TypicalShard

On 1/7/2025 at 6:12 AM, Sedside said:

You can pull the wool over people's eyes as much as you can, it won't work with me, sorry. I have my own head on my shoulders and I see what this "subversion" really is.

This is the most dramatic things I've ever read on these forums. 

Unless one of those lions happens to love swirling wine in goblets and collecting weapons the Heralds clear. 

On 12/13/2024 at 2:13 PM, wormotif said:

Why didn't they know? Unclear; it seems like Honor, at least, should have realized thanks to the foresight granted to Shards

I find this interesting because the last Honor vision, Rejection, shows that Tanavast didn't foresee Odium's trick with BAM. This, combined with the fact that Shards must actively consider the permutations of time, and that Honor repeatedly says he's not as proficient at reading the future as the others, leads me to believe that this was either a subtle possibility he overlooked, something Odium actively hid from him, or both.

Lindon from the Cradle series is more powerful but Rand's power varies depending on which version of him you use. For instance, end of series Rand is heavily implied to no longer be Ta'veren, so he'd no longer have probability manipulation, and cannot touch any of the powers. Which means he probably cant use weaves like Balefire. Not to mention that his one feat of lighting a pipe by bending reality is so incredibly vague as to be meaningless when discussing his power. 

If we're allowed side characters than any Judge for the Willverse would crush Rand instantly. 

I really like this art style for plate, it really fits my mental image. 

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

I was meaning a more active roll, like the Stormfather is doing his thing and Cultivation shows up and says something to the affect of "Go bond Dalinar."

And I think that the only time that the Stormfather says anything really mean was when he realises that Gavilar has only been in this for his own power.

He clearly has decided to appraoch bonding differently, however unless you want to say that there is another Bondsmith spren capable of giving the visions I think the Stormfather is the only valid candidate.

I would find it odd for the Stormfather, whose whole resistance to Dalinar is, especially in RoW, is predicated around the idea that spren are unchanging, to suddenly change his approach to bonding. 

12 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

Many people have been wondering whether the stormfather we see is he. Some of the behavior/appearance is strange. Which means that information that he gives us may be unreliable. Can we also stop for a minute to appreciate that Gavilar was far less competent than he thought that he was? It was so good to watch him be oblivious to all of the wonderful secrets playing out around him.

That rant he goes on after he says a Herald has died really reminds me of how Fuzz acted. His manifestation is also really weird to me. 

A... ᴀ Hᴇʀᴀʟᴅ ʜᴀs ᴅɪᴇᴅ. Nᴏ, I'ᴍ ɴᴏᴛ ʀᴇᴀᴅʏ. Tʜᴇ Oᴀᴛʜᴘᴀᴄᴛ... Nᴏ! Tʜᴇʏ ᴍᴜsᴛɴ'ᴛ sᴇᴇ! Tʜᴇʏ ᴍᴜsᴛɴ'ᴛ ᴋɴᴏᴡ!

Ok this really sounds like someone's been hiding from the Heralds. And it makes me really lean towards the Tanavast. But then again Odium seems positive they killed him and to the ability to hide from everyone so thoroughly, he would have to be absolutely cracked considering he's only a dead god.

Just now, Use the Falchion said:

Kaladin (and/or someone else Sigzil cares about) is still alive, meaning this happens close enough to Stormlight Archive overall for Kaladin to be alive, or he has Ascended (which I totally support) 

If it's Kaladin or anyone from bridge four they would have to be a Ascended or a cognitive shadow. Brandon says that this is fairly far into the cosmere timeline. "Moderately far into the cosmere's future." 

1 minute ago, Eternal Khol said:

yeah, im expecting a rather not... happy ending... for book 5. its gonna make it all the better though, bittersweet or just straight sad endings are my favorite

Well at least you get to be happy, unfortunately I hate such endings with a passion. This just ain't storming fair. 

" Storms it couldn't be, it couldn't... he walked further haunted by what he might find, worried that he was going mad yet desperate to know. Could it... "Kal?". "

Well this doesn't bode well.   

I'm hoping for the herald route, that he'll take Jezrien's place one way or another. I honestly don't know if Kaladin will die in book 5, it feels both unlikely and possible at the same time. What I will say is having Kaladin die in the 5th book feels like the worst possible direction that could be taken. 

Kaladin turned his corner and got a good 10 days of being free from guilt and his suicidal thoughts, so now he can die. And the readers can be happy to know that he turned that corner before he passed into the beyond. It would almost feel mocking, Kaladin has finally reached a place where he can step away and work on himself only for him to die. But you can't die while you're struggling, because you still have a character arc and it's super compelling. 

11 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Well if that's how you are going to be, I am not sure why I should care what you want me to do.

I stated my unpopular opinion in a thread titled unpopular opinions. I feel I fully explained my opinion. You aren't giving me much reason to engage with you on the topic given your response.

Nothing is compelling me to elaborate on my beliefs further to you than I already have. You haven't given me much reason to think such a conversation will end well for either party.

I probably should've clarified that. When I said I didn't care I was referring to this: 

5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

@TypicalShard

I was presenting from the perspective on plot, showing that the points served the same function, and were either to further another's plot, or was in fact someone else's plot only folded over to include Adolin in it.

Both externalized Dalinar's self doubt, issues with his past, and overcoming his darker impulses.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. 

If you read them side by side, they have almost exactly the same beats.

Again if you read them side by side, they have almost exactly the same beats.

 

My post was not meant to attack Adolin. I just feel Rhythm of War confirmed my personal understanding of the character's purpose and function in the novels. You are perfectly entitled to love those story beats, and the character. I wish you well with it. 

I don't really care I want you to explain. 

The visions are what start Dalinar's path to becoming better than the other High Princes but they see it as Dalinar weakening. The visions make him question his and the Alethi actions on the Shattered Plains. 
Adolin's doubts center around the sanity of his father and his ability to lead their house. What Adolin want's is for Dalinar to go back to the blackthorn and lead their house. We see this when Dalinar tries to step down from being high prince. 
However throughout WoK's Adolin comes around to Dalinar's way of thinking when Sadeas betrays them. He's proud that Dalinar tried to be better than the other High Princes.

In RoW Dalinar is not self doubting, in fact he seems more sure of himself than ever before and because of this he pushes Adolin to standards he doesn't want to uphold.
Adolin's conflict in WoKs was not about his fathers dark impulses and past but about his mind. In WoKs Dalinar is never truly critical of Adolin like he is in RoW. 
Adolin's conflict in RoW is not about Dalinar's sanity but about trying to become his own person. Unlike in WoKs Adolin does not come around to his father's way of thinking. 

"He knew Dalinar had been a different man then, a man not in his right mind, betrayed, consumed by the power of one of the unmade...One could know these things without feeling them. And this wasn't something you forgave." 
"Adolin loved his father, even now with everything he had learned about what Dalinar had done. Even with that event. He loved his father." 

"I don't represent you anymore father. I'm a high prince, I represent myself." 
"I know that's the person you really are...Do not let my failings drive you to rebel against what you know is right merely because it is what I wish of you."  

"It's about you again. I cant have an opinion or make choices I'm only acting like this because of your influence."
"Maybe incredible though it may seem, there are more than two choices in life. I'm not you, but that doesn't mean I'm Taravangian. Maybe I'm my own brand of wrong." 

"I love him but can't yet forgive him. I think I will, with time. There's more though. Straining out relationship. He has this misguided notion that I've always been better than him. To father I'm some pristine remnant of my mother-this noble little statue who got all of her goodness and none of his coarseness. He doesn't want me to be me, or even him. He wants me to be this imagined child who was born better than he ever could be." 

The conflict in WoKs is about Dalinar, the conflict in RoW is about Adolin. 

OB: 
Unplanned arrival in shadesmar
Shallan uses magic to travel the ocean to an island.
Have to quickly move through the island as Kaladin is attracting anger spren.
Travel south because Azure knows about light houses there.  
Kaladin touches orb during highstrom and gets a vision and disagrees with the others about where they should go. 
They make arrangements with this man and secure a boat.
Arrive at Celebrant and exchange what they can and try to find another ship.
Fused track down Adolin and the gang. 
Syl reveals her identity to the crew of Honor's Path and they all flee on it from the Fused. 
Eventually Fused converge on the Honor's Path.  
They abandon the ship and travel under the ocean with Shallan's power to an island.
They make their way across this island on foot to the oath gates trying to avoid getting notived by Fused. 
When they arrive at the oath gate they find it guarded. 
They make a plan to fight the Fused. 
The plan goes poorly and Kaladin tries and fails to say an ideal. 
They get saved by an outside force, Dalinar, not within shadesmar 
They all make it back to the physical realm, their destination. 
RoW:
Planned diplomatic journey. 
They already have a method of traveling across the ocean secured.
Shallan discovers that there's a traitor among her 'court' of Lightweavers.  
They stop at the Freelands as a planned part of the journey. 
Make their way along the coast to Lasting Integrity. 
They notice the Tukari slowly following them. 
Adolin notices how badly Shallan is doing and takes her to see a Star Spren. 
Tukari turn back after a few days. 
Go back to fight with the Tukari to save Notum. 
Then continue on their way to Lasting Integrity. 
Get denied entry to their goal. 
Adolin decides to put himself up for trail to get in, the honor spren agree. 
Only Adolin, Shallan and Pattern make it to their destination. 
 

Adolin, Kaladin and Shallan with a few other sneak into the Kholinar. In Lasting Integrity no stealth is used. He goes right up to the front gate announces who he is a requests to face trail for the sins of past Radiants.

Adolin goes to someone he knows personally in Kholinar. Within Lasting Integrity there is no such person. He and Shallan are given rooms.  

Adolin has to learn honor spren trail law. Adolin doesn't go through any formal educational process during Kholinar. 

Adolin gets put on trail in Lasting Integrity, this doesn't happen in Kholinar.

Adolin portrayal within Kholinar is one of competence. In Lasting Integrity Adolin is seen as naïve and an idiot. And unlike in Kholinar his actions do not disprove anyone's opinion of him. During his trial he can barely sway any spren until Notum and Maya speak up for Adolin or defend themselves. 

Adolin and Kaladin lead the battle through the palace to get to the oath gates. Shallan 'fends' off the Unmade and they use the oath gates to escape. They fail in their mission to secure Kholinar and Elhokar dies. In Lasting Integrity Adolin succeeds in his mission to encourage more honor spren to bond people. These are different scenarios with different outcomes.

On 1/7/2022 at 11:32 AM, Pathfinder said:

1. Adolin's issues with Dalinar is a plot rehash of Adolin's issues with Dalinar in Way of Kings with insanity. 

2. Travel through Shadesmar is a rehash of the travel through Shadesmar during Oathbringer.

3. Adolin's fight is a rehash of the four shardbearer duel during Words of Radiance

4. The time in Lasting Integrity is a rehash of the infiltration of Kholinar during Oathbringer

Adolin had trouble trusting his father's judgment due to what he thought was madness. Adolin's current issues are that his dad KILLLED his mother. How are these the same?

"I read your book, you killed mother."

"Adolin I have proved myself time and time again that I am not mad." These are two wholly separate issues.  

How else were they going to get to Lasting Integrity? Just teleport? Oh but I guess that's a rehash of the oath gates huh.

Adolin fight's against a group of people? The only two similarities is that Adolin gets some assistance and its against a superior force. Its like saying Kaladin fighting with a spear is a rehash of when he first used a quart staff against Jost. 

How oh how oh how is Lasting Integrity a rehash of Kholinar? They aren't even remotely similar. 

14 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

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So what this quote is saying is that while other Shards could control or communicate with a Hemalurgic construct, they'd be less effective than Ruin? Guess that would mean that Marsh wouldn't be as vulnerable as I originally assumed, if he decided to Worldhop.

 

So I'm assuming, because Preservation put more of itself into the souls of mankind that they created only it can hear thoughts. While Ruin, who put less in cannot, right? 

I'm a little confused about how Kelsier can read the thoughts of people after his ascension. I thought shards didn't have that ability no matter what. I think I have misunderstood something, but there is another instance that seemed to confirm Shards could not read peoples minds in SA. 

"He could hear their thoughts like voices."  

"'Remember yourself' Marsh's thoughts whispered." <- this is what Kelsier hears. 

"The boy's thoughts drifted to Kelsier..."

Also because I was thinking about making a post just for this anyway: Fuzz needs more appreciation.

Just a thought I had, but it was mentioned that Rand's mind was more corrupted by the taint than any other Nynaeve had seen and Rand body switches with Moridin at the end. But wouldn't Moridin's brain be in an even worse state than Rand's given how liberally he used the True Power. Or is the poisoning done to the soul then manifests within the mind. But then wouldn't Rand's mind still be tainted? I don't remember but it isn't ever explained what the light stuff within Rand's head was either. I kind of remember his mentioning that the protection on his mind wouldn't last forever, but then again it has been awhile and my brain might be making up things. 

Ok so this is a little messy but essentially, why is Rand's soul/brain ok after the body switch? 

The moments we do get with Jasnah help me like her a lot more, weirdly enough. In WoKs there are some heavy implications for the things that Jasnah has been through in the past, I forgot which chapter but I think it was when Shallan notes how she talks about men, and again in OB. She mentions being locked in a dark room and screaming because they thought she was insane and also because her parents are not the greatest. (I love Navani but she really stormed up there. Honestly its says a lot about Jasnah caring nature that she still cried for her father and clearly loves her mother.) 

The Renarin scene is another great moment for her. She gets to choose between the world or her family and she picked family. (Insert F&F meme here). 

Another good scene that helps humanize her is that she just kills three bandits instead of using her influence to investigate the street and arresting them. This is something she did that I disagreed with fundamentally but you end up running in circles when you try to say what she did was 100% wrong. She knows what she's about however, I don't agree with how certain she is about her actions. It makes her feel more real to me as, people often challenge you in the places where you least expect differences. If that makes any sense. 

I would have more problems if I didn't know she was going to be a POV in the back 5 but I'm content on being somewhat distant from her character atm because she isn't the focus yet. 

I forgot, I love this little detail and it is always brought up. The mutual respect between Jasnah and Dalinar is great.

Though I don't really like how Dalinar complains in his head about how Jasnah handled Ruthar. However, I think apart of this is how much closer Dalinar is getting to Honor and him over-reacting to other people, like Adolin, because he fears for the worst possible outcome of him reverting to how he was. 

The medicine is another small detail, that helps me like her as well. We see how busy she is but she still finds time to make medicine for people.

On 9/9/2021 at 0:41 AM, CosmicSieve said:

Stormfather is on my list of Most Likely To Die. Since the power to kill spren now exists, I expect to see it used to spectacular effect. 

I don't believe that is possible as the amount of anti-stormlight that would require would be monstrous. I can see him dying in a way once Dalinar falls but I don't think he'll die to anti-stormlight. 

1 hour ago, Meg said:

I apologize for my wisecracking (especially because I had missed that Weltall already told :(). Also, even without dyslexia I also can easily make typos, so don't worry. Sorry, again.

Thus: Don't be angry about yourself.

 

 

It's cool, I only brought it up because I like to be as clear as possible when I make mistakes and whatnot. Also I appreciate the words of encouragement. : D 

1 hour ago, Weltall said:

It's during the Weeping when Kaladin notes that he always struggles mentally, he's having an especially bad day on top of that because of what his actions have done to Syl and the moral dilemma he's wrestling with and he's got an injured leg on top of it all. It's literally that he's having one of the worst days of his life, nothing supernatural. See Rhythm of War for plenty of examples of how Kaladin can do just fine without his powers when he's not going through a horribly depressive phase.

Oh, and you might want to check your auto-correct because you managed to spell 'Syl' wrong every time.

I have dyslexia so little things like that always slip by. I'm kind of angry as I re-read this comment over ten times before posting it and I still missed it.

Rhythm of War is the one Stormlight Book I have not yet re-read because of how recently I finished it.

Anyway, I don't know how to respond to everyone at once (is there a reply all?) but I do appreciate all the personal experiences shared and it has helped me put myself more in that position. I think I partially ignored Kaladin's metal state because of how he said he had lost people before and this was no different. This was most likely my greatest mistake when revisiting these chapters as Kaladin has never worked like this, idk how I skipped over how out of character those words where. Everyone's comments have helped me better understand what is happening within the chapters and I am grateful you took the time to comment your thoughts. 

I've been re-reading the Stormlight Archive and Into the Sky, chapter 52 of Words of Radiance combined with The Last Day Chapter 81 has begun to bother me the more I think about it. 

Kaladin asks Sly if his skill with the spear is from her and calls it cheating. Sly, however, points out what he has trained with the spear every day for years. She further elaborates that it is both of them, together, and compares what she and Kaladin do to a genius of music picking up an instrument for the first time and finding music. I was fine with this, Sly gives Kaladin an edge allows him to focus more and move with the winds and just generally enhances his skill with the spear.

The problem for me is in Chapter 81 when Sly is "dead" and her bond with Kaladin is, at the very least, severely damaged. Kaladin tries to wield a spear and is utterly incompetent. Imo it goes beyond incompetence as he has difficulty with simple thrusts. It is like saying that both of them created or enhanced or developed his skill with a spear and then showing that it's all Sly. It irritates me all the more because Kaladin has legitimately trained with the spear for years and then without Sly he can't even do the basics.

I'm not saying I don't like Sly, frankly I don't think that's possible, but I am saying is that Sly seems to be THE factor in all of Kaladin's skill when it shouldn't be. It should be 50/50.

I'm posting this because I feel like I'm not correctly interpreting the scenes and I would like to see how other people interpret/view this to give me a better perspective.    

Edit (There was an edit button): 

I have dyslexia so little things like Sly instead of Syl tend to slip by. I'm kind of angry I missed this as I had re-read this comment over ten times before posting it.

Anyway, I don't know how to respond to everyone at once (is there a reply all?) but I do appreciate all the personal experiences shared and it has helped me put myself more in that position. I think I partially ignored Kaladin's metal state because of how he said he had lost people before and this was no different. This was most likely my greatest mistake when revisiting these chapters as Kaladin has never worked like this, idk how I skipped over how out of character those words where. Everyone's comments have helped me better understand what is happening within the chapters and I am grateful you took the time to comment your thoughts. 

10 minutes ago, Weltall said:

1) Objects can in fact hold or manipulate the One Power, that's pretty much what ter'angreal do. There's even a particular subset of ter'angreal whose entire purpose is to store the Power, though they don't get mentioned until late in the series.

2) The glow is to all appearances a visual representation of the sheer amount of Power that its wielder can channel, there are enough instances of the Power described in terms of glowing that it's not surprising a powerful amplifier artifact might also glow as it does its thing.

3) The giant statute sa'angreal also glow really really brightly when they're used. I don't recall if the access key ter'angreal glow as well.

I don't know how I forgot about the Well Nynaeve has. I just remember Moraine telling Egwene in the first book that objects don't hold the power but then again I might be miss remembering. 

So this is just an idle question I thought up, but if objects cannot hold the One Power why does Callandor glow when Rand channels with it? 

I was just a bit curious about when Odium mentioned Kaladin's soul had literal holes in it, which allowed him to give Kal the nightmares. Even Hoid, who best understands Kal's situation, didn't understand how Odium made the connection, which implies that he doesn't know about the holes?

I guess my point is I wanted other people's opinions on this because it seems important to me.