DoctaDajman

Does Taln have his Honorblade back and if so when did he get it back and do we know anything about its journey specifically?  

Kind of getting into the Stone Shamans and a new curiosity has been piqued. 

Thanks a ton my 17thshard homies!

How physical do you think a peakspren is in the physical realm?  

Are they limited by walking or can they enter any rock and appear out of any other rock?  

At 3rd ideal a radiant can summon a blade from anywhere and the spren transports instantly... can a peakspren be moved via thought sooner than that? 

A slinger... with a peakspren.  Could they use the spren as a projectile?  

I know there are instances of radiants throwing their shards. 

Im trying to think of the best options on a ranged sort of shard weapon. 

I think throwing knives, javelin, axes etc. would work just fine but as an avid archer I am curious about an arrow shape. 

How does the javelin throwing of shards work cutting the soul? How would an arrow work? Does it have to hit the spine or does it just destroy any organ it hits? While not severing the spine, nearly any torso hit would likely pass through at least one vital organ. But how fast will that kill an enemy?  A gut shot could take a long long time to kill. 

I say arrow because I assume it cant be made into a functioning bow. And even if it could its the arrow that cuts not the bow itself right? 

Wouldnt this offer so much more range and projectile speed compared to the others. I dont imagine mass matters so much when you sever all living souls and non living with ease. 

How well would it work for the spren to form and reform over and over again in the ideal arrow shape?  

Also... do shards all weigh less out of choice or is it the fact of the metal they are formed from regardless?  

I ask because it wouldnt ve the arrow you have to worry about breaking or retrieving in this case but your bow needs to be sturdy enough to launch it. Perhaps this would allow you to shoot a laughably low poundage option and get all the same effectiveness as far as penetration goes? 

Could it seperate Harmonium into Lerasium and Atium.

7 hours ago, Returned said:

You've mentioned Awakening a few times in non-Nalthian contexts across a few threads. I think that the key element of Awakening is the endowment aspect: you have extra power (Breaths), give that power some intention and guidance (Intent and the Command), and then the power moves into an object that tries to express that intention and guidance. Lightweaving, even the the potentially mass-granting kind, is sort of the opposite: you have the idea of seeming to do something, you Connect with that idea, and then create a phantasm that expresses the idea with which you've connected. It's not clear that the faint mass of a Lightwoven illusion can be used to do much of anything; the only example we have is the vague sensation in an observer of the illusion being struck.

Even if we were to grant that the illusions can interact with real objects directly, it's the difference between pushing your intentions and power into another thing which might fail to carry out your objective and creating an illusion that can't do anything other than what you want it to seem like it's doing. Awakening is transitive: it absolutely requires an object, but can do all sorts of things from that starting point. Lightweaving does not require an object, and in a lot of ways couldn't use one even if it were available.

I'll agree that we haven't seen anywhere close to the limit of what Lightweaving can do, but it is distinct from Awakening in this regard and I'm hesitant to suggest that they overlap here, even though so many Cosmere magics do overlap with one another quite a bit. It's not clear that anything like the flexibility that creates an autonomous being, like Nightblood or Azure's sword, is achievable through Lightweaving. I will be disappointed if Lightweaving leads to "conjure a self-aware, self-determining being from nothing without anything beyond Investiture and Intention" being available to anyone with sub-Shardic power and knowledge, though a good story around that could be pretty interesting.

I appreciate how you break down awakening. I guess in my mind I have oversimplified it so much that it isnt fair to the Nalthian version of the types of biochromatic entities. 

I know that nothing on Roshar is making awakened objects where these things that were dead or inanimate are now acting on their own due to some form of endowed power. We know true awakened objects even have the capacity to see and sense the world around them. Im certainly not suggesting that Vivenna's cloak is achievable by anything Roshar. 

I am finding plausible ways to create, through surges, scenes that I envisioned would only be possible through awakening and I guess that is why I so often use the term awakening or pseudo awakening for.  

For example... Im now introducing my kid to all of the marvel movies, and while this is likely a lame example I am a total nerd and this imagery is stuck! The Doc Ock or iron Spider arms. For a long time I thought 20,000+ breaths was the only way it would ever happen through cosmere magic. To have extra long arms pop up around the user and carry them around as well as shield or attack enemies would be epic. But the 9th heightening to awaken metal is unachievable I dont even feel good about assigning it to a character in my own mind. 

So awakening from that sense... having 4 extra limbs made of metal or rope that are capable of being controlled and moved around. Ironically I think, in this sense, the evil Doc Ock where the arms take over is far more of a risk with traditional awakening because if you awaken metal it becomes alive and sentient and has its own ideas and will... the only thing that stops Nightblood from destroying half of the population over night is that he has to be held to do so. How would you control truely awakened Doc Ock arms? 

But if Tension is able to cause a steel rod or cables to undulate and be controllable by the users mind that achieves the same goal. If lightweaving a disguise around myself that looks like arms and suddenly that lightweaving carries mass then I can use those arms in the same way, again maintaining control. 

So yeah. It probably isnt fair to classify this as awakening. Nothing is being awakened and given life. But the manipulation and control you have over it has me very excited. 

It still makes me feel icky that they are surges. Roshar gets all of the good stuff. 

I can make a doc ock inspired character that wont lose control of its arms, doesnt cost 20,000 lifetimes worth of resources, and can heal instantly from getting their throat slit or having their tongue cut out. 

As much as awakening is still likely my favorite system, this just outshines it and bonding a spren is far more likely than getting a medium cities worth of people to hand over their life force. 

58 minutes ago, Qianweilian said:

In Oathbringer, it says it turns out that Shallan wasn’t using Transformation for her illusions.

 

Also, browsing this forum while not being up to date on Stormlight on a thread about Radiant abilities (especially as far back as Oathbringer) is certainly a choice. It’s not something I would do, if I wanted to maintain any sort of narrative tension.

I appreciate the concern. 

I have been on the forums for a few years and have voiced my opinions and dislike of the SA for all narrative reasons. The only investment I have in the franchise is the magic. So when spoiler season is gone I feel quite free to ask for spoilers in the general cosmere discussion. 

You dont have to worry about protecting me from myself. If I ask for spoilers its because I really dont care what happens narritively.  I just come for the magic system. 

@Treamayne

Thanks for the snip. I imagine I will eventually get to listening to it in its entirety. For now its one scene at a time. 

I really really enjoyed the Vasher Vs Kal scene in RoW. One day folks... one day I may sit through the books in their entirety. 

1 hour ago, Atlas333 said:

What about having a soulcaster (the item) grant you access to transformation (you would need one attuned to the essence of cloth... which is pulp probably?). 

Then for tension, it's likely easier to just get some breaths so you can use awakening. 

I am curious if the soulcasters ability to soulcast is storable for a nicrosil metalmind. 

9 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

You've read WaT, right?

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Doing this just in case, but I'd assume that she couldn't just create floating objects unless they were mimicking the mass of something that could normally float. A cloud of smoke or steam should be able to float, but something as heavy as a sword would probably need a structure to hold it up.

The thing she does with this is called Substantiation, which appears to be a Resonant ability of Lightweaving and Soulcasting as far as I can tell. And she did have Radiant kill a Fused with a Substantiated sword, so I would say much of what you're thinking could be done, minus floating heavy objects. I'm assuming it must be heavily taxing on Investiture though, as it would be pretty busted otherwise.

 

Nope. But If you wouldnt mind giving me a chapter I will check out the scene. Probably wont read it. Just want the magical highlights. 

It seems like Shallans illusions may have been able to physically clash with individuals. Is she soulcasting mass into the illusions some how?  

Can she create an illusionary floating weapon and have it fight and physically cut like a normal sword?  

Wouldnt that be the ultimate Roshar awakening? 

So I am looking for ways to get multiple surges that are not connected. 

To be specific, tension and soulcasting. I saw Moon Knight and love the way his wraps and costume appear around him. I assume soulcasting is the best way to achieve that as you could simply soulcast the fabric literally from thin air. 

Then tension... because if you have a bunch of wraps and fabric why not control it like a total boss with my personal favorite surge. 

So please. Help me brainstorm the ways to get those 2 surges specifically. Please avoid the obvious of bonding multiple spren. 

2 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

I'd say it's Awakening, not pseudo at all. We know that Cosmere magics can often be performed using different magic systems, like Radiant and Yolen Lightweaving. 

The reason I say pseudo is because I dont believe a rope manipulated with tension is going to be in the same class of invested object as something that is awakened with breaths. 

The awakened rope with breaths moves based on the command and will continue to do so long after the awakener walks away. You could awaken a rope to run a motor for your generator for a long long time. 

But with tension, I dont know that that rope will do what you want it to do after you leave.  

Maybe it will?  If that is the case then this is even more epic imo. 

4 minutes ago, Jult said:

Correct. Brotherwise (the designers of the game) meet regularly with Brandon, Dan Wells (Dragonsteel's Vice President of Narrative), and other Dragonsteel employees to make sure they don't add anything too contradictory. It's intended to be canon, especially the World Guides and story materials. With a couple of caveats:

1. If it contradicts any of the actual novels, the novels win.
2. Take any of the mechanical aspects of the game with a grain of salt. In order to gamify the system, they had to insert certain limits and constraints. For example, the 20-foot range mentioned above. We get an exact measurement for the sake of the game, but for lore purposes I'd probably just interpret that as Stonewards being able to use their abilities at a short distance and would not recommend getting hung up on the exact number.

And tension is usable on non living things!  This is the steel cable doc ock arm dream that can be realized without needing to have 9th heightening. 

Perhaps controlling multiple arms at once would be difficult and require some skill?  But still closer than awakening and more in the users control than hoping the command works right. 

Plus it does invest the item too so would that make them resistant to shards as well?  I would think so given that focused ones flesh becomes shardproof while under tension.

1 hour ago, Jult said:

The skill tree from the Cosmere RPG starts with you only being able to use both Cohesion and Tension on objects you can touch.

Eventually, the Cohesion tree unlocks a talent called Through the Stone that lets you "use your surges and their talents as though your reach is 20 feet, as long as there is a stone surface between you and your target that you can touch."

Very coincidental choice of words, but the Tension tree has a Talent called Fine Control. It lets you "selectively change the rigidity of an object’s parts, allowing fine control much like the movement of muscles and tendons".

It even directly notes some of the rope shenanigans you are describing (spoilered for length - I cut out a couple bits of text related to the game mechanics since those probably aren't of interest to anyone):

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"Many Tension users infuse long pieces of cloth, rope, or other flexible material that they can control, effectively extending their range. On each of your turns for the duration, while touching part of one object you infused using this talent, you can move it up to 25 feet along surfaces (including ceilings) and can use it to interact with characters and other objects.

You can (...) have one infused object perform simple tasks like climbing a tree or opening a door. You can (...) task one infused object with something that requires a test or your careful attention, such as attacking someone or writing a message. The object has no senses of its own and can’t act without your touch and direct control, so you can’t give it tasks that require senses or knowledge you don’t have."

This sounds like a better version of Awakening with the limitation of range and touch while using it. (No awakening clothes and walking away while they wrestle your opponent). 

Thanks for these. I think the RPG is pretty close to canon. I know its not entirely but I feel like a big selling point was that Brandon was working closely with that team no?  

3 minutes ago, Returned said:

I strongly recommend not skipping ahead to read this section just for this. To interact with this chapter at all will expose you to a lot of spoiling. Xiahida's description is enough to address your question and I don't think that reading the chapter will give you much information beyond that. But if you must, it's WaT, chapter 41.

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Also, for completeness' sake, it's the Stoneward Honorbearer, not the Willshaper. It is confusing because the chapter mentions Willshapers a lot, more than Stonewards, but it's a comparison Szeth is frequently making for reasons the chapter describes (briefly).

I appreciate the concern. I am not invested in the story at all for SA. Its just not my jam and I dont have 120 spare hours to catch up. I just like the magic usage and would skip all of the story gladly to see how the system is shaping up. 

3 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

This is similar to what the Willshaper(?) Honorbearer did to Szeth. It seems that skilled users have incredible control over how the stone can move, creating pillars giant pillars of encasing someone in a stone sphere.

As to what their range is, I don't think there is any concrete information.

Having not read the book yet I have to ask. Did Kalak only do that at close range while touching Szeth?  Any idea what chapter this happened in so I can skip ahead and spoil it for myself?  

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

The participants choose the equipment before knowing who their opponent is. Sometimes that results in matches where equipment doesn't help much

Lore point and due to my lack of understanding about rysium daggers. 

Do they not cut the soul?  Did they fail this matchup because they wouldnt make it through the carapace?  

Is carapace considered living or invested after it is grown?  

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

Our first set of Results are in.

Our first battle is a Magnified One versus a Deepest One.

Our Deepest One took two Raysium daggers, the Magnified One hid four Aluminum Daggers in his carapace

Battle:

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The Magnified one rushed forward, forming a shield with his arms, only to find there was nothing there. The Deepest one simply sliding into the stone beneath.

The Magnified One began growing the carapace around his feet, creating large shoes four feet across. The Deepest One surfaced ten meters away, the stone around the Magnified One undulating as it grew over the sides of the shoes.

The stone around the Magnified One began to grow, reaching over the carapace shoes that served to protect from the stone. The Deepest One sat focused on their work. Suddenly the Magnified One moved, snapping the carapace from their feet as the leaped the growing barrier and charged the Deepest One. A morning star formed in their hand as they slammed it against the Deepest One's head.

Dazed the Deepest One began to sink back into the stone, but the Magnified One was too quick. With a decisive blow from an axe the Deepest One's head was severed from its body.

Magnified One Wins

More battles will begin shortly, please keep an eye out for PMs

I am not sure what purpose the equipment served in this scenario at all. 

Is equipment a baseline portion of the matchups even if it isnt applicable to any sort of outcome or narrative scene? 

I think a stoneward could certainly manipulate movement and even turn a rope into something that wraps up and then hardens around people in a similar fashion to an awakened rope... 

But how much fine control do you think they have on the objects of their tension and cohesion manipulation?  

Can either of these be used at range or is it only by touch?  I assume a barefoot stoneward could turn the ground they stand on into quicksand outward in a direction... or even select the portion of the ground near them that they want to turn fluid before it swallows up an enemy and they turn it back to rock. 

As cool as making the floor a cooler trap than lava is... if they couse use it at a range and cohesion an enemies shirt enough to constrict their respiratory muscles from working properly that would be insane too. 

How much control does progression have over the shape any plants may take if they use progression on seeds.  Could they take seeds for trees and vines and warp them to grow an encapsulating armor or weapons like King Groot or is that more verdant aethers thing? 

3 hours ago, therunner said:

More recent WoB is rather clear that metal that is body of living spren cannot be burned.
So Allomancer couldn't burn Shardblade at all 
 

 

Good WoB. So no to shardblade. More of an honorblade thing.  

Although what is living?  What is not?  

Is nightblood living in a similar way to honorblades?  Didn't they sort of teach him or something?  (Spoilers welcome as far as im concerned but I didnt read the last 2 stormlight).  

4 hours ago, strmblsd said:

So I had this random thought. where exactly does the metal have to be for a mistborn to burn it? is it just if it is inside the body or does it need to be in the stomach? 

ok I'll get to the point now, if a radiant swung a Shardblade through the front and through say the stomach of the mistborn could the mistborn use duralumin to burn the entire Shardblade before it reached their spine and killed them? it would likely still kill the mistborn but could it completely get rid of the Shardblade while it was in the middle of passing through them?

I dont know what duralumin would do for a shardblade cut because we dont know what that metal would do... 

Definately if anyone wanted to be a shardblade killing machine I think an aluminum Gnat takes the cake. 

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Hobber was most likely cut through the thighs. Had he been severed at the lumbar or sacral spine, he would no longer have had control over his hips, and he was described repeatedly as being able to sit up on his own on a stool. 

Wouldnt a cut through lumbar be like any other shard vs spine injury and result in burnt out eyes and death?  

What counts as spine in the case of instant death via shard cut?  

Given Szeth's ending in WoR it appears that regrowth can heal a shardblade through the spine, but can passive stormlight from a radiant heal a shardblade through the spine?  

I feel like I have seen that some of the windrunners may have died in this way but I need someone to spoil it for me truly.  

We have seen that a gold ferring can heal a shardblade wound. I know stormlight healing is OP but I feel like someone with Miles compounding who could be tapping from multiple goldminds at once all located at different spots could probably pull it off. 

Between Shadowcat and other heroes or shots of people like the kid from Race to Witch Mountain. Phasing or passing through solid objects is an epic power. I feel like surges are close on this one. However they are used in a slightly different way. The Deepest ones already can walk through rocks and stuff. We see peak spren walking through stone as well. 

I cant wait till a book devoted to all the fun things a stoneward can do. This power set fascinates me. I think it can do so much more than just turning cloth into weapons and stoneshaping. 

The fused counterparts to each surge are totally epic but I think they just found the point blank most combat capable use and are glossing over other potential uses. 

Simple question, though I may regret asking it, can Tension and Cohesion be used together to turn a persons body into a rubbery consistency?  

Or is this more an old magic type of thing?