.png.d41b1ca865930ccf5f63b08a839f908e.png){kind=logo}
11thTrueSpren
-
Posts
3 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
News
Forums
Blogs
Gallery
Events
Posts posted by 11thTrueSpren
-
-
So I have been thinking quite a bit on this topic for some time. Throughout all four books out so far, Kaladin and Lirin have been at odds on how to protect. I think Lirin actually would have been a 5th ideal Windrunner from the get-go if he had bonded an Honorspren. Essentially, Lirin has been trying to teach Kaladin the four ideals of the Windrunners throughout The Way of Kings. For example:
In the first portion of tWoK, Lirin always talking about protecting people. He has been adament about protecting others through not killing. This sets up the theme of protecting others - the 2nd oath
Later on when Roshone is lying on the surgery table dying, Lirin has the opportunity to either let Roshone die, or sever his femoral artery and kill him outright. He chooses not to do this because it was not right. As a surgeon, Lirin saves/protects those he hates - 3rd oath.
The flashback chapter Scarlet from Kaladin’s perspective when he is trying to save a little girl. She ends up dying as he is trying to save her and this impacts him severely as seen later in the chapter. In this chapter, Lirin explains to Kaladin that he will grow calluses, and that he needs to accept that he can’t save everyone - 4th oath
The 5th oath was foreshadowed in the chapter Wandersail. This comes in the early part of the chapter when Maps dies and Kaladin is unable to save him. Kaladin hears Lirin’s voice saying “You have to learn when to care.” I think that this is foreshadowing the 5th oath of the Winderunners. Despite Kaladin having accepted that he can’t save everyone, how does he choose when to save someone and when not to? A number of posts on this topic have alluded to this point as well. This could be seen as a leadership attribute as well: when do we retreat and when do we press the attack? This seems to at least be a logical step for Kaladin to understand how to protect someone. He has accepted he can’t save everyone, but how does one choose when to save someone and when to let them go and save yourself? This could also be symmetrical as some posts have talked about. He has previously committed to protecting those who can’t protect themselves. This will help him choose when to protect if there are multiple people who need saving and that Kaladin needs to choose.
So my thought for the 5th oath is something along the lines of knowing when to protect and when to let go.
3 -
So Tanavast is dead, however the time of his death is what would be in question. In the WoB below, Brandon states that the death of the vessel is a “slow burn”, but that is pretty vague. Brandon also states that he is dead “as of the start of The Way of Kings.” So this could be any time between the splintering of Honor all the way to the death of Gavilar, which is approximately 2000 years.
spoilered for length
SpoilerWetlander
Did the Splintering happen before the Recreance?
Brandon Sanderson
I will reveal this as we go. However, be aware that in the past, when a Shard was killed, the person holding it, it is a slow burn to actually kill someone; because power cannot be destroyed. So, what it means to be killed means something a little different in these cases.
Hoser
Did Tanavast survive Honor's splintering?
Brandon Sanderson
Tanavast is dead. Good question. However, that is as of the start of The Way of Kings.
Hoser
So he could have survived the Splintering...
Brandon Sanderson
He could have survived the Splintering.
Hoser
...as a mortal...
Brandon Sanderson
Well, he could have survived for a time, but then he could not have then...
Hoser
...passed away in his sleep...
Brandon Sanderson
Right.
However, what would be interesting to find out is if Tien or Oroden would also be considered a “Son of Tanavast” according to the Stormfather. This would at least rule out if Kaladin is the biological offspring of Tanavast or if Kaladin is the “spiritual embodiment” of Honor and Tanavast that he could be considered the Son of Tanavast from the Stormfather’s perspective. The Stormfather’s perspective will be much wider than a human can perceive since humans can’t see into the cognitive realm without having a Nahel bond. The Stormfather is also melded with the cognitive shadow of Tanavast, which would make things weird when talking about the biological offspring of Tanavast. My thought regarding Kaladin being the Son of Tanavast is that he is the spiritual embodiment of Tanavast as Kaladin has been described by Brandon Sanderson as being “extra aligned” with the intent of Honor.
SpoilerNouf
What does it mean that Kaladin is close to Honor, and how did that factor into him staying conscious while every other Windrunner in the tower didn't?
Brandon Sanderson
The nuts and bolts answer is, Kaladin basically was in a place where he could say the next oath, and should have said the next oath, and indeed knew the next oath, and it was on his tongue, and he refused to. So basically he was as close to being the next level of Knights Radiant as a person could humanly get, because everyone considered him ready except himself. He even knew that he was ready, but by saying it, it would require him to give up something that was precious to him, which is his feeling guilty. A precious part of his identity as he saw it. And he would have to relinquish that. That's the bulk of it.
The other bulk of it is, the level to which Kaladin tries to protect, the level to which Kaladin exemplifies the Ideals of the Windrunners, and indeed of the way that Honor would have all Knights Radiant act, is so over the top, in alignment with the way Honor would like it to be, that it could even be considered unhealthy. Remember, Honor didn't always encourage healthy relationships with things like the power, particularly later in his existence. So either way, Kaladin is just kind of extra aligned with that intent, if that makes any sense.
YouTube Livestream 23 (Dec. 17, 2020)3
[Discuss] Windrunner 5th Ideal
in Stormlight Archive
Posted
Who is “Alieni”?