utopian

First of thank you for all your replies. Sanderson is not hugely popular where I live so I don't get to talk about his work a lot. So those convo are really a pleasure to have. That being said let's go into it. Part 1. 1. I don't have a problem with him standing up. My problem lies with the aftermath of those event. Yes he convinced them down but they were willing to attack or at least rob him. Yet he never considered that maybe those people were not safe for him and his family ? That risking his safety (and his familiy's) for them was not worth it ? The way i read he made those calculation (safety of family Vs leading those misguided people) and chose the townspeople. My "problem" with these actions is that i cannot understand why he would risk that for people like them. 2. How do you know that they are not at risk ? it goes back to the first point. How do you come to the conclusion that people willing to rob you in the night for said brightlord are not a "risk" for your family ? So yes his son do in fact factor into his decision to leave or not. So either he considered that and chose to stay anyway (hence risking his family for the townspeople ) or he did not consider them a threat and he is just a fool. 3. The whole stealing bit those 2 replies seem related so i will answer them as one. What I am saying is that the fact that he is not charging for his work is the reason he needs to steal in the first place. Yes they give him just enough to live but obviously not enough to have savings (I don't think it's not reasonable to expect a parent to save for their kid's future). In other words his willingness to live off charity without any back up plan puts him in the predicament of needing to steal the money he could have saved for over the years by just charging enough to save (not making bank). But he didn't because of his rigid principles. 4. Same here. So on the fact that he chose to not move out after it all went down. This just genuinely baffles me. This place costs him everything but not only he does not seek justice about it. He keeps serving the same people (Roshone included) that created so much pain in his life why ?? Part 2 1. I agree part of parenting is forcing ideals on your children since they are too young to choose their own. But an other part of parenting is allowing your child to choose for them-self what works for them and actually empowering them to do just that. And at this second part Lirin fails tremendously as we see in OB and ROW. 2. As I've said earlier letting go of his no charge principle would have mitigated a lot of his problems ( because he would have actual savings). But he chose not to do that hence refusing to bend in his personal code even for his family (putting them in danger). He could have just left, he says as much almost verbatim to Kal. That they could and probably should leave in light of their recent troubles. But again he puts his principles and attachements to the town above the safety of his family. 3 There is such a thing look it up. But I agree that it was a confusing argument. The idea is that I don't believe that a principle is always good or always bad it depends on circumstance. For example imagine someone extending a hand to Sauron as his is about to die hence preventing the "good guys" to win. Even if it would technically be a nice thing in this context it is absolutely stupid to do so. Now back to Lirin, he applies his principle (in this case general selflessness) regardless of circumstances and in my opinion it's not virtuous but rather stupid. And my general opinion is that this rigid way of applying principles is the reason he put his family in danger when he did not need to. Hence the selfishness. I think that i adressed that at length but he could have simply charged for his work and have savings. Part 3 And to top it all off he dares treat Kaladin the way he does in spite of with all the responsibility he bears in his family's misery. As if he was right all along, that his way of doing thing is the absolute best. And saying vicious unfair things to make that point. Naah it does not sit right with me. His way of doing things is at the source of too much pain for him to act so righteous. And this is way i do not like (low key hate) Lirin as a person. But love him as well written character of fiction.

I don’t have the best memory and I am no cosmere expert BUT : 1. when the townspeople literally tried to break into his home ? 2. Or the time he admits that they could leave but he choses to stay « rambling about the link between a man and his town » 3. Or not charging for his work putting himself in the situation to need to steal in the first place. 4. Or the fact that he still lives in this forsaken place after THEY cost him his two sons. (Tbf I don’t put that on him being a bad parent just generally spineless ) 5. I will admit I do some projecting because I got soo mad at those townspeople as they are the worst and they don’t deserve Kal’s family (Lirin included) Also how does he put his son above himself ? he only wants Kal to conform to HIS ideals he could have let go of his no charges principal for his sons he did not. He could have moved out but again same thing. Actually what is one decision where Lirin chose to actually take care of his family ? There is such a thing as being selfless to a fault and I am not so sure that describes him quite well.

Honestly I just don’t get how people could consider Lirin a good father. He repeatedly chose the people of this curse forsaken village of Hearthstone over the safety of his family. That’s like the one job of a parent and he failed miserably. He is so judgmental [removed by moderator]. storm u Lirin cordialement