Unholy Truth

I love it. Count me in

Despite not having the biggest highs of the series other than the "honor is dead" moment for me, this is my personal favorite and being the smoothest read of the series so far.

It bothers me how much sense that makes and shoots my work in progress down again lol. It still feels like something more than just BAM going on with this relationship. To be clear about your comment when it says, "direct control" Is it saying he can tell spren "X" go bond with this person (assuming they are compatible with skybreakers) and the spren would have no say?

Pat Jacobs The Herald Nale seems to have direct control of the spren of his order, do the other Heralds as well? Brandon Sanderson No. Good question. No. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) Is this Wob not implying the existence of the other Herald's Spren ? I've been digging some more into this lately and seeing some more connections. Nothing definitive but this Wob stood out as weird to me. I'm reading it as they had spren but just no longer have control of them.

Is it confirmed that they are original splinters of odium? If something similar were to happen to syl when shes in physical form, would we see a similar effect on kalidan? Because its ripping off a piece of the spirit ?

This is very much how I feel. Its not that I skip lines and I wouldn't say early WoK was boring at all but it did take me 5-6 chapters before I felt like I had my feet under me and a picture of what's going. I also read warbreaker after RoW so def looking forward to that. Favorite death rattles?

About to start my 2nd journey through Stormlight and I was wondering were some of your favorite things you picked up on the 2nd time through or some things you were able to appreciate more?

Awesome thanks again for your thoughtful responses. I'm finishing up my first readthrough of cosmere and definitely wish I would have got to the party sooner. Till next time!

All clear, Thank you! I recently read up on atium ret con and see why it was done and wasn't really bothered by it. But someone burning Honor or cultivation's god metal may not necessarily become a surgebinder? The shard has control or at least influence in what the effect would be?

Assuming for a moment that Hoid's lightweaving from yolen does predate the shattering, based on what we discussed he wouldn't have needed to do any spirit web stuff to make this work on roshar? The Herald stuff makes more sense to me now, thanks. Why can a Rosharan "burn" anything? Is this something just fundamental to the god metals?

So, post shattering there was nothing unique about this specific piece of Innate investiture and it just got reassigned to one of the 16 shards? Is it really just different forms of breath? Feels like it should be more. Is a herald active investiture because it is a cognitive shadow? or is it a separate thing? and if yes, would a herald have any problems burning a lerasium bead? When you say both investitures would be keyed to me specifically that makes me think the spirit web is like decrypting the investiture, so it knows what to do with it? Does a person's spirit web from say Scadrial need any changes before being able to do this? Or is this just available to everyone in the cosmere?

Thank you, that last paragraph finally got it to click for me. So, is there any significance to this innate piece of investiture? With the Hoid thing I more so meant with how they don't conflict with each other, because normally Investiture would resist other Investiture, but it would seem that must not have always been case and was likely only post shattering is my read of it. For example, you couldn't breathe in stormlight and then try to burn metals because of the investiture problem is my understanding of it.

Thanks for the reply again alder, so then by that logic we can assume people before the shattering are still carrying an innate piece of Adnolsium ? I would then assume this is tied to how someone like Hoid can use different magics in different systems? "The Shattering means that Adonalsium was killed and his investiture was associated with 16 Shards that were created." Are you saying all the investiture at this time was the same? or like 16 different buckets and everyone got a little piece of each? I see where it says all investiture was assigned so it sounds to me that it was something like raw energy that was assigned a specific role?

So, on planets like Scadrial or Nalthis people are born a little piece of the corresponding shard. I believe we would just call them invested, but there may be a better term. My question is if there was anything like that before the shattering? Would people be born with a piece of Adnolasium? If so, then would that piece also shatter or would people like hoid or others from his time keep this part of their spirit web?

Is your theory something like the planet itself because it's so heavily invested (3 Shards) and has been for so long that the planet itself has been become self-aware? I really like that idea.

That all makes sense. I don't know how I've never come across these wobs before, is it confirmed that nightwatcher is unbonded or just no evidence for it? Thank you, the quick answers and great quotes. You're doing Adonalsium's work out here What do you mean by soul of Roshar?

Heralds can also gain Surgebinding by forming a Nahel bond.[18][50] It is unclear whether their spren would follow them to Braize or would be left in the Cognitive Realm, though most likely they would follow them.[51] I see now it's just saying, "they can." I just thought it was implying multiple heralds had this happen otherwise why not just say Nale? But yeah, the ruin comparison definitely explains it without it having to be at the spiritual level. Idk I was pretty attached the idea of what effect a 5th ideal Radiant having their spren corrupted would be and thought it would tie in the heralds somehow. Not looking like it as much anymore lol What's your current thoughts on why 9 unmade and not 10? Anything related to the everstorm and missing 3rd bondsmith?

I meant the Heralds previous spren, I was aware Nale was only the one who joined his order and didn't betray his oaths, but on the coppermind it made it seem like all the heralds had spren at one point. But yeah, I agree the torture was a factor in the madness, but I believe we have wob's that suggest that it may be something magical as well like the unmade alder suggested. Also, the 9 unmade seems a little off thematically but who knows.

Most of this topic is all RAFO stuff but it does seem like this would fill in some holes as well help explain the herald's madness. Ishar's "experiments" would make a little more sense at least in his motivation. Taravangian before taking up the shard also believed the unmade were previously spren and I can't remember the exact WOB but I believe it was unclear whether spren would return to braize after a heralds "death." Would love to hear some other thoughts on this.

Yes, I've read secret history so I do understand the distinction you're making between and living and dead cognitive shadow and how that influences what you can do it after being a Dawnshard. I also understand that the vessel influences the shard so we can expect Taravagian's version of odium to be slightly different than Raise but as time passes, he becomes more aligned with the shard's nature. The reason I used Odium as example is because the nature of that shard and I would assume a few others (Ruin for example) seem to be at odds with at least with 1 of the Dawnshards. But yeah, just holding odium's investiture wouldn't change your identity or influence your intent but being the vessel would as I understand it.

I understand why he was able to do what he did with Kelsier. But if someone had Odium's investiture (Splinter or the Shard) while also being a Dawnshard, they would still have this internal hatred (probably a better way to define that) but just incapable of acting upon it specifically in the physical realm? I realize a lot of this is coming in later books, I'm just trying to figure out how I feel about Hoid.

Thank you, Sunlit man is one I haven't gotten around to yet either, but this will definitely be the push I was looking for. Small follow up, So the Dawnshard (at least the one Hoid was in possession of) prevents one from causing harm in the physical realm (Still not sure on how harm is defined) but they could they still have malicious intentions?

How would you describe our current understanding of a Dawnshard?

This one is pretty far out there but I just wanted to see if anyone has seen evidence or hints to anything weird into Lirin's past. Hoid has interest in Kaladin's life (whether his interests are genuine or selfish) and it would explain his extreme level of pacifism. Most likely a rabbit hole but would love to hear some thoughts