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Treach
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On 4/18/2024 at 12:23 PM, NameIess said:
I can't think of a reason, other than that Brandon normally has at least one character death in his series finales, and I guess people think Adolin's arc is complete enough that his death wouldn't matter too much in the grand scale of things? I don't buy it personally. I think that among the main cast a Dalinar death is the most likely, followed by Syl and/or Kaladin.
Depending on how you read it, Todium literally tells us Dalinar is planning to die.
QuoteDalinar had set himself up.. to fail
You can read that as Dalinar missing something and leaving a loophole. You can also read it as Dalinar planning to lose the trial since he knows thats the only way he can 100% guarantee the outcome. Todium muses as much just before saying this, that you only enter a deal where you can control the outcome.
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19 hours ago, L0N3STARR said:
Sorry if this has already been figured out by everyone else and I'm late to the party, but I just realized reading this WOB:
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/452/#e14536
That deadeyes are stuck in a transitionary state, just like Elantrians were! The influence of Ba-Ado-Mishram is necessary for spren to fully transition (or for bonds to fully be severed, perhaps) when their bonds are broken.
I'm sure that others knew this and nobody else is excited but I figured something out and had to share.
I think there is for sure something here and have had the same thought for some time. The Parshmen are also essentially stuck in a state and unable to transform, and I would argue the situation is fairly similar for the Sibling.
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On 4/29/2024 at 9:43 AM, alder24 said:
The problem with this is that Melishi and the Sibling broke their bond before the imprisonment of BAM, he would be unable to open a perpendicularity without his powers.
Do we have a source on Melishi and BAM breaking their bond before the imprisonment? Seems like they would have broken them after, since the Sibling is "essentially a deadeye" according to Raboniel.
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4 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:
Tldr: Tanavast and Koravari were Dawnshard holders. The four dawnshards are based on the four spiritual attributes. Ishar held a Dawnshard, and used it to create Anti-light and destroy Ashyn.
So I have always wondered why the Stormlight Archive is the world where we have seen the effects of Multiple dawnshards, instead of sprinkling them around the rest of the Cosmere.
We have the Change Dawnshard that Rysn found in Aimia, home of soulcasting.
We have a Dawnshard that can "bind" anything Voidish and Mortal
And we have Hoid,(The Sunlit Man spoilers)
Why?
I think it's because the Dawnshards are inherently connected to Roshar.
I think Honor and Cultivation were Dawnshard holders, who gave those up to accept a shard. Let me Explain
Something I think everyone gets wrong is that The Change Dawnshard isn't about any change. It is specifically Positive Change
And this makes sense. These are commands from Adonalsium, who is very similar to the Abrahamic God. The commands will be benevolent.
And what is Cultivation about if not transformation? Positive Change? Growth, nurturing, cutting away the the bad to make space for the good?
Very suspicious that these two ideas are so damn similar, right? But it's not a coincidence.
Koravari got the shard of Cultivation, because it was suited to the Dawnshard she used during the shattering, the (Positive) Change Dawnshard.
Since you can't hold both a shard and a Dawnshard (dawnshards supercharge magic already), she dropped hers on Roshar.
Let's also notice that Aimia is the home of soulcasters and that remaking is all about "Identity"
And i think her lover, Tanavast was in the same situation.
We know that Ishar used a Dawnshard to destroy Ashyn accidentally. We know he was a bondsmith before Roshar
Your abilities -existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded.A Bondsmith Connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world
But Ishar got an honorblade on Roshar? So how was he a Bondsmith?
Well we know the quote " Dawnshard that can "bind" anything Voidish and Mortal". But that doesn't seem to be the "change" Dawnshard. That is more connected to soulcasting.
It also makes more sense to me that Ishar's abilities are connected to the Dawnshard he was already experimenting with.
What if the Dawnshard had powers related to Connection? Something like " Bind" or "Touch" or "Connect"?
The Bondsmith becomes the title of someone who has held this Dawnshard of Connection. Ishar held a Dawnshard on Ashyn.
And how did it get on Ashyn? Well is it any coincidence that Honor just happens to be about bonds, connection and oaths?
Tanavast's shard is very similar to the Dawnshard he used for the shattering. After getting his shard, he dropped his Dawnshard on Ashyn instead of Roshar probably for equality between the two planets.
They dropped them in the rosharan system so that they could keep an eye on these powerful weapons.
Remember Hoid was going to get a shard, but he declined. Tanavast and Koravari could easily have been dawnshards.
Which sadly means that making a 4×4 model of Dawnshard and shard intents probably won't work out. Tanavast and Koravari match up too perfectly.
Let's talk about Hoid's Dawnshard. He made an oath to "be where he was needed to be". He uses Fortune for that effect. What if this ability was connected to his Dawnshard? We know it can give you the ability to-(TSM spoilers)
I can guess what the single word command could be- "Be". If you had access to immense ammount of fortune, you would be living exactly how your life is meant to go, you would be truly alive with no uncertainty or anxiety, following your god- given sense of intuition. Having fortune will help you live your life to the fullest. You could have the surest identity, have the best friends, have magic but still have bad luck. However, if you have fortune, you are on a god given destiny, which
If the command is "Be", it could be the reason why Hoid can't eat meat. Living your own life to the fullest might be beneficial to everybody living their life well. This Dawnshard is about Life itself. That's why it hates violence
So now we have a Dawnshard of Connection, of Fortune, and of Identity ( because change is about Identity)( What is Positive Change if not Finding your true identity?). These are all spiritual attributes. That is what I think Dawnshards are. The creation of the Spiritual Realm to cognitive to physical.
The last Dawnshard then would be about "Investiture". The command word could just be "invest". This would be the command that lets magic be real in the cosmere. The other three technically could exist in the real world, if the spiritual realm exists in our world. The fourth Dawnshard is the one that makes the cosmere special.
But how can you use Connection to destroy a Planet?
One word answer- "Anti-Light"
Navani can't connect to Honor right now, so she chooses to connect to Odium and use it against Odium. That is what anti void light is. Voidlight used to destroy voidlight. Odium against Odium.
Later...
It takes connection to shard to create its anti light. This is how ishar destroyed Ashyn. Using his connection based powers, he created Anti light.
Remember that Kalak is not surprised to see Anti-Light in the prologue. He even knows that it can be used to destroy the Fused. How, if it is a new invention?
It isn't, Ishar already used it one and destroyed a planet before Kalak already.
Spoilers for Dragonsteel Prime
SpoilerHoid's is the "Growth" Dawnshard.
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Just now, alder24 said:
The Recreance happened directly after the imprisonment of BAM, they both happened at the same time. The WoB quite definitely eliminates this possibility.
"After" and "at the same time" are literally mutually exclusive. You're disproving your point in your own statement.
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1 minute ago, Argenti said:
The imprisonment of BAM happened shortly before the recreance.
Correct. The Reod and Imprisonment of BAM could have happened at the same time. I'm not saying it did, or that its even likely, but the WOB does not eliminate the possibility.
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23 hours ago, alder24 said:
Reod didn't happen at the same time as the Recreance and the imprisonment of BAM. Those events aren't related.
AkaBesd
Did the Reod coincide with the Recreance?
Brandon Sanderson
These two are not at the same time, but good question.
Worth noting that the Reod and Recreance not happening at the same time does not tell us anything as to how the Reod relates to the Imprisonment of BAM.
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On 3/26/2024 at 4:22 PM, Rorzikel said:
Re-shephir was previously trapped by a Lightweaver and has interactions with them as you say, as well as being compared to being a big creationspren when Shallan puzzles through possible interpretations. Under my theory, she would be a former cryptic and roughly a correspondence to the Lightweavers.
Sja-anat herself in RoW describes her Enlightening as being an aspect of the surge of Transformation. She would be an analogue to the Elsecallers and originally an Inkspren under my theory. I do not regard her capability to lie as strong evidence that she is a stronger comparison to the Lightweavers in the text than Re-Shephir or that two of the Unmade are both equally related to the Lightweavers because of deception.
Nergaoul would relate to the Dustbringers as a perfect ruby was used to capture him. He also works as an inversion of the Dustbringer oath given in the official listing on the ten orders on Dragonsteel's page, "I will seek self-mastery" through the reckless and uncontrollable state the Thrill creates.
Moelach, I don't have a strong opinion yet. Possibly the Truthwatcher analogue, but that intuition is formed only off the fact that the Truthwatchers may have a relation to Fortune. I'm not terribly attached to the placement.
Yelig-nar, whose gemstone given to Amaram in an earlier release was originally smokestone that became amethyst crystal and later in a revised rerelease had being amethyst to start with as well, I regard as a Willshaper analog. I've seen some attempts to categorize him as the WR due to his surge granting, but I feel those theories are based in the assumption that only Adhesion has relevance to Connection. That can be seen to be untrue with Venli in RoW speaking to the stones using cohesion.
Ba-Ado-Mishram, being immensely connective and yet the Unmade are explicitly stated by Brandon twice to not have a Bondsmith equivalent, would be corresponding to the Windrunners and originally an Honorspren.
Not to be pedantic or go on a tangent, but I'm not sure there were Honorspren when the Unmade came about. The SF only made 5 initially, and Syl bonded (her only other radiant as far as we know) close enough to the recreance that she was "asleep" and missed/was saved from it. It seems like he may have created her and the other four sometime between Aharietiam and the Recreance? Also, we know the mural in Urithiru depicts a Windspren instead of an Honorspren in the 10, which seems it would have reasoning behind it.
Largely though I agree, there are obvious parallels and Re-Shephir specifically has a strong connection to Shallan. However, Shallan also speculates that she may have been a Creationspren. But later speculates she may be searching for humanity that she lost, implying that she may have once been human.
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So just a few things to add here.
1) We have WOB saying the unmade would be considered "native"; however, this could just mean they were unmade on Roshar. That being said, the way BAM's imprisonment affected all of Roshar leads me to believe she at least is possibly more foundational to the planet than the others.
2) We do not know where Ambition was finally splintered. IIRC we do know Ambition fled Threnody and was eventually finally shattered elsewhere.
3) Yelig-Nar and Ba-Ado-Mishram specifically take naming convention from a different inspiration than the others. (Lovecraft rather than Semitic god/godesses.)
4) There is a good bit of interplay between Threnody, Ashyn, and Roshar through use of the word "Silence". Could be coincidence, but nonetheless.
5) Brandon has been coy enough with answers that we we can speculate the earthquake on Sel may have been a result of something that happened on Roshar. I don't think we have a precise enough timeline on the events of Elantris to pin point what it could have been, but the imprisonment of BAM could fit I think? If that were the case, we could probably speculate further on Yelig-Nar and Ba-Ado-Mishram having connections to Dominion and Devotion.
I think him taking shards of other conquered foes and making them "unmade" can make a lot of sense. We know he has kind of struggled to finding a good way to keep the investiture from being picked up or gaining sentience on its own, unmaking them and effectively making bargain bin avatars seems like a good solution for his needs. However, we also know that Roshar was made not long before the shattering. History repeating, time is a flat circle, etc... We see how Honor strategically made splinters of himself before he finally was shattered completely. Maybe Adonalsium did the same before his shattering, seems very plausible that Roshar could have held one or more splinters of Adonalsium before the shattering even happened. So that could be a source for some/all of the unmade as well.
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On 3/10/2024 at 7:29 AM, alder24 said:
Please do not necro-post - this topic is almost 3 years old, it's against the site's polity to revive threads that old.
The WoB you're referring to:
Fluffy (paraphrased)
When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?
Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.
Honorblades are self-aware but that's not the same as having the ability to talk - which they don't have. They aren't sapient.
I think it was a spren bonding with Szeth and talking to him. Szeth had to somehow know that a new Desolation is coming and who would know it better than a spren feeling it coming? The question then is what happened to that spren and their bond. I think the spren was either captured in a gemstone, or the bond was broken by Szeth's father, who had Ishar's Honorblade and Bondsmith's power. But if the bond was broken and spren wasn't imprisoned, where would they be now? They should bond someone else.
It just occurred to me how that chain of events, possibly, unfolded.
Szeth: The Voidbringers are coming back, and I can hear this spren who is trying to bond me.
Dad: You're a filthy liar. I'm naming you truthless and using my magical Bondsmith piece of god to bind you to a rock so you have to do whatever its holder tells you. No, you can't kill yourself either, that's too good for the likes of you.
Szeth: What about the magic sword?
Dad: Keep it, we will get it when you die. Be gone.
Father of the year award nominee right there.
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On 1/11/2024 at 7:54 PM, Lego Mistborn said:
Guys, this is Brandon we're talking about. We know he has hinted that Shallan is Chana's daughter, so either he is, or he wants us to think that she is so he can pull the rug out from under us with an amazing plot twist that makes perfect sense at the last moment.
There is no doubt that the evidence points to Shallan Chanasdotter though.
I'm definitely inclined to believe there is more at play than her just being her daughter. 4,500 years is a long time for 9 people to live and only have one child. Not that they couldn't have others running around, but it seems like it would come up at some point seeing as the implication is the children would have extraordinary abilities.
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Spoiler
Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above.
I think this one may actually refer to Ashyn. If you've read the excerpt from The Silence Divine, the storms would be the fire. They are "above" the floating city from the cities perspective, but the cities are also above the fires since the cities are upside down.
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I would also add the similarity between the chart and this chart of Yog-Sothoth. Kind of thought the similarly presented visualization may be a little easter egg, which may have more interesting implications since Ba-Ado-Mishram's and Yelig-Nar's names are inspired by Cythulhu Mythos deities.
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On 2/16/2024 at 9:23 AM, alder24 said:
Hello, welcome to the Shard. I would encourage you to use more punctuation because it's hard to read such long posts with little to none of it.
That wouldn't necessarily require a lot of investiture. What Vasher did, or rather that that girl did, was to store her memories in her Breath - innate investiture which is part of her soul. Heralds could potentially do the same, store their memories in their innate investiture (if possible, I find it unlikely), or in Breaths. Hoid does that already, he has only 200 Breaths which allow him to store memories of his entire life. But it has to be innate investiture, Breaths not Dor.
Questioner
Memory is tied to some level or portion of Spiritual Identity, or else Feruchemists would not be able to store it. So, Hoid lost memories at the end of Rhythm of War in his exchange with Odium. Would that mean part of his soul was stolen and then absorbed into Odium, and if so, what is stopping Odium from doing that with all of his enemies?
Brandon Sanderson
Basically, what Odium split off is stuff that Hoid is storing in excess Investiture. (Basically, it was Breaths, in Hoid’s case.) And this sort of thing, where this extra memory… One of the reasons that Hoid is able to function better than, perhaps, some other very long-lived individuals is: he has found out how to keep some of this Identity in, shall we say, SD cards made of Investiture. Imagine that sort of thing. So what Odium was stealing from Hoid was straight out of an SD card. Which means that it’s not nearly as deeply ripping into someone’s soul, and it is also not nearly as noticeable.
But the other thing is: Hoid is directly in violation of certain agreements that have been made, which therefore exposes him to… He is lacking protections. As you’ll notice in the end of Book Three, where he’s like, “I need to be careful, because I am in violation.”
And so, there’s a couple things going on here. Number one, much more easy to access those memories. Number two, Hoid’s in direct violation and under no protections of any sorts of agreements and things like this.
Unfortunately that's not enough. Taking their memories away might help but the problem lies within their souls. A human soul isn't made to last for thousands of years. And while you can take their memories away, you can’t take away that damage their soul suffered through thousands of years of torture. It will keep affecting them. Taking their memories will help, but won’t heal them. Heralds already know they can do such thing, Hoid told them, RoW ch 83-89 epigraphs:
Questioner
Why or how are the Heralds the only ones we've seen so far that are affected by magical maladies due to either their high Investiture or long lives?
Brandon Sanderson
I would argue the Fused are having the same situation, so they're not the only ones. The why and how... there's a whole host of things going on here. Like a lot of physical and mental illness, it's not one thing or the other. But it is a compound of other things.
One is going so long without certain protections that you kind of need to take. The human being's soul might be immortal, depending on your argument in the cosmere. (That's really up to you.) But they certainly aren't meant for thousands of years of existence, the same way that our bodies aren't. There's some of that.
There's some of the things they've been through. Like, legit trauma; this is not all simply a magical ailment. You've got people with PTSD, layers of PTSD on top of layers of PTSD, for thousands of years, bearing things that no human being without their level of Investiture would even be able to bear. You've got that manifestation, you've got their own sense of guilt.
And these things are all just kind of overlapping together with the fact they've been alive for so, so very long. And a lot of the people that you've seen otherwise have not been alive nearly... orders of magnitude more for the Heralds. The only people you've seen that are that old are: some of the dragons, Hoid, and Vessels of various Shards. And you're basically at that group. And this is a group who knows what they're doing. Either they were built like the dragons, this is part of their innate nature, that they are functionally immortal. Or you are getting the Shards. Or you're getting people that are 300 years old, which is a very different thing, cosmere-wise, than having lived for thousands and thousands of years, part of it being torture.
But Taln is actually happy with what Heralds did, he perceives this as a fantastic gift to humanity, time to recover. OB ch 119:
He's on vacation. He brought Nightblood to Roshar and now he's resting, feeding on Stormlight instead of souls. He ran away.
Questioner
So we already know that Vasher was Kaladin's trainer with a Shardblade, 'cause you told me that last time I asked you. So does Vasher just have a large mass of Biochromatic Breaths and that's how he's surviving, or is he somehow feeding off Stormlight while he is there?
Brandon Sanderson
He is feeding off of Stormlight, which is the primary reason why he came to Roshar. Investiture is easy to access in plentiful amounts.
Questioner
How did he know how to use Shardblades so well when he got there, is that related to how they created Nightblood
Brandon Sanderson
Yes, he has experience with Roshar from hundreds of years ago.
Vivenna is there searching for Nightblood and Vasher. OB ch 108&110:
Overall, helping Heralds to sort out their memories is a good first step, but that alone is not good enough, it won't heal their damaged soul.
On the Heralds and healing their madness.
TSM Spoilers.
SpoilerIn TSM we see that the Torment can be partially removed/weakened, and the same can be done for the Charred. The way it happens there is a bit of their soul, the bad bit ideally, being siphoned off.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if anything could accomplish something similar, it would be something that can and will literally drain your soul? They could do so by wielding it and letting it feed, but maybe an experienced enough wielder could specifically identify to NB which bits are "evil"? Just a thought, I don't see siphoning off a bit of their soul as something NB isn't capable of.
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I think it means what it says. Either our timeline is off and the heralds were made before the war, or the Odium/Honor swap happened after the Heralds. Either way, when it was made, Jezrien wasn’t using it to kill Thunderclasts.
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23 hours ago, CMac716 said:
My theory is that Honor died shortly before the False Desolation, his cog shadow and the largest portion of his power go to Stormfather as we know, but I think BAM scooped up the next biggest portion, enough to also ascend and become "a little god."
I think she was already the spren of Roshar before she was Unmade and thus connected to everything native (strictly going off the result of her imprisonment). She then binds herself to all the singers and tries to take her planet back from humans and Gods alike. Knights decide they have no choice but to lock her up in order to protect humanity.
Afterward, the guilt, fear, and the lack of Honors guidance all added up to abandoning their oaths as well.
I have a different but similar theory. Honor didn’t die, exactly, but Odium overtook him as a rhythm of Roshar. Futher speculation being a bondsmith took that bond from him. At this point, part of Roshar’s nature shifted from Honor to Odium. But, we know Odium’s soul is splintered, so he isn’t the sole source of his connection on Roshar. So, after, the imprisonment of Mishram was similar to what locking honor off from Roshar would have been prior to that point.
Further theory: El was Tanavast, and has been stripped of, or separated from, his rhythms and titles (his shard). Ishar is the binder of gods (plural). The Oathpact wasn’t just meant to confine Odium, it was to confine both Honor and Odium. This is why both Heralds and Fused are bound to Braise. The Recreance didn’t happen just because of knowledge of Ashyn, but because they learned this and that the conflict was both of them trying to break free of that bond by pushing one or the other into a contract. They realized, as Wit explains, they can only win by not playing.
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My input isn’t a rebuttal, more of a note. I don’t think it’s plausible that Cultivation could make him smarter than herself and, as a shard, she also has access to Fortune. So under your assumption, the logical take is that Cultivation pushed him toward this specific end. We also see indication that she gave him dumb days specifically to trick Odium.
QuoteStorms … Odium could be tricked. By dumb Taravangian.
I think the most interesting thing about smart Taravangian is that emotionally he is the opposite of Odium. Odium is passion, and smart Taravangian has none.0 -
Want to point out potential context misdirection, most read this and think “destroy us” means Roshar, but remember this is written by a sleepless. Roshar doesn’t need to be redeemed, it’s a planet and there is no reason to believe Roshar as a whole has failed. We don’t know what the sleepless may have done in the past, but we know the Radiants turned against them, and the Heralds abandoned them, so it isn’t a stretch to assume they did something that necessitates redemption.
So my opinion is this isn’t saying one of them will destroy Roshar, but one of them will destroy the Sleepless (or at least one(s)on Roshar). Also, they are essentially all connected. I think it’s plausible they could redeem one, and destroy another, and the prophecy still fit.
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The biggest loophole I see isn’t really a loophole. Dalinar’s encounter with Ishar shows us Ishar, or presumably Navani, can actually take the bond of the contract from Dalinar. And I think the more impactful implication is, if they can take it from Dalinar, they could also take it from Odium.
The other thing we know is that Dalinar “as the largest portion of Honor’s power” can release Odium from Honor’s bonds. So if one side wanted/needed, the other could actually release them from the contract.
To the baby theory, I’m increasingly convinced people are taking it too literally.
Quote“I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.”
This is referring to Nightblood. The suckling child is nightblood, (the use of him and it tells us the child is not whose throat the knife is held to) and the wielder has a metaphorical knife to someone’s throat. All they have to do is let the blade slip from its sheathe, it’s blood (black smoke/mist/investiture) spill over his hands and onto the ground. Nightblood feasts off the wielder when it runs out of investiture (breaths) to drink from its victims, letting it claim the target would give it and the wielder more breath to draw.
Szeth (I assume) is going to die because he refuses to unsheathe NB.2 -
16 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:
I think those Terris prophecies might not have originated on Scadrial and actually apply to multiple people across the cosmere. Dalinar and Vasher could also fit those criteria especially if you take into account Ruin having tweaked the original prophecy.
I agree, I actually think Dalinar fits some of the prophecy better than Sazed. Most of it that doesn’t include the Terris people, actually.
For example:QuoteHe was no simple soldier. He was a force of leadership - a man that fate itself seemed to support.
Quote"He shall defend their ways, yet shall
violate them. He will be their savior, yet
they shall call him heretic. His name
shall be Discord, yet they shall love him
for it."Quote"The Hero of Ages shall be not a man, but a force. No nation may
claim him, no woman shall keep him, and no king may slay him.
He shall belong to none, not even himself."
The phrase “a force” is used to describe shards and spren fairly often, and people in a few cases, but always people who are highly invested. The Lord Ruler, Vin, Kaladin by Moash in RoW. In TWoK Dalinar is the only person referenced as a force, well before he bonds the stormfather or Ascends in Oathkeeper.0 -
3 hours ago, ArchangelCaesar said:
So essentially he's becoming the Spirit of Imperialism? I saw another theory floating around that the "clash of cultures" that Brandon has described for Era 4 could easily be an exploration of intergalactic imperialism, and Discord, driven by Preservation (of Scadrial and it's culture) and Ruin (of other people's lives and cultures) could easily be a driver of this. So as you said, a very human Shard
This makes sense. Big America vibes from Autonomy: We are self governing and you should be too, in the way we deem appropriate. Supporting and orchestrating the upheaval of existing structure, then installing a system of government Autonomy approves of through her avatar. Even to the detail of her followers on world being chosen to lead the new system. If all else fails, invade directly.
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On 12/5/2022 at 3:40 PM, Ookla the Frustrated. said:
The Spoiler stream reveled that they have a magic system we have seen.
So a magic system we’ve seen, and an army that doesn’t need constant supplies. Sounds a lot like Awakening.
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I have a lot of thoughts on this, I’ll start with the text. We have two mentions of both discord and harmony in SA.
Quote“People are discord,” Syl said. “What does that mean?” “You all act differently and think differently. Nothing else is like that—animals act alike, and all spren are, in a sense, virtually the same individual. There’s harmony in that. But not in you—it seems that no two of you can agree on anything. All the world does as it is supposed to, except for humans. Maybe that’s why you so often want to kill each other.”
QuoteShe expected to hear whimpering or weeping—the only response she’d received over the last few days. This time she heard a strange tone, both harmonious and discordant at once. The Rhythm of War.
These are probably just nods to Mistborn, but the later being from RW makes me confident they are at least intentional. I think Discord is Sazed, but there is a chance this is a red herring. In that case, I would argue Taravangian has taken the name Discord, especially if he’s taken up another shard. His tone is referred to as Discord, people are referred to as discord, and the Singers claim Odium is the humans god. We know that to this point Odium has avoided doing that, but Taravangian is not Rayse and has had very little time for Odium’s intent to take over and drive the boat so to speak. He came to Roshar via refugees, and Horneater refugees are on the way to Scadrial. Discord could be nearer than we think.
Back to Harmony. In theory, Harmony shouldn’t really be possible for the shards Sazed holds, because they are not equal. When Preservation created Scadrial, he invested some of himself into all people. This leaves him inherently weaker than Ruin. Aside from the well, he countered this by making some of Ruins power coalesce physically - Atium. This is why Ruin couldn’t destroy the planet or act fully after Vin freed him, because he didn’t have the Atium hoard and therefore didn’t have all of his power.
Now we venture into some speculation, although I would argue well founded speculation. After the Catacendre, Sazed is Harmony. Which shouldn’t be possible, since ruin is stronger than Preservation, right? Except, there was Atium left from before, so Ruin was weakened and roughly the same strength as Preservation, allowing Harmony. The trouble being that Atium no longer forms naturally, as far as we know, Sazed apparently stopped this when he remade the world. And as we see in TLM, they have used all they had up keeping Marsh going. So essentially, over time as they use up the Atium that no longer reforms, Ruins power has returned to Sazed and he has steadily become more skewed toward ruin.Sazed shows us in the words of founding that he is very aware of how the Lord Ruler designed the world, and as a Terrisman he was well aware that he would be named Discord, so I seriously doubt his removing the Pits was an oversight. I suspect he has long planned to slowly become Discord, giving weight to him telling Kelsier he “has it all in hand” when Kelsier expresses concern. I think his Intent will still be driven by both Ruin and Preservation, but the door opens for more use of Ruin to ultimately Preserve. Essentially, as Syl implies, Sazed is becoming a God who can act like a human.
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UNITY
in Cosmere Discussion
Posted · Edited by Treach
I'm going to throw my speculation in the ring.
The conqueror's goal is to subject the conquered to their will. Unity requires sacrifice, in that everyone has to give up some of their own ideals, in order to come together under a single overarching purpose. Obviously, the implication in this case is likely bleak for Dalinar.