Thor

Another very good idea. Anyone with more knowledge than I want to take a crack at this idea? Very good point. Makes sense. Though there is something that has always bugged me about Marsh: why does Ruin give Marsh the largest number of spikes? (Assuming that makes him the most powerful Inquisitor, which is probably true.) I suppose more spikes makes it easier for Ruin to control him; Marsh seems to be one of the few (or only member of the) Inquisitors that is even mildly successful at resisting Ruin. However, that doesn't sound like something Ruin would do...he feels pretty confident that no one can break his grip, so that reason falls short. The best answer I've been able to come up with is that Marsh was the strongest Misting (out of the Inquisitors that Ruin had; Marsh killed so many of them at the end of TFE) and there were no Mistborn Inquisitors left (getting a boost to every metal on a weak Mistborn should be stronger than a boost to every metal on a strong Misting, given what we know about Hemalurgy,) making it more likely that, as Marsh is the strongest of the Inquisitors, there aren't any Mistborn Inquisitors during the events of WoA and HoA. Also, Marsh can burn Atium, and he could be one of the few Inquisitors who can burn Atium, since he was created during TLR reign when Atium (and therefore Atium spikes) was more accessible. Being able to burn Atium would give Marsh a large boost in status over other Inquisitors, perhaps enough to warrant him gaining all of the spikes. This hypothesis, of course, only applies if Ruin follows a certain ideology: you add every increase you can to the strongest base person in a fight. This makes sense in a world with people who come close to being deific avatars fighting over the fate of the world: Vin (later Elend) and Marsh. Unfortunately this idea also seems to fall short: if the Inquisitors were used as a commando/assassin/battlefield elite force (under Ruin; they obviously served a different role under TLR), Bronze is practically worthless, since Ruin comes close to being Omniscient with regard to Allomancers (he senses a Coppercloud burning metal and sends Marsh to steal his powers during one of the Marsh chapters in HoA), making the ability to find Mistings/Mistborn under Copperclouds redundant or unnecessary. If the Inquisitors were to be used in these roles, it would make the most sense (using that ideology above), for a Mistborn-Inquisitor to be the recipient of the most spikes and, in the event that a MB could not be found/corrupted, a more combat oriented Misting would be a superior choice than Marsh, a Seeker: Pewter, Steel, Iron or even Tin would be quite powerful with the extra boosts from Allomancy and Feruchemy... -(This deals with Chaos' theory on Allomantic strength dilution, especially with regards to Copperclouds and Seekers) Just thought of a possible reason why a Lerasium MB (specifically Elend) isn't as strong as TLR, or even an Inquisitor/Vin doubling up on Bronze: after Vin is captured, Elend leaves Fadrex and fights a group of Koloss. If he could pierce Copperclouds, he should have been able to identify that an Inquisitor (or regular MB) WAS there but left during the battle (in the annotations, Brandon says that Marsh was there directly controlling the Koloss, not Ruin.) However, Elend doesn't see/sense an Inquisitor and assumes that the Koloss were just rampaging around (I believe he later attributes this to Ruin.) As Marsh does not have a super Coppercloud (due to him not being a Smoker before his transformation, and assuming he doesn't have multiple Bronze stealing spikes (which we don't know if they stack, AFAIK),) he should be much weaker than Elend in this regard (Elend's Bronze vs Marsh's Copper), which, if Chaos' theory is correct, should allow Elend to pierce his Copperclouds. Feel free to poke holes in this...I can see a few but I don't feel like pointing them out right now.

We assume they are exaggerated because of the Ministry (and TLR himself). But when you take into account the burning of a Gold Metalmind for exponential increases in healing, combined with Savant level Pewter, some of those seem more possible. I agree wholeheartedly on the decapitation though (like anyone could restrain him anyway.) I think the phrase used for the burning story was (paraphrasing...) "almost a skeleton." If he still had his brain mostly intact, the Savant-level abilities of Pewter might have been sufficient to keep him alive. Spook could run through a burning building, get horrific third-degree burns and still survive, without Pewter. (Normally the pain would have caused someone to pass out and die, but, for TLR, Pewter reduces pain...idk) Flaying sounds survivable too, though this brings up the question: "How did you manage to restrain a Savant Lerasium Mistborn, with Feruchemy?" 'Tis fine. I'm just glad I was able to get any responses to this. I knew I was a Soother! Psh, make Marsh blabber, I can get TLR of the Forums himself to blabber! Muwhahahaha!! ...Wow, I can't believe I forgot the difference there. *headdesk* [math] I think a really good way to describe this would be, depending on an upper bound or not, a math function that has an infinite limit but increases very slowly the farther it goes (a square root function is a pretty good example: fast gains at the beginning but tapering off to barely any gain the higher one goes) or a function that has a finite limit that is approached very slowly (equation would be something like y=[-1/(x+1)]+1 which has a limit of 1, but only reaches it at infinity.) [/math] EDIT: The only reason why Vin got even close to controlling Ruin-Marsh was with the pure power of Preservation: the Mists; a Duralumined-Soothing came close, but wasn't enough. That was the reason, I felt, why Ruin felt afraid; he could sense that Vin had used part of Preservation to try and take control of Marsh. The fact that she wasn't able to control Marsh with the Duralumined Soothing could be attributed to the fact that Ruin was occupying Marsh at the time, however. End EDIT TLR should have definately finished off Vin much faster, but, as you said, he didn't see her as a threat. I think being called Rashek for the first time in ~900 years probably stunned/surprised him pretty badly. Same reason he didn't just Pull his bracers back after Vin ripped them out and shot them off of the spire...which is probably the biggest plot hole in TFE. (Unless the bracers are what gave him Allomancy...) Good point about Marsh. Though TLR is ridiculously strong; he may have injured Marsh more than his reduced power Feruchemy could heal in a short time. In that quote it states that TLR kept too tight of a grip, which does not imply complete control (debatable, again.) I'm not sure if Ruin could have taken control of an Inquisitor while he was trapped; his cage would have probably blocked him from taking over an Inquisitor (though he could probably speak to them and influence their ideas) and TLR kept a pretty tight rein on the Inquisitors emotions, as has been mentioned (if not complete control. Just throwing in my doubts on TLRs complete control over Inquisitors.) Curse you (non) spoilers!!!! (Hurrah, Chaos will tell all!!) Also, I laughed a lot to "Control Inquisitors, like a boss!" Hhahaha (Someone should totally make a "Most Interesting Man in the World" poster about controlling Hemalurgic creations: I don't usually take control of Ruin's minions, but when I do, I control Inquisitors.) Ah, thank you for that. Edit: I searched the Annotations and couldn't find it, though I vaguely remember something similar to that statement...can someone find it? Maybe it is from the HoA thread... | | V

Spoilered response to Chaos for length...it's freakin' huge!!

I believe that he did indeed say that...but if TLRs most extreme abilities came from Hemalurgy, what could they be? Immortality is just a combination of Allomancy and Feruchemy (and is one of the "signature" abilities of TLR, quite possibly the most impressive one...though a person might need enhanced Atium ability to get enough Age from the Feruchemical battery for immortality), and as Brandon says in that quote: "What they didn't realize is that atium (used correctly) could steal ANY of the powers." Extra emphasis on "any." This seems to suggest that an Atium spike could only steal one power at a time (open to interpretation; the spike could steal every power from a Mistborn, then the only power that would manifest would depend on the binding location...we just don't know enough about Hemalurgy to say that Atium can only steal, and grant, one power at a time.) Another problem with the Hemalurgy idea: in that annotation that zas quoted, we get a different version on Hemalurgy's influence on TLR: "Mixing Feruchemy and Allomancy [is] what made the Lord Ruler so formidable." So are these two quotes in opposition? or is Brandon suggesting that Hemalurgy is what allowed the Lord Ruler to combine Feruchemy and Allomancy? That, of course, begs the question: what supernatural abilities ARE due to Hemalurgy? Allomantic Strength: More possible than I originally thought, but see above. Immortality: Unsure if this is possible by a combination Mistborn(or Seer)/Feruchemist(or Atium Feruchemist) or if it requires a Hemalurgic spike to get the necessary power... Compass Points to Luthadel: In the annotations, Brandon states that this is due to the WoA, not TLR. (This isn't very amazing but Brandon did include it as a "Power" attributed to TLR by the Ministry.) Feruchemy: Was a Feruchemist prior to his ascension; may have been enhanced by Hemalurgy? Koloss Control: Any powerful Mistborn/Misting (or group of weaker MB/MT) can do this... (Another "Power" ascribed to TLR by the Ministry.) Any other "unique" powers/abilities? Another idea just came to mind: suppose a Feruchemist could not become an Allomancer by eating a Lerasium bead and the WoA does not grant Allomantic powers... That would support the idea that Hemalurgy is what allowed TLR to combine Feruchemy and Allomancy... This also gives the unfortunate implication that TLR had someone eat a Lerasium bead, then killed him with the Atium bracers to steal the unfortunate persons newfound Allomantic powers...if this is what happened, I smell something that rhymes with bruin...

I've always thought that an Assassin's Creed/Force Unleashed hybrid game would work beautifully for the Mistborn universe. Assassin's Creed for it's open-endedness, style(someone could totally make a mod out of one of the larger cities as Luthadel), and certain aspects of gameplay (3rd person is totally the way to go for a Mistborn game, hiding, parkour style of movement, and to some extent combat) and the Force Unleashed for it's over-the-top Force powers, "mana" system, and 3rd person mode again. Fighting in general would be similar to that of Assassin's Creed, though more streamlined, with reaction-based attacks. When you activate any of the more common metals, you have a time bar that slowly depletes and then regenerates afterwards (from Force Unleashed) and for the rare metals (mostly atium) you start with a limited amount of the metal at the beginning of the scenario; it doesn't recharge but you can obtain more of it during the course of the mission (which are open-ended for the most part so if you wish, you can run/jump around Luthadel for hours on end and then go back to the plot of the game.) Metals: Copper - Would be on almost constantly, though some scenario's might require you to go without any Allomancy or with a reduced amount of Copper, forcing one to use it carefully around other MB, Seekers and Inquisitors. Bronze - Pulses are heard through the speaker system and possibly a vibration in the controller if it is on a console. There may also be a visual "pulse" emanating from the source (a colored concentric circle shape would probably work best, as it wouldn't interfere with the blue lines of Steel/Iron.) Pewter - Might be able to flare this for additional strength, jump height and balance, but is otherwise passive; it would allow one to run faster, jump higher, recover quicker and stay balanced on narrow objects. Tin - When it is on you can see through mist (duh), see everything in sharper detail and one can flare it to zoom in on the direction one is looking. Brass/Zinc - Mainly for social interactions ala a Bioware/Obsidian style RPG and possibly for use against Koloss (if they ever entered the game) Steel/Iron - Ah the hard ones...I like Silus' idea for a generally passive ability, movement wise: if you can push/pull on something in that direction then the game will do the selecting for you, you just need to choose a direction that has enough metal to push/pull on, and if there won't be enough metal, you will be able to see the reduction in blue lines and either: turn around, stop and hover with anchors (possibly show your character throw down a coin or two if you stop moving, then pull them back to your hand as you start to move again) or continue going and drop in an arc to the ground/rooftop/etc. You can stop Pushing/Pulling on metals by deactivating Steel/Iron and then drop to the ground at any time so you can drop on a roof and then enter through a door in the roof (of your hideout, if you are part of the Rebellion, for instance.) For combat...um, something similar to telekinetic Force powers? You will be able to see the blue lines (or lack thereof) and know whether or not you can push/pull other characters/objects or one could shot coins from a pouch at opponents. You could also have some ability to boost a jump in combat by Pushing/Pulling on a metal object... Gold - Uh...plot device? Atium - Slows down everything but you (and other Atium users, obviously) and creates shadows based off of the future movements, as calculated by the in-game computer (wouldn't work for a multiplayer game...you might have to go with increased movement and attacking speed ala Jedi Outcast/Academy multiplayer.) For opponents also burning atium, shows multiple shadows and they travel at normal speed. Any other metal - Could be added, probably wouldn't be too hard, though by adding the other metals (other than Duralumin and Electrum), you would have to change the time period that the game takes place in (or break the current plot structure.) Being able to play as a Feruchemist or, heaven forbid, an Inquisitor or Feruchemist/Allomancer hybrid, could also be incredibly fun (and painful for the game designers.) No, I haven't thought about this a lot. The OPs remark about playing as a Shardbearer being boring: just think of it as being a Dynasty Warriors type of game...actually, Dynasty Warriors would fit very well with any medium to large scale battles in the Roshar universe: Shardbearers would be the leaders of groups, and Windrunners or any of the other orders of the Knight's Radiant as they become more common could also fulfill this role...dang, that sounds really fun...

I can't believe I forgot to check that... While the atium bracers were spikes, we do not know what an atium spike steals, and therefore cannot make any reasonable conjectures on what they do...I will fix the OP about that... Edit: (fixed OP on Atium bracers)

Very, very possible. Probably the most likely out of the ideas (either more likely or tied with the extra beads of Lerasium/WoA theories.) Though he doesn't seem to sport the adverse effects that are normally (as far as we know...we have really only seen one Savant) associated with Savants...I suppose this could be due to being a Savant of every single (common) metal: Spook was less light/noise/touch sensitive after he was spiked with pewter...sigh, I even had this idea (or at least part of it) in my head, but threw it out because of the adverse consequences that Savants experience... It is also possible that TLR didn't/doesn't need to flare his metals at all (or very rarely; he appears to flare his metals only a handful of time in TFE) making it unlikely for him to be a Savant (since, if I recall correctly, becoming a savant requires constant overflaring.) However, we know almost nothing about his life, especially the few hundred years post-ascension, and he might have been constantly flaring his metals during the years where he conquered most of the world, as no one could have know about an Allomancer becoming a Savant.

Eh, didn't really see a topic devoted to this and it has been sitting in my brain for a year or so, might as well go big or go home on the first post (and I have apparently made another post before, oh well)...big wall of text incoming... I was thinking about the Lord Ruler's relative Allomantic strength (in comparison to the other Mistborn in the series) and he seems to be ridiculously stronger than any of them, even Elend (after eating the Lerasium nugget obviously.) He can soothe upwards of a hundred thousand people, casually slaps Kelsier into unconsciousness, can "deal" with every Skaa in Luthadel, controls every Koloss in the FE, can soothe/riot through Copperclouds, can "smother" Vin through her Coppercloud, and he can push on the metals inside of a person's body. Comparisons: Soothing 100k (without Duralumin: TLR is soothing during the entire execution scene in the first book): Breeze, who says he is one of the most powerful Allomancers in the FE (to be taken with a grain of salt; it is Breeze after all,) can only soothe 300 people at once. Unfortunately we cannot compare this to Elend; he never soothes or riots any large group of people with a quantifiable amount. He does soothe ~20k Koloss but this is with Duralumin and taking control of Koloss is different than merely soothing/rioting humans (we also never observe TLR soothing/rioting to take control of Koloss.) Slapping Kelsier: While this may be attributed to Feruchemical Pewter, TLR does not bulk up while slapping Kelsier (as opposed to Sazed during the fight for Luthadel, who becomes so muscular he is nearly as large as a Koloss), and he is described during the fight with Vin and Marsh as being "well-muscled" but not freakishly muscled, as one would expect with ridiculous amounts of Strength being tapped from a metalmind (I take this as meaning that TLR looks very fit, like a professional athlete in a strength-based sport, American Football, Rugby, etc., but not on the order of an Arnold Schwarzenegger bodybuilder) It is also interesting to note that Kelsier is, presumably, also burning pewter during this time. "Dealing" with the Skaa population of Luthadel: When told that the entire city of Luthadel (population est. 1 million or so), he tells Tevidian that after the current situation, he will "deal with it." Vin also feels that TLR could slaughter the entire population, because he would never tire. TLR also states that he has dealt with uprisings before and defeated armies on his own (these statements should be taken with skepticism, as TLR is known for tooting his horn.) This can also be attributed to the combination of his Feruchemical and Allomantic abilities (ridiculous healing factor, superstrength from multiple sources, tirelessness, precognition, superspeed are only part of the abilities that could be brought to bear by TLR in an extended fight.) Controls Every Koloss in the FE: As there are no (reported) Koloss attacks on civilizations (that weren't ordered by TLR himself) we can assume that the entire Koloss population in the FE is controlled by TLR. The total number of Koloss in the FE is unknown before TLRs death, however, it is probably safe to assume it is at least 100k, if not more (Elend has an army of ~40k Koloss during HoA, with many other bands marching around controlled by Inquisitors and Ruin; the final battle suggests that there are close to a million Koloss attacking the Pits of Hathsin and other, smaller but of a similar size, groups attacking Fadrex and other outlying cities.) Elend feels that he cannot reliably control the 40k Koloss in the army (may be attributed to Elend's unfamiliarity with Koloss and Allomancy in general, so this point is one of the weaker ones.) Can Soothe/Riot Through Copperclouds and "Smother" Through Copperclouds: During the execution scenes and any time the Crew is near Kredik Shaw, Vin notices that she can easily feel TLRs Soothing through her Coppercloud. (without Duralumin), and even with Kelsier and her Rioting the other members of the crew, they can still feel his soothing. When she attacks TLR in his throne room in Kredik Shaw, he needs only flare his brass to punch through her Coppercloud. and create a feeling of despair/nothingness similar to the effect a Duralumined Soothing has on Straff Venture (with no Coppercloud.) Can Push on Metals Inside of a Person's Body: During the fight with Marsh and Vin, TLR slams Vin into the wall of the throne room by pushing on the Allomantic beads inside of her, and possibly the naturally occurring metals in her body (depending on how you interpret Vin's thoughts). Even with Duralumin, Vin cannot pull on metals inside of another person (I believe she tries it on an Inquisitor in HoA) and she needs the literal power of Preservation (the mists) to pull out the bracers of TLR and spikes out of Marsh/other Inquisitors. From looking at the above examples, even if one throws out a few examples (some do not have very good supporting points), TLR seems to be ridiculously strong at Allomancy. As such, we need to figure out how he does this (because we are inquisitive types.) A few situations, in order of their possibility (IMHO) are listed below: TLR is using Hemalurgy to increase his Allomantic strength: Incredibly unlikely, if not impossible, as Vin/Marsh/Sazed did not find any Hemalurgic spikes in TLR after he died (it would almost certainly been mentioned if they had found any spikes.) While the Atium bracers he used were Hemalurgical in design, we do not know what power/ability Atium spikes steal, so we cannot, with a respectable amount of skepticism, assume that the bracers increased his Allomantic power. TLR is NOT stronger than any other Lerasium Mistborn: Almost certainly untrue, as Elend Venture doesn't show the ridiculous power that TLR has, mainly Soothing/Rioting numbers. Unfortunately, we do not see enough of TLR or Elend's true strength to make a proper comparison, but the sheer amount of people that TLR can Soothe/Riot suggests otherwise. TLR is fueling his Allomantic powers with Feruchemy (the opposite of the Atium Immortality Trick): Unlikely, as the big thing with the AIT is that the burning of a Feruchemical battery creates the expected Allomantic response (DISCLAIMER: We never "see" the effects of burning a Feruchemical battery during the novels, but I believe this to be the case, as the sense of "a power that is just out of reach" is the same for both a Feruchemist attempting to use another Feruchemist's battery and an Allomancer burning a Feruchemical battery), but an exponential return on the Feruchemical Attribute that was stored in the battery. However, we do not have a complete knowledge of the relationship between Feruchemy and Allomancy so this could be the case. TLR gained his super Allomantic strength by possessing (and using) the Power of The Well of Ascension: Likely. The "and using" part of the description is especially important, otherwise Vin would have experienced an extreme power boost after holding, and then releasing, the Power at the WoA. This is a very possible explanation for his power level, since the use of the Power would certainly increase one's connection to Preservation (which is, I believe, to be explicitly stated as the measure of one's Allomantic strength, which is how a Lerasium nugget grants a person the powers of a Mistborn.) However, the Power, and expanded conscious, which comes from holding the Power decreases over time, perhaps to the point where it disappears completely (this is the only flaw, that I can see, in this idea; it can be "overcome" by stating that the connection to Preservation remains, just the Power of Creation disperses over time.) TLR ingested multiple beads of Lerasium at once, theoretically multiplying his Allomantic strength: Likely. The current "exact" count of Lerasium beads is 11 (or 12) (1 for Elend, 9/10 for the "original ten Allomancers," and 1 for TLR. The 9/10 is dependent on whether or not one counts TLR as one of the "original ten Allomancers": If he is, then there are 10 beads for the "ten," 1 for TLR and 9 for the others. If he isn't a member, then there are 10 beads for the "ten" and one more for TLR.) This number can be increased to 12(13) if it is assumed that Hoid took a bead during the events of WoA (the thread for this idea is on here somewhere...) This leaves, if we assume a total of 16 beads (makes sense, no?), anywhere between 5 and 3 unaccounted beads. If TLR ate these extras, it could be an explanation for his increased Allomantic strength. (This is the single idea that I like the most) Any of the above together: I find this most likely with the previous two ideas: multiple Lerasium beads and any leftover connection from the WoA would fit together nicely. The other ideas aren't supported well enough to be taken alone, let alone together. Any other ideas, comments, etc? And this is only the beginning, if I can get myself to post (at all)...

My two cents: In one of Marsh's viewpoint scenes in HoA, when he spikes Penrod, he explicitly states that he is tapping from one of his hemalurgic spikes, which "...doubled as Feruchemical [metalminds]." Hopefully, I'm not being a necromancer by doing this...since it is on first page and not too old...