scholars with Nightblood, but I think this new Nightblood would pose a serious threat to the Heralds, especially if used with the bondsmith powers to open a perpendicularity. I don't know about that. Again, I think we dont know enough about the way Nightblood functions. There is not a clearly defined method by which Nightblood seems to be consuming its victims, but I haven't seen any evidence that the extent to which an individual is invested will make a difference. Logically, it would matter, but we dont know if it does. I also said it would happen more easily than we assumed, working off an assumption that it would be very difficult. I dont know, and if you remember somewhere that shows Nightblood struggling to consume a highly invested person, I would love to see it. Agreed. However, Taln died. He probably died the most, I would bet, of all the Heralds, as he picked such un-winable fights and won them. That doesnt mean much but he isn't invincible, and no one has even seen anything like the new Nightblood. Taln is the best fighter in the cosmere, but can anyone stand against someone expertly wielding all 10 surges? This is not a canon ability, but even the spren allow two at once, so why not ten? Again, we dont know enough, but I think Szeth specifically, wielding Nightblood and all ten surges, which he spent years training in, could give Taln a serious run for his money. Just some thoughts. So much of this is unknown as of right now. However, if Nightblood can do what I hope (and fear) it can, then it is an incredible force in the cosmere.

Thanks. That is interesting. I hope we see more of Rysn in the future, as she is sure to play a part: all the dawnshards will likely be influential in the coming books.

Good points. That makes me wonder how power scaling would be set up across the cosmere. Many seem to consider Radiants and stormlight the most powerful force in the cosmere, and they evidently hold great power. Led by the Heralds, I wonder if there are any who could stand against them. Its interesting how powerful the nahel bond has proven to be. The direct connection to a sentient piece of a shard, something not seen anywhere else, is remarkably powerful. It poses many interesting questions about the future of the Cosmere, as each system develops the ability to travel to other worlds.

Sorry guys, I have a lot to say now that I've (finally) finished WaT. In a cosmere discussion thread, some people were discussing 5 scholars vs 10 heralds, and Nightblood was a significant portion of that fight, what with its ability to destroy anyone, seemingly regardless of how invested they are. However, Nightblood has gained some shocking abilities by talking to Kaladin and the Honorblades (who are apparently sentient). It now has the ability to grant surgebinding abilities, indicating that was easy, as even the spren could do so. It gave Szeth lashing with no apparent limitations or (correct me if I'm wrong here) access to Stormlight. He was also unoathed, and Nightblood was giving Szeth at least the full abilities of the Windrunner honorblade. It seems fair to assume that Nightblood could grant the other surges, as it apparently Connected to Kaladin. This has a lot of very interesting (terrifying?) implications. I didn't see anything that indicated Nightblood continued to grant the surges once Kaladin's stormlight ran out, but I also didn't see evidence for the contrary. Should Nightblood be able to somehow grant surgebinding to any without stormlight, I don't believe anyone could defeat its wielder. Especially not that Nightblood has gained the self-control to not destroy its friends. This could make Szeth, even without a spren, into the most powerful warrior on Roshar, and likely in the Cosmere, capable of controlling any surge. Hopefully this is not the case, and Brandon didn't introduce such an unbalanced character. I believe that Nightblood will still require stormlight to power the surges, and that they will consume people without enough investure (other than Szeth, Kaladin, and a few others whom Nightblood considers friends). However, the ability to event potentially grant more than one surge is an unheard of ability, and it will most likely have massive implications for stormlight era 2 and the rest of the cosmere. Additionally, Nightblood feeds on investure, not just stormlight. Thus, if Szeth could access towerlight, lifelight, voidlight, or warlight, he could very easily wield Nightblood. In fact, should he regain a spren bond, and therefore access to towerlight, I am certain he could conquer the entire city of Urithiru alone. As for the fight I referenced earlier, of the 10 heralds vs 5 scholars? I think that anyone of the scholars, with Nightblood, could decimate the Heralds. The ease with which Nightblood consumed the honor-bearers implied to me that Nightblood could consume the heralds more easily than we assumed, and the honor-bearers with likely highly invested beings, similar in nature to the fused or heralds themselves. Wielded by Szeth with proper amount of investure, Im not sure anyone, including Taln, could defeat him. It seems like Brandon has left a lot of very important questions for us with Nightblood, which I hope are resolves quickly in book 6 of the Stormlight archives. In the meantime, thoughts?

What is it exactly (if we know) that makes the Fused so much weaker than the Heralds? I saw a topic thread earlier, dont remeber which one or who said it unfortunately, that equated Heralds to Unmade, raditants to Fused, and regals in their own weird category, which seems very accurate to the book. We also know from Tanavast's memories that he imbued the largest portion of his power that he would give into the heralds, and that since there were only ten heralds, each could have more condensed power. However, they were made in similar ways, with both fused and heralds being made immortal and given access to the surges. Thus, it seems to me that at least some of this imbalance of power comes from stormlight being better, or at least more potent, than voidlight. I believe it was Raboniel who talked to Navani in RoW about how Radiants were more powerful and could unlease their powers in a more spectacular way. Is that in part due to the bond they have with the spren? We also see repeatedly that radiants can utlize their abilites far better than fused can. For example, windrunners can use lashings while heavenly ones only seem to have one lashing, and masked ones are implied to have a very weak control over their illusions in WaT, with masked ones being barely reveant once, in Oathbringer. This to me implies a greater level of potency for stormlight, and I dont see why exactly. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I haven't seen anyone talking about Rysn at all, but if they have, please point me there. In the meantime, I have some thoughts and ideas to pose. Rysn was one of the interlude characters from the beginning, part of the story since WoK. She never seemed to have much relevance, and her story, while intermingling with the rest of the characters, always had its own track. It seems clear that Brandon has (likely) big plans for her and Chiri Chiri, as a dawnshard. IIRC, dawnshards are what were used to kill Adonalsium, but there were only four, so not all 16 vessels wielded one. I assume that Hoid held one at the time of the Shattering, as his story to Dalinar seems to imply that he held the dawnshard very early in his life. Do we know what would happen if two dawnshards were to come together, as almost happened in Rysn's interlude? Additionally, why does having radiant powers matter so much to holding a dawnshard? Hoid held numerous different powers, including allomancy and surgebinding. None of them seemed to compound one another, and he was able to use them normally, without any obvious enhancement of his abilities. What does all of this mean for Rysn? It seems clear she intends to keep the dawndshard and remain on Roshar, but other than that we don't know a lot. Also, what is the association between the dawnshard and the sleepless, and why do the sleepless not know about Hoid holding the dawnshard again? Any thoughts would be appreciated.