WardenGiggles

But they didn't agree, or if they did, they didn't follow through did they? They are the only order who stayed around, even if it wasn't publicly. Or did most of their order go through with it and a smaller group carry on the order?

So the one would the Skybreakers? What's the referenced subterfuge then?

25 minutes ago, CelliCellos said:

If it was a human-honor spren cross that would explain the blue skin

If you're taking the story literally, I'd think the moon would have a specific spren, or type of spren.

4 minutes ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

I'd like to circle back just to add that I'm not sure Hoid did bond the cryptic

I agree. I certainly think it's not set in stone either way, but I think if he were to bond it, we would have seen him saying the entire first Ideal instead of just starting it.

8 hours ago, Ookla the Leyspren said:

Second, the Dustbringers have no unique powers, except maybe their resonance (which I would expect to be less important than which Surges they have access to). They share Division with the Skybreakers and Abrasion with the Edgedancers, so if their powers would destroy the world, then at least one of the adjacent orders (most likely Skybreakers, as they share Division) would have the same risk, and there is no real stigma attached to them.

I would think the Skybreakers devotion to law would be a point in their favor as far as "not likely to destroy the world".

8 hours ago, Ookla the Leyspren said:

And third, Malata is most likely just referring to the Recreance, where the Dustbringers as well as the other orders (except Skybreakers) killed their spren.

Maybe, but it does seem like they're referencing something more specific. More intentional. Like perhaps the intent was to kill the ashspren and the other orders were collateral?

On 11/23/2017 at 8:48 AM, PhineasGage said:

I did wonder if Syl was really an 'honorspren' (there is at least one WoB (http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=bonding+honorspren) saying that is what she calls herself but not specifically calling her that himself. On top of that, she regularly calls herself a windspren and when Kaladin corrects her she agrees in odd ways. It just feels.... odd.

So most of the Honor spren were created by Honor. Makes sense. But in OB we learn that Syl was actually created by the Stormfather not Honor. Maybe that makes her something new?

17 hours ago, Awesomness said:

Isn´t it weird that he doesn't remember???

Honestly, while I do sort of agree, it's really not. Consider how much he has in his head. He also knows where the story is going so he has ideas for what's to come and I'm sure it's easy to lose track of what's been published and what's still conceptual.

What I think is interesting are the answers that are more philosophical where he says that person X from the world would say this is happening, but he (Brandon) is not convinced. I mean, shouldn't Brandon know how it works if anyone does?

Did the KR know the blades and plate would be left behind when they abandoned their oaths? How would they? It seems to be it had to be a conscious decision to force those things to remain, otherwise, why summon the blade and plate before breaking the oath?

Also, the visions are not necessarily 100% accurate, more just a interpretation of something Dalinar needed to see.

What about Mraize bonding the Nightwatcher?

Just now, Stormfather-in-Law said:

I thought the same thing, but not from noticing windspren nearby when he is close to oaths. For me it was when he saved the townsfolk from the highstorm by forming a barrier of windspren. I thought, 'this is a predecessor to plate' when reading that scene.

But that's an active ability, whereas Plate is passive object (at least in its dead incarnation). I would think that would be....something else. I don't know what though.

For some reason, the thing that sticks in my mind about the Dagger is where did it come from? We see Azure sail off with Ico and his ship and know she's already planning to tell them how to create a "shardblade" with no bonded spren. Is it possible somehow she either told them, who in turn were coerced into telling the Fused and eventually Odium? So in effect this dagger would be more like Nightblood or Azure's shardblade?

So, this might be a bit of a tangent from this thread, but is Kaladin's plate going to be made up of Windspren? The times it's seemed like he's been close to saying the Words, there were windspren conspicuously around him. And if so, are there other cousins to the highspren that the orders bond that will make up their Plate?

8 hours ago, Cenanin said:

A lot of people think there is no evidence for Timbre as Eshonai, but I think there's tons and tons of it for Timbre at least being related to a parshendi "spirit" that resides in their gemhearts, they "hear" the rhythms, and Eshonai heard screaming deep down(because her spirit was screaming from the voidspren occupying the house with them).

In WoR I assumed the screaming was because something else had basically made Eshonai a prisoner in her own body and the screaming she heard was the real Eshonai. I guess that's less likely than the screaming being from the spren now though.

This is interesting. I'll have to think on it some. When all the gloryspren started streaming towards him, I was almost certain Dalinar was going to somehow reassemble Honor.

27 minutes ago, Ookla the Busker said:

Theoretically. Each Lashing only gets you a pull equivalent to the normal weight of the thing, though. The pull weight on a bow is going to be some huge multiple of its actual weight, and even more the weight of its projectile, so it would take a while to use Lashings to fire a grandbow, I think.

And it would probably be faster and more accurate to just Umpty-Lash the arrow at the person you want to shoot and leave the bow alone.

Right, he could have lashed it multiple times, and that plus his strength would let him shoot the shardbow. But I agree, it would be simpler to just lash the arrow at someone many times, though I think you'd have to do that over a short period of time wouldn't you? As in you couldn't just lash it 10 times all at once? 

Is this Cryptic's name Pattern or does he just refer to it as Pattern with a capital P so we know what kind of spren it is?

Doesn't Lift say that she's not supposed to grow older? At one point she remarks something to the effect  that she wasn't supposed to grow older but "she lied", I think, referring to the Nightwatcher or Cultiation. I assumed that was what she asked for. Is it possible that being empowered by food instead of stormlight is her curse?

I think it was likely Rock's amplified strength that let him shoot the shardbow, but wouldn't you be able to lash the arrow/spear backwards and the bow itself forwards to achieve the same effect without that strength? I'd guess that would be pretty hard to do accurately though.

I actually was thinking something like this when I was reading. In the original trilogy they Vin had to be very secretive because of Ruin's powers.  What if Harmony can't act in certain ways because it would alert the other Player to what he was trying to do?

Argent brings up something very interesting here. What if Harmony cant do the most logical thing? The best possible course of action would have been "Hey, Wax, I need you back in Elendel. Your uncle is up to some shady stuff. Oh... and your girlfriend is a kandra. I sent her to protect you."

 

What if that was impossible because his shards were in conflict? That puts everything in a completely different light to me. If he did all he could do, then yes, this was probably the best course of action, if he could have told Wax, but didnt, then no, then he screwed up.

Are there two ways to get someone to do something? Generally yes. But the problem is that method one and method two produce different results. Maybe one way makes a person more committed and the other encourages the person to do just enough to get by. I think Harmony is preparing Wax in exactly the way he needs to be prepared, to carry out the tasks he needs to get done.

Could just asking him to go to Elendel have gotten him there? Maybe, but that doesn't mean he would have all the tools and knowledge he needed once he was there.

morallly, I accept that he is doing right in interfering. I trust his judgment, knowing that on the southern continent there are other, possibly hostile people, and that there are other shards around, many of whom unfriendly, that harmony has to take steps to protect himself and his planet; and that the common people are like soldiers in a war, and can become casualties.

 

But I strongly disagree with how he did it  from a pragmatic point of view. You want wax to go fight evil in elendel?

 

....

 

To sum it up, I agree with harmony's intentions, but I believe he's going all wrong about it.

This.

I honestly don't think we have enough information to make a fair judgement, so I gave Harmony the benefit of the doubt and voted Yes.

 

...

 

Bottom line, I return to my original statement that I don't think we really know enough to definitively judge Sazed's actions, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I don't know how you can really answer this poll because obviously we don't know what Harmony knows. We only know what's presented in the book. I think he's done the best we can, and if we disagree it's likely because we don't know what he does.

The other option would be that no he didn't do the best he could because he's being manipulated into somehow thinking he's doing what's best.

Yeah, I assumed he meant the other continent also. 

Speaking of the other continent....maybe this was discussed when Alloy of Law came out. Why didn't Sazed/Harmony move both groups of people together? 

Didn't Harmony change the Koloss into humans though? They don't have spikes at all anymore, they're just big thuggish people right?

I believe the reason that there are Human/Koloss is because Koloss were originally Human to begin with. Kandra start out as a blob of Jello. Although, Bleeder does mention that she is aware of Human beings cells. Perhaps she could imitate a human well enough to fool the 'real' human half of the reproductive system to achieve conception. On the other hand that might just create a normal human in that case.

Also, Wayne has to be my favorite character in this book and maybe ever. I absolutely love Wayne.

Yeah, that's why I said usually. 

He gets the Last Emperor title too. 

I doubt he would just be throwing around a title like Lady Truth for no reason. Someone should ask.