Firebolt-101

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

By that logic he has already broken his word. That nobody born in Kharbranth died during the battles of Thaylen Fields and Kholinar alone is statistically implausible. It seems to me tht the deal applies to the people residing in Kharbranth.

All of those events happened Before the deal so I don't think they have any bearing 

6 minutes ago, Belzedar said:

I've thought along similar lines about oathbreaking and shard-death. That's why Radiant-spren are "killed" when the Radiants break their oaths; the nahel bond makes the human and the spren into one being, so when the human betrays the ideals that their spren represents, that's the same as the spren betraying its own essence, becoming its opposite and cancelling itself out. I don't think it's a stretch to think that a shard might be killed or splintered in a similar (albeit larger) method.

This could also be due to the sprens relations to the shards (like Syl being an honorspren- a spren of honor). The spren "dying" because of broken oaths could be.... I guess the word would be "inherited" from the shards? And with how it looks like the spren can be reawakened, maybe that's a sign that shards can be reformed after being shatterd?

So while this could be nothing, I was looking through some discussions about stormlight 4 and I started to connect some dots. While it is not confirmed, a lot of the fandom- and myself- believe Hesina, Kaladin's mother, to be originally from Kharbranth. If this is true, we known from the end of Oathbringer that all those who were born in Kharbranth and their spouses will be spared from Odium. We also know that Odium is bound by his word and so he must follow this deal he struck with Taravangian. While I've seen quite a few people saying this deal will end up being bad for Taravangian and that Odium ultimately got the better deal, I think this deal is what will bring about Odium's downfall, not Taravangian's.

Now I should say this having any sort of possibility weighs heavily on Hesina being born in Kharbranth, but under the assumption that she is then this means that Lirin is spared by association. And yet, even with this deal potentially protecting him, much of the fanbase believes Lirin will die in Stormlight 4. This is where I think Odium trips himself up. If Lirin were to die as a result of Odium- so be singers, listeners, or corrupted spren- the deal between Odium and Taravangian will immediately become void. And while we don't necessarily know what happens when a shard's word is broken, it is my personal headcanon that a big part of the process for Honor being shattered was that he in some way broke his word. 

While obviously this has a lot holes in it, I just wanted to point it out as I've been seeing a lot of people talking about the Kharbranth deal and whether or not Lirin will die in the next book.

On 1/12/2020 at 2:54 AM, Dalfiatach said:

What immediately struck me reading that passage was that Odium very carefully specifies the city itself (and why destroy a perfectly good city, his Singers will have to live somewhere after all), anyone in the city currently who was born in Kharbranth and their spouses.

But not their future children.

Odium can stick strictly to the letter of this agreement, and Kharbranth could still cease to exist eventually, as those currently alive grow old and die while Odium disposes of any future human children born? Has Mr T doomed his city anyway...just more slowly?

I don't think so, as long as the people born and living in Kharbranth have children on Kharbranth soil Odium can't do anything to them because they would be born in Kharbranth. If Odium forces them out of Kharbranth however... then we have trouble since he just stated they will live and the city will stand, just not that the same people will be living there.

On 12/24/2019 at 1:06 PM, Q10fanatic said:

I wonder if this is a title granted to Windrunners, due to their relationship with honorspren? Or, maybe to the head of the Windrunners?

My only problem with that line of thinking is that Brandon confirmed there is significance in the Stormfather referring to Kaladin as Son of Tanavast, and I feel like it wouldn't be that big of a deal for him to agree to that if it was just because of Kaladin being a Windrunner.

Lift?

Teft?

Kelsier 

Elend?

Azure

20 hours ago, Invocation said:

Specifically Sadeas's murder? Strangle him (no bloodstain), then take the Shardblade his corpse dropped and chop his limbs off into small pieces (still no/minimal blood because it's a Shardwound) and chuck them out of the window with all my might, then cut a hole underneath something with a lip to fit the Blade in and just shove it in there until I have a week to bond it and no one can find it until I die. Good luck ever finding any remnants of Sadeas, either because they're far away or because they're paste  from the impact at the bottom of the tower.

My only question is, how would you bond it without anyone finding out? You have to carry the sword with everywhere with you when bonding it and you can't send it away like you could a bonded blade

19 hours ago, Lunamor said:

I would kill Sadeas with a shardblade then dump him in Amaram’s quarters. 

That's a good one!! Never thought of that

Oathbringer Spoilers Below!

I was just thinking recently about how Adolin was able to murder Sadeas and get away with it without too much suspicion in Oathbringer and I found myself thinking: How would you get away with murder in Roshar?

Specifically how would you get away Sadeas's murder in Roshar. Would you frame someone? Take Adolin's route and get involved with the investigation? Just curious to see what people have to say! 

Gavilar?

3 hours ago, Weltall said:

While the exact way that Ashyn's magic worked then and works now is not the same as Surgebinding on Roshar the fundamentals of all magic in the greater Rosharan System share the same principles, due to the natural 'pathways' magic there follows because that's how Adonalsium set things up either by intentional design or by natural consequence of everything else that was done to create the system... if those aren't two sides of the same coin.

So yes, while it wasn't Surgebinding as we understand it now, it was still manipulating the same forces that Surgebinding does. Most obviously, they have some equivalent to the Surge of Gravitation which is what keeps their cities aloft.

Ah! Okay, that makes sense! Thank you for explaining!

25 minutes ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

Wait, my understanding was they abandoned their oaths because the found out that the listeners were native to Roshar and they were invaders (a subtle, but important, difference).

I was thinking the same thing. And in that case, it's possible it wasn't surgebinding at all that destroyed Ashyn! (Bear with me, I'm new to the cosmere- all caught up in SA but just finished the first of Mistborn)

Think about it, we know the listeners are native to Roshar, that they took the humans in as refugees, but we don't know exactly what else is native there. What if the spren that appear on Roshar are native or unique to Roshar and weren't present on Ashyn? Then it's a magic system independent to Ashyn that destroyed it, the humans magic.

...... Hesina?? 

I'm so lost 

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 7:52 AM, Awaken Returner said:

Personally, I'd like to read more about Teft. While he, Rock, and Moash took relatively similar screen times in Way of Kings, I can't help but feel that Moash kind of stole most of the camera's focus during Words of Radiance. I think his journey overcoming his fire-moss addiction and overall unhealthy self loathing to become a fully-fledged Windrunner would be very satisfying. (I imagine his character arc will partly culminate with a conflict against Ashertmarn). The backstory of the Envisagers might also shed some light on the Sons of Honour and the Skybreakers; their sudden mass executions, given the fact that they weren't really posing a threat to the rest of the populace, seem too suspicious to me.

Oh, that's a good one! I'd never thought of Teft coming face-to-face with Ashertmarn, or about how sketchy the Envisagers story is- now I really hope we get that!

Let me make sure I got this right: stormlight being drawn in by a person is able to heal them so drastically because it's trying to match the person's cognitive self to the spiritual self?? So Kaladin couldn't heal his brands because he had internalized them to the point that his spiritual self also possessed the brands, and therefore the stormlight wouldn't see them as something to heal, whereas when he was struck in the arm by Szeth's honorblade he was able to heal his arm because he hadn't thought of it as a part of himself? Or do I have this confused?

If not, then to me it would make sense that there would be a difference in healing- with both an individual radiant healing and an edgedancer and truthwatcher healing others. Unless that radiant- let's say Renarin when talking about how Rsyn's legs couldn't be healed- could understand that person's spiritual self and see that there is a noticeable difference between that self and their cognitive self, it's understandable that their stormlight wouldn't be effective in healing them. The time restriction would make sense as a recent wound- such as a someone being stabbed out of nowhere- wouldn't have the same effect on their spiritual self as someone being injured or chronically ill for a majority of their life- their spiritual self would ultimately come to reflect that. I suppose it comes down to how much the person accepts their injury as a part of themselves, which is why a person taking in stormlight is a much more effective way of healing.

2 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

While all of what you wrote seems possible, I don't see Kaladin as needing any further reason to hate Lighteyes. Roshone, Amaram and Sadeas provide more than enough reason.

While I definitely agree, I just find Kaladin mentioning him among Roshone and Amaram- the (at the time) biggest onscreen reasons for Kaladin's hatred towards lighteyes- to mean he added something to his story. It also seems odd to me that he hasn't been mentioned since, almost as if we were supposed to forget about him.

Something I just quickly wanted to bring to light: after three, gigantic books that have spent time focusing on him, we still don't know the entire story of why Kaladin distrusts lighteyes so much. While we definitely see his resentment beginning to dampen, the main causes are not all fleshed out yet. While the obvious ones (Roshone and Amaram) have been addressed, and their arc in his storyline almost, if not completely, done with, that still leaves ones example of betrayal in Kaladin's past that is unaccounted for. And that's where Katarotam comes in.

If you don't remember that name, I can't blame you in the slightest as I forgot it myself since it was mentioned only one time in the entire series thus far.

From The Way of Kings; Chapter 4, pg. 82:

"Under previous masters, he'd demanded his wages be given to him. They had always found ways to cheat him- charging for his housing, his food. That's how lighteyes were. Roshone, Amaram, Katarotam . . . Each lighteyes Kaladin had known, whether as a slave or a free man, had shown himself to be corrupt to the core, for all his outward poise and beauty. They were like rotting corpses clothed in beautiful silk."

However, even with this being his only mention the reader can see the obvious mark this man, Katarotam, left on Kaladin. This raises the question: Who was Katarotam, and what did he do?

While from the text and timeline it's obvious to tell that Katarotam came into Kaladin's life during his enslavement, there is no way to tell the specifics of that as Kaladin said himself that he's, "changed hands a half-dozen times" (pg. 76) since his enslavement. Though with Kaladin choosing Katarotam to be among the men who has hurt Kaladin the most, we can assume that he had left a big impression and I therefore have three possible reasons for this:

1.) Katarotam was the first master to be over Kaladin.

This would make sense as he would inevitable leave a lasting impression on Kaladin, and could even explain how he would manage to betray him. With Kaladin going from 'youngest squad leader in Amaram's army' to 'disgrace slave' in just one day, it would make sense that he wouldn't really know what to do with himself at first. And with no experience in surviving or even living the life of a slave, Kaladin would have no way of knowing what the average life of a slave would be. With that opening, he may have seen Katarotam as he once did Amaram: a man who cared for those under him. Perhaps Kaladin thought he got lucky and ended up with a master who was lenient, but later proved himself to be brutal?

2.) Katarotam was one of the most brutal masters

This is one of the more simple reasons: Kaladin had suffered the worst of his times as a slave under Katarotam. This could still go in a number of ways though- with Katarotam being brutal because he was a horrible man, plain and simple, or being brutal specifically to Kaladin because he had heard of his escape attempts and wished to break him, or perhaps he noticed that Kaladin (a tall, well-built, natural leader) would ultimately bring hope to the other slaves and decided to use him as an example. While I'd say this is plausible, I don't think it's very likely as this leaves no room for betrayal, no room for Katarotam to hide himself behind poise and beauty as Kaladin specifically mentioned in the text. While those examples may refer specifically to Roshone and Amaram (though I don't see how it fits to Roshone seeing as he had it out for Kaladin's family at the beginning) the pause between the mention of Katarotam and the descritpors leads me to believe that most of it was inspired by Katarotam himself.

3.) Katarotam was the one to give Kalain the shash brand

This is the most likely of the possibilities to me as the pain of the branding and the long term consequences it would have on his life would definitely be enough of a reason for Katarotam to be up with Roshone and Amaram. Not to mention the branding takes place just shortly before Kaladin's perspective starts in the first book, with his last master making the decision to brand him 'dangerous.' Not only does it make it recent, life changing, and painful, but it also opens Kaladin up to betrayal. This is where the reasoning would spread out a bit, with a number of possibilities being present to why Kaladin would consider Katarotam to be a prime example of how lighteyes are always different from how they prevent themselves. One reason could be referred back to reason 1, Katarotam had somehow convinced Kaladin that he cared for his slaves. Though this seems a bit flimsy to me, it could also be a good reason for how Kaladin can't even bring himself to fully trust low-ranking lighteyes. Another reason could be that Katarotam used bribery to earn loyalty from his slaves, promising them extra pay or even a chance at freedom if they do their work just right. This could to Kaladin to discovering he's a fraud, ultimately leading to the branding.

These are just my thoughts, obviously we have very little to go off as he's only mentioned in one chapter but I do believe Katarotam will make an appearance in the form of a flashback in the next book (Slight Spoiler) - much like it did with Tarah- by that I mean her rarely being mentioned until we eventually met her in Oathbringer.

On 5/3/2019 at 5:18 AM, cfphelps said:

Keep in mind that the things we see Dalinar doing in the flashbacks may be appaling to the readers, but are the very things that made Dalinar a hero to the Alethi. 

Very true, I'm still flabergasted that they would have let Sadeas get away with leaving Adolin and Dalinar

But on that note I am interested to know what's considered too far for the Alethi....

19 hours ago, Wander89 said:

Why does someone always have to die?  If this has to do with swearing the 4th ideal then I imagine a group would be involved for Kaladin.

I honestly hope no one in Bridge 4 dies, but it's become such a big symbol and group that I don't see anyone NOT dying, sadly.

I personal don't think it'll have anything to do with the 4th ideal, I think that'll tie in more with Kaladin's parents, but I do think Kaladin would be there in the even that one of them dies

6 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

Teft, Skar, and Lyn are the most likely to die IMO. But I hope none of them do! I like them all too much. 

Aw I hope it's not Lyn, I love them!

This is really just a discussion for everyone to add their ideas onto, but to get it started off:

Whether a member dies while fighting the fused, a freak accident, or while protecting someone else, the most likely candidates for who I think will kick the bucket in Bridge 4 would have to be Lopen, Rock, and Teft. While I don't necessarily think they'll have to die in order for Kaladin to swear the 4th ideal, I do think their deaths could be his breaking point. And if there's anything that Sanderson likes to do with characters, it's break them.

After working so hard to protect Bridge 4 and essentially bring them out of the trenches, it would tear Kaladin apart to see one of them die- or even get injured as we saw in Words of Radiance with Hobber. So while that's true, the most impactful deaths for the reader would be a character that we've been the given the chance to get to know.

And so that brings my first candidate, Lopen. I have to say that he is the most probable character for me as of now. Lopen is sort of like a class-clown in Bridge 4 in that he tends to mess and joke around much more than the others, and so it would come as a shock to the readers to suddenly have him cut down and die, leaving a hole in Bridge 4. Without Lopen, they'd be out of a serious need for laughter and light-heartedness and anyone who knows Bridge 4's story knows that that's something they desperately need.

Next up is Rock, but I will admit that I don't think Sanderson will kill Rock- at least not in the first half of the books. The biggest reason he just made my list is because of how much it would hurt the readers. Rock has been a big figure in Bridge 4 since the beginning, and with just that it would make his death heartbreaking. But adding on to how we were able to meet his family in Oathbringer and seeing just how much he cares about everyone around him with the chapters from his point-of-view, the readers would definitely be in tears. Add on the possibility of him dying while trying to tell Kaladin about the Horneater Peaks (of which he always told Kaladin he'd bring him to) and Sanderson has a whole fanbase weeping.

Now is the time for Teft. Teft's death seems both logical and inevitable to me. He served as a friend and leader to Bridge 4 and was a major reason for them getting as strong as they currently are with him helping to train them. The only person to play a bigger role in the rehabilitation of Bridge 4 is Kaladin, and Kaladin himself holds high respect for Teft. Bottom line, his death would be devastating to the moral of Bridge 4. Without Teft, I'm not entirely sure how Bridge 4 would carry on. Everything they would do would remind them that Teft isn't there as it was Teft who helped to train them with the spear, first told them of the Radiant powers with Kaladin, and essentially acted as a grumpy uncle.

That's all from me. Tell me what you guys think! How would the other members react to one of their own dying? What would it mean for the story? HOW do you think they'd die?