starman2995

22 hours ago, Bnaya said:

So, its pretty much confirmed in chapter 1 of sp1 to be a cup...

"I am a cup"
"But you could be a tulip"
"I am a cup!"

5 hours ago, Weltall said:

There's one massive thing you're forgetting which kills your idea: The Stormfather existed long before humans arrived on Roshar. He's the spren of the highstorm and the storm has existed as long as Roshar has. In his current form the Stormfather 'awakened' because of what Tanavast did and is a fusion of the original spren and the latter's Cognitive Shadow.

This doesn't fully discount my idea for Fleet. Just because the storm existed before humans arrived on Roshar doesn't mean that the Stormfather did as well. It is possible that a being similar to the Stormfather existed then, but it could have been very different from what he is now. Before, it could have been just a pool of investiture, like a Shard is before someone ascends to it. 

Currently, I'm leaning toward the idea that Fleet might have become something other than the Stormfather for some of the reasons you mentioned (possibly a Stormstrider like Frustration mentioned), but it seems blatantly obvious to me that, at the very least, Fleet is living on as a cognitive shadow as part of the storm in some form or another.

5 hours ago, Weltall said:

The proper term for the holder of a Shard is Vessel and all of them were originally human, sho del or dragons since they all came from Yolen. Any Shard can make avatars like Autonomy does but she's the only one who seems to do it so regularly. Bavadin is still alive and Autonomy intact, so it's not the same thing as the Stormfather where he's a Sliver and the largest Splinter of a splintered Shard whose original Vessel is dead.

There appear to be few if any limits on what form an avatar can take, as Brandon has said that Autonomy's can be of any gender, any race and they don't have to be humanoid.

I think you partially misunderstood what I was asking. I know that all of the Vessels were originally human (or close enough), and that Avatars are separate things. The thing I was curious about was if, for example, when Autonomy formed Patji, she could have instead "mini-ascended" a human (or equivalent) to become her Avatar, rather than fully creating it herself. That was the thought process I had because that was what I was thinking happened with Fleet.

In Words of Radiance, Wit tells Kaladin the tale of a man named Fleet, who races the highstorm. Fleet dies at the end, having run across the entire continent and ending in Shinovar. I think that when he died, he became invested with enough investiture from the storm that he was able to stay alive as a cognitive shadow, and possibly even ascend, though not to the level of a shard. There are a few key phrases in the story that are leading me to believe this:

1st, when Kaladin asks Wit if he was real, Wit responds "As real as I am". He could be twisting things, but I think he is being honest about him being real.

2nd, after Fleet has died in the story, Wit continues with "His body dead, but not his will, within those winds his soul did rise." This is the strongest part of my belief for a few reasons. First, we know that the highstorm is essentially a moving perpendicularity, as it is described as a place where all three realms meet. There is also enough investiture there to create a cognitive shadow. Furthermore, the wording "rise" (with the italics actually in the book) match with the theme of people ascending to become shards. Though this is a lesser case, it makes a lot of sense to me.

3rd, just after the last part, Wit continued "It flew upon the day's last song, to win the race and claim the dawn. Past the sea and past the waves, our Fleet no longer lost his breath. Forever strong, forever fast, forever free to race the wind." This seems to be talking about him riding the storm across the world at first, and then shows how Fleet continued to ride the storm forever. 

4th, this could just be part of the story, but it also gives a timeline for when this could have happened; near the start of the story, Wit said this: "In time long past, in times I've known, he raced the Herald Chan-a-rach. He won that race..." Mentioning a specific race with a specific herald gives more credence to the idea, at least in my head.

5th, right after Wit confirmed that Fleet died, he smiled. This seems to me to hint that Wit knows Fleet lived on, if not as the Stormfather, then at least as a cognitive entity sustained by Honor's power.

I'm not sure if Honor intended for Fleet to ascend at first; if it was a conscious effort from him, windspren, or the power itself, but it fits so well with everything I know about cognitive entities and people ascending (to become shards). 

Another connection from this theory comes from a WoB here:https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2-jordancon-2016/#e9207 

"[referring to the Nightwatcher and Unmade] The Stormfather is different from the others because it's a Sliver." I'm not sure yet what significance this would hold, or what power the Stormfather has given/used up, but I feel like lends credence to the idea that the Stormfather was a human that became spren-like because he became a Sliver from holding the power.

If this theory is correct, then it also brings up another interesting question about other Shards and Avatars: are many other Shard's Avatars originally human/equivalent(singer)? Or is this unique? It seems like it would be extremely interesting in regards to Autonomy and her Avatars.

If you have any more evidence either for or against this theory, I'd appreciate it if you commented it.

So I just had an idea after rereading the story of Fleet. I'm going to create my own post about later, but my theory is that Fleet was an actually person, and when he died, he became the stormfather. We know that when someone dies and are able to take in a large amount of investiture, they can remain alive. The highstorm is Honor's perpendicularly, or is at least described as a place where all three realms meet. There is also clearly enough investiture there to create a cognitive shadow. And the end of the story, talking about him continuing to ride the winds, just seems to fit so perfectly. I imagine Honor was the one controlling the storm back then, but when he saw this display from Fleet, he probably decided to give him this gift of riding and guiding the storm.

On 12/2/2019 at 2:15 PM, Knight of Iron said:

Possible K words: Knight, Kingdom, Kaladin, Kale, King, Kangaroo, Ketchup, Kin, Kitty

Possible middle words: of (probably), or, on

Possible W words: Wit, Ways, Winds, Warlord, Watch, Wedding, Welfare, Whales (Spacewhales?), White

I'll append my own ideas for words here, as well as other ones I found in replies that I think are likely:
K: Knowledge, Keeper, Knife
W: World(s), Wisdom, Wrath, Woe, Whispers, Words

5 hours ago, Banazir864 said:

Well, there's nothing saying that a shardholder has to fit the Intent of his or her shard.

First, in the epigraph of chapter 40 from RoW, Harmony has this to say: "My instincts say that the power of Odium is not being controlled well". He elaborates this in the chapter 42 epigraph, where he says, "In truth, it would be a combination of a Vessel’s craftiness and the power’s Intent that we should fear most". If a vessel doesn't fit with the shard's intent, they won't be able to use it as effectively. This is why Sazed is trying to groom a new vessel for harmony, which he mentions in the epigraph of chapter 29. 

To address the point of conflicting personalities holding shards, they do so with limited power, and the power begins to affect them. The reason Vin was as powerful as she was (at least what I think) was because she had practice using preservation's power; her personality not being in line still limited her. As for Ruin, the power of the shard changed his mind to more match it's intent. The closer the vessel's and shard's intent were, the more powerful they were. Later in the chapter 40 epigraph, Harmony said "The Vessel will be adapted to the power’s will. And after this long, if Odium is still seeking to destroy, then it is because of the power", which explains what happened to Ati even though he was kind when he ascended.

I could be reading this wrong, but this is what I've gathered from all the talk of shards that I have read and seen.

4 hours ago, Leuthie said:

An Elantrian is tied to a Seon. The Seon replaced some of the Elantrians requirements for life. One of these requirements was the ability to heal. The Seon's provided ability was much better, so it's a boon. But when the Seon was put in statis, the Elantrian couldn't heal, so wounds built up until the Elantrian was mindless from the pain. This problem among other things.

Knights Radiant don't have anything replaced by the spren, only added. The spren, however, are actually using their Connections to humans to push themselves into the Physical. They've replaced a piece of themselves with something human. So it's kind of a reverse of the Elantrian issue. When the Connection changed for Seons, the Seons were instantly put in stasis. When the Connection changed for spren, they didn't notice because they had replaced that Connection with the bond. When the bond broke, there was no Connection and they were put into stasis (deadeyed). Humans weren't effected because they're the dominant in this bond (where the Seon is the dominant in the Elantrian bond). The Human didn't need the Connection that was broken. Neither do unbonded spren, as they haven't replaced a more natural Connection with the Nahel Bond Connection.

 

I could just be misunderstanding your message, but I don't think what you are saying is correct. Elantrians aren't inherently tied to a Seon: not all Elantrians have Seons, and a lot of non-Elantrians have them. I also don't have any idea what Seon healing ability you are talking about; I've never heard of/seen anything like that. I think you are mistaking a Seon with a connection to the Dor, which is what given Elantrians the ability to heal and use magic, which is unrelated to having a Seon. 

On 12/21/2020 at 1:09 AM, coolsnow7 said:

I’ve been theorizing along these lines as well but can’t come up with anything specific. A couple more things that are relevant: 

- Brandon said that Deadeyes are supposed to remind us of another similar typology in the Cosmere. The best I can come up with are Kandra=>Mistwraiths. So whatever it was that happened, it was the equivalent of pulling out the spikes for the Parsh, and then probably only leaving Soren with 1 spike, namely their bond.

- Another Cosmere parallel is Sel, where the power of Dominion and Devotion was tied to the land since each had been killed. Well, Honor was dying at the time, and it could be that the power underlying the surges was becoming more strongly tied to the land of Roshar than to him. As a result, taking such strong action on BAM who is apparently in some way important for the land of Roshar => bad for everybody, especially Spren.

- Another angle along these lines with Sel is that Elantrians are stuck in stasis - which brings to mind how deadeyes are in stasis in the Physical Realm, in the shape of the weapon they had last formed. In fact, it could be the parallel we’re supposed to be drawing isn’t Mistaraiths, but Seons in Elantris/human Elantrians.

I really like your line of thinking for this. I hadn't considered the mistwraiths parallel, but I can definitely see it now. As I see it, there are 3 possible links that Brandon could mean for the hint about something similar to the Recreance and what happened to deadeyes:

1st, the conclusion most people drew, is the Reod. While it could be either related to the Elantrians themselves or the Seons they are "bonded" to, it does seem like a very plausible connection. The way both the Elantrians lose their powers and Seons lose their abilities to think and act are very similar.

2nd, my idea was that it could be referring to the parshmen themselves and their transformation after BAM's imprisonment. However, given that evidence points towards deadeyes and parshmen being created in the same event, I don't think Brandon would phrase his hint that way if he were just referring to the parshmen's transformation.

3rd, the idea you posted about the link between Kandra and Mistwraiths. I could be misremembering, but from what I remember of the hint Brandon gave, I think he said there was a similar event in the cosmere, implying that it wasn't just a group of individual cases like the Kandra were. Despite that, I think we could gain some insight from the connection here, even if they aren't the link Brandon was trying to draw.

3 hours ago, More Cynical Than Funny said:

Welcome to the Shard! What is your Stormlight character? Mine is [Redacted for RoW spoilers] 

It might be the obvious choice, but I would have to go with Kaladin. (I assume you meant to say favorite Stormlight character, rather than just "your Stormlight character")

4 hours ago, Ookla the Tortured said:

Welcome to the Shard! What’s your favorite cosmere book?

I really can't choose a favorite book, but my favorite cosmere series so far is Stormlight.

What do you call a two-arm shin who takes too long to join this community? Starman, obviously. I've finally joined this community/discussion through the encouragement of a friend of mine, so I figured I should make a post here. 

I've read all of the official works of the Cosmere so far, including just finishing RoW, and have enjoyed them all a lot so far. I've posted a few discussions of Stormlight ideas already. By the official survey, I am first a Truthwatcher and second a Windrunner.

I'm looking forward to participating more here!

This is just a fun thought I had that I thought I would share: it would be so thematically fitting if we unofficially switched from using "climax" to "crescendo" when referring to the climax of this book.

During the live signing spoiler stream, Brandon answered a question about deadeyes not forming until after the Recreance. I have a suspicion that, given the timeline and other information, the binding of B.A.M. might have had an influence over the creation of deadeyes. The chapter 94 epigraph, written by Kalak, says "I was there when Ba-Ado-Mishram was captured. I know the truth of the Radiants, the Recreance, and the Nahel spren". The chapter 97 epigraph (also by Kalak) says "please find Mishram and release her. Not just for her own good. For the good of all spren. For I believe that in confining her, we have caused a greater wound to Roshar than any ever realized". Given that we also know that B.A.M.'s binding happened near the time of the Recreance, it seems like this is more than just coincidence.

Edit: Another piece of evidence for this can be found when you compare the symptoms/mannerisms of parshmen and deadeyes. If they were both caused by BAM's capture, then it makes sense for them to act the same way (docile, able to follow simple commands, lacking agency or ability to talk).

Edit^2: There is more confirmation on this from RoW. Chapter 115 says "Some of this, Kelek said, had to do with the nature of deadeyes. Before the Recreance, they had never existed. Kelek said he thought this was why Mraize was hunting him. Something to do with the fall of the singers, and the Knights Radiant, so long ago -and the imprisoning of a specific spren". This confirms that the parshmen, deadeyes, and BAM are all related (and hints and some interesting motives for the Ghostbloods).

Hello, I am the buddy in question. While I fully agree that he is a bigger fan, I am very glad my question was answered (and am very amused at his frustration).