Sjsharks93

Yeah, Brandon's answer to me seemed like he had heard of the theory and was messing with fans

I think there needs to be sapience to truly become a Vessel. From looking through some WoB's, Brandon never outright says it, but he makes it seem like it would need to at least be something alive.

He does say that the power of a Shard left alone long enough will start to develop a consciousness similar to the Stormfather (although he has cognitive shadow weirdness going on too)

My theory would be that you would get something similar to Nightblood, a sentient object with the desire to fulfil it's intent 

3 minutes ago, I_am_a_stick said:

Do we know if these changes are permanent? Say Ati had given up the shard, would he eventually(or maybe instantly) return to normal?

Potentially? I think it would depend on how long the Vessel held the Shard. The only "Person" we know to have held a Shard and given it up without going to the great beyond is Kelsier, and he may not have had it long enough to make changes. IMO it would take almost as long to reverse any changes as it took to make them. 

The closest parallel we have is that we know Hoid held a Dawnshard at some point (although no clue how long or how long ago) and he is permanently changed by it (he can't hurt people or even eat meat.)

5 minutes ago, I_am_a_stick said:

Yeah, and some Vessels will completely disregard their Shards Intent. 

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Kelsier took Preservations power, and tried to destroy Ruin, but was basically unable to do anything..

And wow, I completely thought fortune was a shard. 

The Shards are more Brandon's ideas of what the aspects of the almighty would be broken apart. 

Also they can only ignore the Intent for so long before it begins to warp them. Ati was said to be a gentle man before Ruin warped him.

As for why Hoid didn't switch the blade, I think it is a respect thing. The Heralds are some of the few people in the Cosmere that Hoid really respects.

4 minutes ago, I_am_a_stick said:

It’s hard to tell what some of the Shards we haven’t really met yet are, like Fortune, but the comments above have pretty much summed up what I have to say about the Shards. Preservation wants everything frozen, nothing changing, Honor wants people to stick to their word, making and not breaking their oaths, etc.

Fortune is not a Shard, it is kind of a spiritual property that allows you to see into the future, among other things.

As for the question, it is a really good one. I think I mostly agree with the posts above, but seeing where people differ in opinion is fascinating. Each Vessel will view their Shard's intent differently, and that could change how they act overall

I would guess the enlightened spren have a little more intelligence than basic windspren. Kaladin specifically comments on windspren not being very smart, so I don't think they would make great spies. 

As for control of the plate spren, I see no reason Jasnah wouldn't be able to control them. Kal is just more focused on protecting others so he tries some different things

Along with the answer above, metalminds have a limited amount of space, and the smaller the metalmind the less space it has

At first, only 10 of your friends are allowed over. Then you torture them until one of them breaks and everyone else is allowed in. 

Or for a more realistic idea, you get one person to be your Wit and sit at the door and insult everyone as they come in.

I think a big difference here could come from the intentions of the Shards found on all sides of these conflicts. 

On Scadrial you have Preservation trying to fight off Ruin, but Preservation doesn't fight. That isn't in it's nature. It can't truly fight back against Ruin any more than it already has.

Honor and Cultivation (or at least the powers set up by them) don't have any problems like that. Both are willing to help fight, and have taken a much more direct hand in the fighting with the Radiants and the Heralds both being created as a way to specifically fight the forces of Odium.

And like you said, Odium didn't want to destroy the world. Even when we thought the sole goal of the voidbringers was to wipe out humanity, he still wanted a world to be left for his followers. Ruin is specifically trying to destroy everything, and he doesn't have any followers to leave anything behind for. And even if he did his very nature would make him want to destroy anyways.

7 hours ago, DramaQueen said:

Hi, welcome!! If you want to quote multiple posts, you can click the plus sign next to the "Quote" button and it'll let you quote as many posts as you want. But, yeah, double-posting isn't really allowed, it can clog up threads.

What's your favorite kind of hat?

Oops, my bad. The second person I responded to posted right as I did and I couldn't figure out editing in a new quote.

Favorite hat is a tough one, but let's go with a beanie. I'm not normally one for hats but will always throw one on if it gets cold enough!

While it would be interesting to see Brandon's take on a truly soft system, I wouldn't want it to be in the Cosmere. One of the things I love most about the Cosmere is that it has defined rules that make sense, and this is something Brandon seems to care about too. 

I could see Whimsy having a system with shifting rules and maybe even bending rules, but part of the Cosmere is that there are real rules that even Shards (maybe even especially shards) can't break.

I will add to this that Nightblood is an awakened solid object, and it cant do much on it's own. There might be one time it slightly unsheathes itself, but I haven't read Warbreaker in a while. Either way it has a command it badly wants to fulfil and it can't do anything alone.

14 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Well, Raboniel does imply that soul damage is the cause (or primary factor) of insanity in the Fused.

RoW Ch 113

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Navani gasped. “Raboniel?”

“You … lived. Good.” One of her hands twitched; it seemed that Moash had cut her with his Blade low enough that it hadn’t burned out her eyes, though one arm and both legs were obviously dead.

Navani raised her hand to her lips.

“Do … not … weep,” Raboniel whispered. “I … would have killed … you … to accomplish … my goal.”

“Instead, you saved me.”

Raboniel breathed in a shallow breath, but said nothing.

“We’ll meet again,” Navani said. “You will be reborn.”

“No. If I … die … I will return … mad. My soul … is burned … almost all away.… Do not … Please … Please…”

“What, then?” Navani said.

“This new Light … works. My daughter … is truly gone. So I made … more … anti … anti…”

“Anti-Voidlight. Where?”

Raboniel rocked her head to the side, toward her desk, situated in the hallway near the opening to the crystal pillar room. Navani rose and searched through the drawers, finding a black sack containing a diamond filled with the precious, terrible Light.

She returned and affixed the diamond to the dagger, which was wet with Moash’s blood. After cleaning it and reversing the metal strip, she knelt beside Raboniel.

“Are you sure?” Navani asked.

Raboniel nodded. Her hand twitched, and Navani reached over and held it, which made the Fused relax.

“I … have done … what I wished. Odium … is worried. He may … allow … an ending.…”

“Thank you,” Navani said softly.

“I never … thought … I would be sane … at the end.…”

Navani raised the dagger. And for the first time, she wondered if she was strong enough for this.

“I do wish…” Raboniel said, “I could hear … rhythms … again.…”

“Then sing with me,” Navani said, and began to sing Honor’s tone.

The Fused smiled, then managed a weak hum to Odium’s tone. Navani modulated her tone, lowering her voice, until the two snapped together in harmony one last time.

Navani positioned the dagger above the wound in Raboniel’s breast.

“End it … Navani…” Raboniel whispered, letting the song cease. “Make sure they let it all … end.”

“I will,” she whispered back, then—humming her best, holding the hand of a former immortal—Navani thrust the dagger in deep. Raboniel’s nerves had mostly been severed, so she didn’t spasm as her daughter had. Her eyes went a glassy marble white, and a breath escaped her lips—black smoke as her insides burned away. Navani kept humming until the smoke dissipated.

 

 

That is very interesting that it seems to be different for different people. Since we know that Hoid 

I guess you could add all the torture to the insanity of the Heralds too.

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I don't think we do. Hundreds of years at least, given that 

(Warbeaker)

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Vasher's been around for at least a couple hundred, and he doesn't seem to display any insanity like the Heralds

In any case, it also depends on the person, as Leshwi has managed to stay almost entirely sane, while others among the fused are entirely insane.

I had always assumed that (Warbreaker)

Although he may not be old enough for it to matter yet.

2 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Welcome to the Shard! What is your favorite book?

I have to go with WoR here. Amazing climax and the duel is probably my favorite scene in the Cosmere

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Welcome to the Shard! Who's your favorite Sanderson character?

Oh that's a tough one. Probably Teft, his whole arc really speaks to me. I also really like Breeze, and appreciate him helping in his own way.

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Well, Odium might not really care, and Honor might have been too busy fighting Odium/was already dead by the time it became a problem.

Yeah, that's fair. Do we know how long it takes for the mind to start to break? Like is it in the 100s of years or the 1000s

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Yep. Unless you count the insanity that comes from a long life, which seems to me to be similar to savantism. The Investiture required to be a cognitive shadow warps their souls.

Huh, this does bring up an interesting point. Why haven't the shards done anything to help here? We know that spren can't help with the insanity, because Nale is a Skybreaker and very insane. Unless he bonded his spren after his mind broke, which would really just make me judge the spren more.

Aux is very different from honorspren we know in a few ways, behavior, abilities, and of course naming. 

My theory for why is that Aux is an enlightened honorspren turned deadeye, and this is giving all sorts of weird powers.

Thoughts?

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

The Heralds and the Fused are probably protected from the negative effects of Savantism, as otherwise those who could soulcast would show obvious signs. The changes from savantism effect the soul, so unless the Heralds and Fused are completely shielded from the effects somehow, they should all be savants.

Yeah them being protected would make sense, seeing as how spren can prevent their radiants from the negative effects. I would assume Shards can do at least that much.

Would it be reasonable to assume that all of the Singers (and probably all of the Heralds) are savants, from the lifetimes of using their powers? Or would the changes that come be reset through each rebirth? I'm curious to get the thoughts of others.

I believe there is a WoB somewhere that says a Nahel bond can be stolen, but then you run into the issue of Spren being intelligent (and articulate) beings. They have the ability to break the bond still 

Edit: Found the WoB

On 5/24/2022 at 10:13 PM, alexyquest said:

Thanks for this! I wonder if there are nonbinary kandra, or if any Cosmere characters have been confirmed to be nonbinary. 

The Sibling is the only character I can think of off the top of my head

Qui-Gon is a cognitive shadow confirmed