23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

you...

you do realise that Kal is called the son of Tanavast, who was married to Korivellium right?

so...

that causes a lot of issues.

In this scenario, Kal is the son of Tanavast via binary fission and not sexual reproduction.  ...or he's more of a 'reincarnation of Tanavast' rather than a son. I mean, the book never calls Kal "Son of Korivellium" after all! 

On 2/24/2021 at 5:30 PM, CruelSadist said:

Oh, wow, I cannot overstate how surprised I am that I'm not the only one shipping Jenedin  (and loving the thought of all the crap that the legendary Stormblessed would get when she makes him get a hair cut)

Glad to know I wasn't the only one thinking this! However, after reading a bunch of Kaladin-becomes-Honor theories and even some Cultivation-is-setting-up-Kaladin-to-become-Honor theories, I have finally found the truest and most certain Kaladin ship:

Kaladin x Cultivation

If Cultivation is setting up Kal-Honor, then it is almost certain that Cultivation ships Kaladin x Cultivation, which means we have 1-6 more books for Kaladin to either fall madly in love with Cultivation or report her to HR. 

On 1/1/2021 at 1:00 PM, Lunu’anaki said:

This is exactly the type of cursed torture Brandon would put Kaladin through. I always thought he would become a new Herald to renew the Oathpact between books 5 and 6... but this... damn. This sounds so much better.

I agree. I don't think Kaladin will get a quiet, peaceful, normal happily-ever-after. 
 

On 2/12/2021 at 2:34 PM, Forms of mind said:

I always thought kaladin would take jezriens spot. if you look at death rattle bellow. the crown = king is jezrien is fallen title. spear is kaladin. Tower is unknown. tower is to watch over something? 

  Quote

"He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!"

 way of kings

 

What if Tower=Navani, Crown=Jasnah, and Spear=Kaladin? Dalinar is the obvious linchpin for this trio. Not sure what that means though... Dalinar's story ever amplifies the meaning of "unite them". First, he thought it was the high princes, then the Knights Radiant, then the three realms. I don't think we have seen the true meaning of the "them" in these instructions yet. Could it mean that Dalinar should unite the splinters of Honor, so the shard can be taken up again? Also, do you guys think that uniting the splinters of Honor will mean that spren cease to exist? They are splinters of him after all. If the puzzle is put back together, what happens to the pieces? Or maybe most spren are children of Honor and only Sly is a splinter? 
 

14 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

. I think he'd be a good Honor + Odium and possibly as good of an Odium as one can expect, especially if Syl and he are still one on the Spiritual level. Shallan thinks of him in an interesting way in OB:

I agree. Kaladin is the perfect combo of honor and passion. I can't stop thinking that Kaladin is the person who will fulfill this epigraph from Chapter 29: "I have begun searching for a pathway out of this conundrum by seeking the ideal person to act on my behalf. Someone who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. A … sword, you might say, who can both protect and kill." (On the other hand, the fact that it says "sword" and precedes an Adolin chapter has me second-guessing that theory. However, "kill" and "protect" are two words that Kaladin obsesses over like nobody else, so it has to be him. Right?)

When you read all the Part Two Epigraphs  in order, it implies that 1) uniting Odium with another shard will solve some problems, that 2) uniting two opposing shards is not necessarily a solution, and then 3) foreshadows the danger of exactly T-Odium. I wonder if the "pathway out of this conundrum" is actually a uniting of all shards into Adonalsium 2.0, which will be accomplished by someone who can both kill and protect. Is that gonna be Kal? ...I really don't think that Kal holding all shards is the direction Brandon is taking this character. Or maybe I am reading too much into this and Harmony is just looking for an avatar and that's...Wax? 

Finally, the primary reason that I wanted to reply to this post: Do you think... we should start shipping Kaladin x Cultivation? Maybe she is missing her man and sees him in Kaladin, and that's why she set Syl up to bring Kaladin to the point of taking up the shard of Honor. Then Kaladin (aka Honor 2.0) and Cultivation will have a shard wedding in the sky officiated by Odium 3.0 (Dalinar?? Moash???). 
 

Stroms. I am so long-winded. I'm sorry. It's a crime. But... you guys all read Sanderson, so you must like that kind of thing. 

5 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

More seriously, I think Kalak is a traitor who is working with Odium. A lot of what the SoH have done makes quite a bit of sense from that perspective.

You just want everyone in the Cosmere to join Team Kelsier and storms take anyone who stands in his way.  Honestly, all the Herald's are such a hot mess right now, I would gladly sub Thadiakar for them all. Give him all the powers! Tapestries in every room! Mwhahahahah. 

...I suspect Brandon might be Team Kelsier-takes-over-the-Cosmere. I have a feeling that Kelsier is his favorite child. 

16 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

This is one messed up trio

If you thought they were a messed-up before, wait till you read "Radiant Civil War", in which it's a contest between Kaladin and Shallan to see who can kill more of the Davar household. Right now, Shallan is leading 2 to 1. 

3 hours ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Szeth to dalinar    Seemingly innocent but not sure if he will strike

I completely do not understand why the Alethi trust szeth I thought they would at least string him up.

But no they didn’t so now we’re stuck with both

I am mostly shocked about Jasnah's response to Szeth's presence in Oathbringer. She loved her father and was gutted by his assassination. I don't understand how she could just be like, "Oh hey! The storming assassin in white converted to our squad! Cool!"

Right now my mind is reeling. I am imagining Kaladin confronting Kalak in Shallan's presence. 

Kaladin to Kalak: RTT I killed a shardbearer, and you stormed up my life because of it!?! 
Shallan to Kaladin: RTT that shardbearer was my brother!?
Kaladin to Shallan: RTT your stupid brother barrelled into my life, killing my men, scarring me for life, and kicking off a whole storm of events that scarred me for life again and again?? 
*Radiant civil war ensues*
Enter Thaidakar: Sup? Whatseveryonefightingabout? 

27 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Kaladin was named after him.

I need a devastated/crying face emoji for this. This is tragic. He is named after the man who is the epicenter of his betrayal and threw him into the darkest, most miserable days of his life??  *cry* *cry* *cry*

7 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

My hope is that Brandon does this.

Kaladin and Shallan/Kalak meet and Kaladin realizes who it is.

He then overcomes this (as it is a major plot point in WoR that he hates Amamram b/c of what he did and as you said Restares is more guilty) And has a major character growth.

Kinda red herring but very nice growth for Kaladin

No, I want blood. I am going to need some significant storytelling to get where you are. At the very least, I need a "Kaladin decked him" scene. 

Also, would you say Kalak is to Kaladin as Szeth is to Navani or as Szeth is to Dalinar? Somehow they got over Szeth's part in the death of Gavilar, Dalinar more so than Navani. Or can we not even compare them because 1) Szeth was just a pawn and 2) Gavilar sucked & Kaladin's men were just innocent bystanders. 

On 2/21/2021 at 4:53 PM, Bejardin1250 said:

So I don’t know if anyone noticed this but:

Restares ( Kalak ) was the one that ordered Amaram to kill Kaladin’s squad

 “It took hours to decide but Restares is right-this is what must be done.” ( WoK 703)

so in book 5 Kaladin is going to hate Kalak. 

Or he’ll understand I guess we’ll see...

Thank you so much for bringing this up! By some coincidence, I am listening to "Sas Nahn" from tWoK right now, and my brain is exploding with the crossover into Ghostbloods & Sons of Honor storylines. I would say that Amaram is even LESS guilty than Restares in this case. It sounds like Amaram would really rather not have to enslave Kaladin and kill his men but that he was convinced by Restares/Kalak. There are only two options:

1) Brandon is trying to lead us down a false trail. I doubt this though. The only person who could prove Restares wasn't personally involved, as @Kyn implies, is Amaram, and he's super dead. It seems needlessly detailed to include that name in this scene if not to implicate Kalak in the decision. If he is innocent, I think we won't find out until after Kaladin hands handed him his arse. 

2) Brandon is weaving a web that might pit Shallan and Kaladin against each other...? Shallan is basically friends with Kalak now and enemies with Thaidakar. Thaidakar and Kalak have been enemies for ages now. Kaladin and Kalak have got to have a confrontation about this eventually. If Kaladin becomes enemies with Kalak, maybe he will become friends with Thaidakar? Then we have Shallan/Kalak v. Kaladin/Thaidakar. Weirdly in the middle is Helaran, who might have been on the Thaidakar side of the puzzle per Amaran's suspicions in "Sas Nahn" of tWoK. 

Also, Kaladin and Kalak. What's the deal with their similar names??? Will we refound the Oathpack, in which Kaladin subs for Kalak? 

On 2/5/2021 at 4:39 PM, Singer said:

Not exactly a meme but...my kid put on this costume and said "I'm a chicken!"

Yes, my son. Yes you are.

 

"Yes, my son. Yes you are."

I have been laughing about this for like 24 hrs. I wonder if Brandon knew how hysterical his "chickens" would be. 

Moar chicken memes, 17th Shard friends! Por favor. 

Sprenladies and Gentleshards! If you're like me, you like listening to Taylor Swift's Reputation album when you're thinking about Moash, in a Moash-mood, and/or otherwise want to see the world burn, like Moash. I especially like to imagine Moash going about his daily atrocities in a variety of sassy walks, as he listens to Reputation on repeat over his headphone fabrials. To help you imagine the same, I give you: Installment numero uno of "Moash: #1 Taylor Swift Fan"

1)  If He's a Ghost, Then I Can Be a Phantom (Spoilered for size)

2) I Don't Trust Nobody and Nobody Trusts Me (Spoilered because this is the ACTUAL BIGGEST RoW SPOILER! Do not look at this if you have not read the whole book.)

3) I'd Do It Over and Over and Over Again If I Could (Spoilered for size)

On 1/24/2021 at 6:06 PM, Ashbringer said:

General Stormlight:

  Hide contents

 

Please explain. WoK, WoR, O, RoW, ???

Do we know the title of book 5 already? King of Whoa-shar? Kingdom of Witchcraft? Knights of Wimbledon? Are we counting the t in The Way of Kings?  Knowing of Wasing The? Keep off World Thaidakar? Karaoke on Windrunner Time????

 First:  

Quote

Szeth-son-Honor tried to slouch.

...Dalinar said Szeth prowled when he walked, and was too intense when standing at watch. ...

How did one stop being intense? Szeth tried to understand this as he forced himself to lean against a tree...

....tried to at least appear relaxed. It was difficult, requiring vigilance and dedication, but he did not want to be chastised by Dalinar again. 

Second: The whole of The Dog and the Dragon chapter. That chapter is a perfect combination of darkness, humor, and heartwarming takeaways

The resonating darkness:

Quote

“And if all of this is too much for me?” Kaladin asked. “If I can’t keep fighting? If I just … stop? Give up?”

“Are you close to that?”

“Yes,” Kaladin whispered. 

My laugh-out-loud moment:

Quote

“Wit?” Kaladin finally said. “Do you … maybe have a story you could tell me?”

Wit froze, spoon in his mouth. He stared at Kaladin, lowering his hand, leaving the spoon between his lips—before eventually opening his mouth to stare slack-jawed, the spoon falling into his waiting hand.

“What?” Kaladin asked. “Why are you so surprised?”

“Well,” Wit said, recovering. “It’s simply that … I’ve been waiting for someone to actually ask! 

The heartwarming take away:

Quote

A little light, a little warmth, a little fire and he felt ready to walk out into the winds again.

1.28.2021 EDIT:  I changed my mind. Instead of the whole of The Dog and The Dragon, this is my second favorite quote:

Second: 

Quote

"You can kill me, but you can’t have what I have. You can never have it. Because I die knowing I’m loved.”

I chose this one because this quote is so important for the readers to be able to let go of this beloved character. 

So I found this post on Reddit:

Quote

[Rhythm of War - Ch 105-106] I noticed a potential callback to The Way of Kings Prologue

Rhythm of War chapter 105-106

spoiler

“Don’t ruin this,” he told the gathered Fused. “I need to go kill a queen.”

Rhythm of War - Chapter 105: Children of Passions

And:

At the far end of the hallway, a figure in a black uniform walked slowly forward. A Shardblade appeared in his hand. The assassin’s Blade.

Moash had returned.

Rhythm of War - Chapter 106: A Hundred Discordant Rhythms

These really connect with TWoK prologue:

Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a king...

Way of Kings - Prolouge: To Kill

Szeth kills a King, while Moash goes to kill her wife, a Queen.

Szeth wears white, Moash wears black.

Both carry Jezrien's Honorblade.

Both are working, in a way, for Odium.

Szeth calls himself now Szeth-son-Honor, and Moash has a Connection to Odium (a bit of a stretch).

So, here is my twist to the famous quote:

Vyre-son-Odium, traitor of Humankind, wore black on the day he was to kill a queen.

Link: [Rhythm of War - Ch 105-106] I noticed a potential callback to The Way of Kings Prologue : Stormlight_Archive (reddit.com)

Chills. Mysterious things are certainly afoot with these Moash/Szeth parallels. 

On 1/17/2021 at 7:48 AM, Frustration said:

Right questions Tay, wrong answers.

What do you mean? What are the right answers to these questions? Asking because I also got confused by all Odiums colors. Couldn't quite understand the situation with Kal's eyes...

My votes:

1) Prologue: Way of Kings: Szeth was just the perfect introduction to this series. I was very impressed by the writing in Navani's, but it was extremely painful to read, too real.

2) Epilogue: Oatbringer: This one makes me cry every time. 

3) Cover: Word of Radiance: This is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series. 

Are we ruling out Adolin's sloppy seconds for Kaladin? I am making my way through Words of Radiance, and I momentarily considered a fling between Kaladin/Jenet. Kaladin thinks she is pretty and he's totally into her spicey condescension.   Of course, we have no idea whether she is still alive. Haven't seen her in ages. 

6 hours ago, I Just Shard Myself! said:

BS is a good writer because he isn't ham-handedly attempting to foist his personal views onto others 

In a single post, you have commended our beloved author for not forcing his views upon others, meanwhile failing to exemplify that attribute in anyway: Telling people when they are allowed to apologize, how they are supposed to enjoy literature and what should be important to them in the things that they read.  My first instinct in reaction to this post is to just ignore you. Indeed, if someone were to talk to me like this in person, I would smile, nod, and extricate myself from the conversation; in my opinion, it's simply not worth my energy to argue with people who deliver their opinions as absolutes and repeatedly disregard alternative approaches. Unfortunately, I doubt that the Shard at large will be able to ignore this post, so I have elected to respond and hope it will not be a complete waste of effort:

First, I think you will find that your insistence that representation in storytelling doesn't matter is a very unpopular opinion. Storytelling influences society. What people see and experience in the stories they consume influences their opinion about real world people and issues, including their opinions about their identity and how they fit into society. This is why storytelling is so powerful and important. 

Second, I am trying to understand why you are so passionately trying to invalidate the earlier discussion about the portrayal of Jasnah, and I can only conclude that you are offended at people for criticizing Brian. Though I am not offended, I can somewhat relate to this distaste. Personally, I do not like to criticize the writing of finished works for the following reasons: 1) I feel like it takes away from the magic of the story to suggest that it could or should have been written differently. 2) I know that dozens and dozens of people screened the story in advance and all agreed that this was the best way to tell it. Because of this, I prefer to experience stories as complete and final and then react to the choices of characters as if they were actual people who had made real decisions. In the case of the topic at had, the couple of Jasnah and Wit, the canon information that has been presented so far has yet to convince me that their choice to enter into this relationship is a good one. If they were my real world acquaintances, I would feel the same and would need more information from them to change that opinion. I am allowed to worry about people I care about and their choices. People I care about include Jasnah and Wit, so I won't be told I am not allowed to have feelings and opinions about their choices.

Finally, I would like to offer just a smidge of friendly advice. You concluded your post with, "we merely need to agree to disagree." It would be much easier to accept this as an end to the debate if it felt at all like a debate and not a lecture. I think it would help if you added qualifiers to your statements, such as "in my opinion" or "Personally, I believe". It is easier to listen to and accept another person's point of view when it is presented as an opinion, rather than instructions. 

To the OP,  please accept my apologies for derailing this conversation further from the original intent: discussing the Jasnah/Wit ship. 

45 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Which implies that she "cares" about Wit, on some deeper level, to some degree. That should go beyond "he's so old and he knows so many secrets". Which is essentially all she has to say (/think) about him. It's just not a believable portrayal of someone caring about someone else. And it seems like that's what he wanted to do with that scene. Instead, we got her thinking about him like he was some puzzle, instead of a person. And in the light of what he seemed to aim at, I do think that this just isn't good writing. In this case, he didn't do a good job making me understand her like he intended (as someone who "cares" in a heteroromantic, asexual way).

That said, I haven't seen much "anger" directed at him for it, just disapointment, sourness, or lack of understanding (I share all of them to some degree). And most people who are annoyed by it still love the book as a whole (which I share as well!). I just think that this was sloppy in a way that we don't usually see from Brandon. The fact that this scene sticks out so much is a very positive thing to say about him, in my opinion.

Jasnah isn't an emotionally expressive character. From the WoK until now, keeping her emotions close to the chest has been a consistent theme for her. I think this is one of the reasons, I dislike her; I cannot understand what she wants or how she feels. In RoW, we get tiny hints that she is severely traumatized by being murdered in WoK, but even in her PoV moments, we just get facts about what she is doing in the present, not deep insight into her inner conflicts. I honestly can't think of a single time when we have truly seen into Jasnah's mind; the closest we got was probably her PoV on Gavilar's death. 

It is possible that the writing was flawed, but it is also possible that Brandon was trying to keep Jasnah's PoV as this expression of current actions and surface-level thoughts, rather than overflowing with deep feelings of romance, weakness, etc. Perhaps it's a little of both of these things that isn't working for us yet. I can't wait for us to finally get to Jasnah's book, so we can figure out what is going on behind the mask she wears, even for the readers in her PoV chapters.

On 1/15/2021 at 9:05 AM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Nope, the board is showing a business plan. (It actually is, which is part of why I picked that image.) The Diagramists are not interested in business. Thaidakar is.

This is the diagram.

Nah. Dis is The Diagram.

Notice the "largest chocolate bar EVER" and the "number four". Both very important to the fate of mankind.

Imagine if Taravangian's one day of brilliance was just a particular memory of taking a marker to the wall in his childhood... Or if it was sometime in his early twenties when he tripping on some Rosharan drug...

First, @Lightning Could you please mark this thread as containing Warbreaker and Mistborn spoilers or put it in the title? There is a lot of information in here that is not from RoW or SA. 

On 1/6/2021 at 0:41 PM, Nameless said:

Well, Taravangian couldn't see Hoid's memories:

And he did destroy some of Hoid's breaths:

 

I just finished reading Warbreaker, and I really cannot understand these WoB. In Warbreaker, you cannot take breaths and memories from someone who is unwilling to give them. Even the one time we see Vasher alter someone's memory (the child), it requires the child to verbally agree to the exchange. How could Todd take Hoid's breath or memories without his consent? Also, there is very little in Warbreaker about memory being stored in breath, just two scenes. I dunno why Brian says, "He excised them, he performed a little surgery on the Breaths. You have seen this happen before in the books," as if it was a commonplace thing in another book. Nothing like this happened in Warbreaker, no breaths were surgically removed; they were always given with consent. Is Brian suggesting that Todd somehow knew all about biochroma and forced Hoid to give up his memories via that secret command that even the reader never knew?

On 12/15/2020 at 11:58 AM, Lightning said:

  It is possible, as some have speculated, that Hoid (partially) did this to himself (through feruchemy, and the missing coin).  But wouldn't that raise Taravangian's suspicion, if Taravangian didn't also manipulate those short-term memories?

Is there another thread where people are discussing the missing coin? If not for these WoB and the perfect pitch, I would have expected that the coin was a metalmind and that it is what Todd took, not breath.

@AquaRegia I like your theory, and I hope it is correct! If Cephandrius was in complete control, that would explain everything; he would have agreed to let Odium take his breath because that was the plan all along!

On 1/11/2021 at 11:55 PM, Kyn said:

Personally, I don’t think Nightblood is as…complete, developed, or personified as the spren. So evil, for Nightblood, is both more subjective (whatever it feels evil is) and more definite (it must be destroyed) than honor is for the Honorspren. Nightblood has to pretend that it knows what evil is, incontrovertibly, so it might not be able to change its mind so easily as the spren at Lasting Integrity…which is kind of horrifying.

I’d guess Nightblood will treat its cobbled-together definition of evil as sacrosanct, precisely because lacking the crowdsourcing or deific origins makes that definition even more questionable. And I’m also guessing Nightblood relies a lot on gut feelings for determining evil, and sees no contradiction between these two things.

Below contains information from Warbreaker:

I am conflicted about the Wit/Jasnah relationship. First, Jasnah's implication that they are sexually active really combs my hair in the wrong direction. Wit is several millennia her senior, and he is definitely not being transparent with her about who he is and what his goals/motives are. I feel uncomfortable with a man like that being in a sexual relationship with a young, powerful, asexual woman. Additionally, although I understand that Jasnah doesn't follow a religion, she does tend to follow the customs of Vorinism and the prude Alethi culture, at least in appearance. It seems odd to me that she would take this relationship to that level, disregarding her sexuality and cultural norms. 

On top of this, I think it undermines Jasnah's powerful, independent woman persona for her to be taken in by a man who is not only untrustworthy but whose own power and intelligence makes hers appear pale in comparison. It seems a shame to have this strong female lead overshadowed by her practically shard-level important boyfriend. Honestly, I LOVE Wit's character and I dislike Jasnah more and more every day; however, this relationship has my male-predator senses on high alert; it bothers me so that these two are not coming into this relationship on equal footing.

All that said, I have rarely seen much-older-man/young-woman relationships end in anything but catastrophe, so I can't not bring that into my perception of this couple. Despite my love for Wit and disdain for Jasnah, my trust issues with men are so triggered by this relationship, especially because they seem to be sexually active, despite the woman's preference that they not be.

Maybe I will feel differently after we get a little more time to explore the dynamics of their relationship...

On 1/9/2021 at 6:05 PM, Kyn said:

People who are willing to face up to, take on responsibility for, and potentially even make up for what they’ve done don’t qualify as evil to Nightblood. In that case, Moash very much would, just as he would if evil was judged as someone who wanted power at practically any cost.

I think you mean "In that case, Moash very much would [qualify as evil]". This is a very intriguing point you make. Would you say that "evil" is as subjective as "honor"? I think Taravangian took responsibility for his actions, after a fashion. Is he then not evil? Or is the evilness of Taravangian not the condemnable actions that he acknowledges as necessary evils but the characteristic that Dalinar pointed out: His desire to be glorified as the ONE man who saved the world all by himself? In my opinion, one consistency I am seeing in the Cosmere is that Shards acting alone is bad news bears, regardless of whether they are initially perceived as good or bad. Perhaps Todium will play into that theme. Honestly, having Todd finally take his place as the BBEG is something of a relief, if only because it consolidates the story's villains somewhat. 

It is frightening to think that Nightblood determines someone's evilness based on their self-assessment of responsibility, aka guilt. (I am just now starting Warbreaker, so I'll circle back once I understand Nightblood a bit more.) 

On another note, what would you give to see Zahel beat the snot out of Moash? I think a good old fashion dressing down from his swordmaster may knock some sense into him, and even if it doesn't, it would sure be fun to watch! 

On 1/9/2021 at 3:12 AM, Eri said:

Also for being extraverted and charismatic while depressed which for me is totally like putting toasts with cheese to a sideways toaster and pulling them out beautifully toasted and similar tutorials (hint: don't try. It won't work.) or all the "how to draw X tutorials where they draw a circle, and a squiggle and suddenly get a beautiful, detailed portrait.

Do you mean that you don't believe a person can be externally extraverted and charismatic while being internally depressed or do you mean that this is just a combination that you personally do not experience?