Elegy

18 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Yes, I would agree. That is exactly the same logic I come to concerning Scadrial

Well we were told this much: Sazed is still alive, still a Shard, is still considered Scadrian, and is called nice by Ed, in contrast to the Scadrian colonialists, who he sees as very problematic. In contrast to Roshar, we actually know stuff about space age Scadrial, and it seems comparatively safe to say that Sazed isn't acting like Retribution would and hasn't been replaced by something that does. There are workarounds, but those seem like crackpot theories in comparison to the more obvious conclusions, and I also don't think they are necessary to explain it. Like I said, humans have never needed evil gods to do bad stuff.

As for everything else, I've made my points above and they still stand.

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

If you think about the implications of these facts, you realize that we know far more about the state of Roshar then you think

We really don't. Using the same logic, you would have to assume that Scadrial is also ruled by an evil Shard. But human history has shown that wanting to gain influence on weaker cultures is not something that needs an evil god. Everything I said above still stands. We have no idea and almost anything can happen in Stormlight 6-10.

5 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Strongly disagree based on everything we have seen so far I don’t think the situation has changed dramatically at the very least retribution, is still in control of most of those Roshar 

But what exactly are you refering to? We know next to nothing about the state of Roshar. It participating in galactic colonialism doesn't need an evil Shard to explain it, it's an outgrowth of being technologically advanced. Scadrial is doing the same with Sazed still around and being "nice" by Ed's standards. Warlight and singer Radiants can still be a thing without Retribution. What of that is a better argument than "Brandon wouldn't write 5 more books if nothing happened in them"?

We have no idea what Roshar will look like in space age Cosmere, just like we had no idea what post-WAT Roshar would look like after reading Way of Kings back in 2010 ... You gotta remember that we did not know what the Fused even are 3 books ago. I imagine Stormlight will have become an entirely different story within 3 more books, let alone 5. There's still half of the series to go, and it would be ridiculous if after all of that, the 5 million words saga would just end with its main antagonist winning or maintaining the power that he gained after book 5 of 10. Then why would Brandon need to write 5 more books?

I think that the only thing we can assume about space age Roshar right now is that the situation with Odium and the Fused has drastically changed since WAT, just because of storytelling necessities.

Coincidences don't have to be a Shard's plan anyway:

Quote

Kalanit Taub

When Jasnah picks up the bead for the palace, is that the same bead that Shallan picks up in Oathbringer?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Kalanit Taub

Is that a coincidence or is there something else...?

Brandon Sanderson

So, whenever things like that happen you can assume there's little bits of Connection going on that's changing the probability a little bit. You're not meant to read much into it, but the probability is increased because of thing like that.

And you'll find, if you look really closely, there are connections between the characters that are really subtle that I'm doing, that anyone who's touching the Spiritual Realm or thing like that. For instance, in the second book, Syl turns into Shallan while Shallan is washed up on the beach while Syl is talking to Kaladin somewhere else. There's enough Connection going on that you see Syl change shapes, and Kal's like, "It looks like she's walking on a beach!"

It's just Syl... because through all of that, is turning into... You'll find things like that <happening> all through the books, really subtle, really small. There's just meant to be, one of the things in the Cosmere is Connection. Your Connection to people, Connection to things, places, influences probability a little bit.

ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

Although it's certainly fair to criticize the idea that every (possibly just lazy) coincidence in the books can be explained away by Spiritual stuff ... but it technically can

Idk, while Dusk's character arc had him move away from being alone (and autonomous), he will on the long run probably be able to do his part in defending the general autonomy of worlds in the Cosmere:

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"[...] Somewhere out there are people like the Eelakin, who do not know what the stars contain—and the dangers that will soon approach, now that nations can sail the emberdark. I would like the chance to see them first, if I can. To explain, and pass along our wisdom. [...]"

(Dusk, in the Epilogue)

Now that the Navigators - who have their powers because of Patji - can travel the stars, they can warn autonomous civilizations about the impending dangers of the space empires, and some of them might be able to prepare themselves and figure out strategies - at least they will have more time than FOTS had.

And, in a way, Dusk leaving his homeworld and realizing that he does "no longer have a home" but also coming to terms with that is also kinda compatible with Autonomy's Intent as well!

I mean, I definitely agree that it might be the case.

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

7 orbits between pulses from the Eye of Ridos, 7 denominations of the currency, 7 sandmaster ranks, implied 7 colors of starmarks; the only 8 is guild professions

Fair!

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Odium also has the ultraviolet stuff going on.

Yeah but the Well of Control was golden, which for all we know seems to be the most definitive representation of a Shard's color. At the very, very least, golden is much more associated with Odium than with anything about Autonomy we've seen.

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

But Cakoban glowed gold while invested

Yes, but we have no real idea what kind of Investiture he consumed, and the glow of Invested people doesn't always indicate the Shard's color, given that the Elantrians have a silver glow but the perpendicularity of Elantris is blue.

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

seems to be described as suborned Investiture rather than the native color

It can function as both - after all, it is the color that gets filtered from Trellium, which is Autonomy's God Metal (not one she hijacked), so there is good reason to believe that it's actually her color.

I'm not trying to disprove your point though! Colors in the Cosmere are weird and partly seemingly nonsensical, so everything goes. But for the same reason, it's hard to really argue for anything based on color attributions. And for example, while I believe that golden is Odium's color, I don't think that the Iriali are actually connected to Odium. I think they prooobably predate any Shard colors. (Maybe that's the reason why Shard colors are weird? Because there were principles in place before the Shards, then the colors got re-assigned via the Shards and now both co-exist? I have no idea, it's just extremely confusing.)

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Yeah I think it aligns well with the many avatars thing she's got going on.

Yep! But  like I said, I don't think it lines up with how the Many want to morph back into the One. To me it seems like that philosophy encapsules both Autonomy and something opposite to it. Which to me feels like Adonalsium would be a good pick, since it includes Autonomy, but also the aspect that values unity (Honor, Devotion, etc.). Although I don't want this to sound like I'm super convinced that it's an Adonalsium thing. I am mostly super convinced that we can't really have a firm idea of it yet 

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

But everything else seems to line up so perfectly I'm wondering if Brandon has changed his mind.

Meh, the WOB is from 2019 - most of the things you say line up perfectly already did when he said that. If anything, what he released since then seems more and more aligned with the WOB imo (like the golden Well of Control or the red Trellium in the experiment).

1 hour ago, lacrossedeamon said:

There are some hints that Iriali could be connected to Autonomy although a WoB does seemingly contradict that but 7 is most likely Autonomy's number and gold could be her color. It's possible they were also the original builders of the Diem fortress on Taldain.

I mean, it's possible. Lost Metal's Trellium experiments suggested that Autonomy's color would be red. Gold is mostly associated with Odium when it comes to Shards. Not sure about Autonomy's number. I never noticed many 7s in White Sand tho, mostly 8s

Autonomy really fits with the "One became Many" theme! On the other hand, she doesn't seem like she'd want to put the One back together.

On 7/21/2025 at 1:27 PM, Nitpicking said:

Well, Brandon said somewhere that Kelsier would be leading one megafaction in the Space Age. Presumably he's head of the empire.

Where did he state that? Seems very unlikely to me atm, given Kelsier's experiences with empires. I believe he's happy to manipulate from the shadows, it's always been his thing.

I could see the Malwish people excusing their crimes with the religion of the Sovereign, while him handing them the medallions was initially the opposite of what they are doing, an act of helping the abandoned that Harmony had forgotten, like Kelsier always tried to do. That would fit with Kelsier's tendency to make things worse whenever he tries to fix them (rather than willingly making them worse, which is something a large part of the fandom seems to see as his thing instead because of whatever Mandela effect), plus it would create a situation along the lines of "What if a Jesus-like figure was alive to see their religions excuse colonialism with their teachings", which sounds like a Brandon kind of idea.

On 7/21/2025 at 1:27 PM, Nitpicking said:

Also, my reaction to Isles was that Harmony is Kelsier now, Sazed having gone Beyond. No text supports it, just where my mind went after reading SP5.

From what Ed says, Sazed seems to be alive and still a Shard. Or at the very least, if the Pathian religion is led by another Shard by then, it's someone "nice" that contrasts what the other Scadrians do - so not exactly what Ed's opinion on Kelsier would reasonably be.

11 hours ago, TheoreticalMagic said:

I'm wondering if his homeworld is the planet Brandon talked about developing a long time ago, where lightning sparks up from the ground and is sort of an ambient Investiture.

That was also my initial reaction. Interestingly, that was the original world for Dark One before it was pulled out of the Cosmere:

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Rebecca Lovatt

The electricity-based one, is that relating at all to the novella you just put out [Perfect State]?

Brandon Sanderson

No. The electricity one is Dark One. The original idea for the setting for that book is how Nikola Tesla wanted to provide wireless energy to the world, and the experiments he did. I want to have a planet where that is just the natural state of the world. The ground there has an electric current you can harvest; you can set down a lantern on the ground and it will glow, drawing a current up through it into the air or down from the air into the ground. I haven't decided which way it's going to go yet.

Along with that I want to have interesting ecological features. Big toad monsters shoot out a taser tongue, they use spittle that somehow conducts electricity back and forth. Stuff like this. I want to have electricity be my fun theme. The problem with that again is that is very science-based. When I make a big change to the world, like that you can draw an electric current from the ground, then I have to try and figure out the science of how that works.

Rebecca Lovatt

Yeah, especially because you have bodies of water. That seems like it would be fun. You'd suddenly become 10 times more scared of rain.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, if it rains, lightning is going to happen constantly. So how do we deal with this? I'm tempted to make it not rain, -but then making it not rain is yet another big change, so where do we go there? So that one's got lots of extrapolation to do, but I have some friends who are much better at these physics questions then I am. So I'm going to them, and they are pointing me in the right direction.

Arched Doorway Interview (Sept. 4, 2015)

I haven't read Dark One, now I wonder if that story would have made sense in an Invention world.

Whether or not Roshar is unified at this point in time or not, it would take a lot of time dilation shenanigans for Stormlight 10 to take place after Embardark. And imagine five more Stormlight doorstoppers without the Roshar politics changing at all. Why would Brandon even write five more books if that was the case?

I'd have to think about a definitive favorite, but I know what's my least favorite sentence in the book:

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But though there was not a lot of space between Dusk and the monster as it crashed into the unsea, there was a great deal of space between almost eaten and eaten.

(Ch. 59)

I'm not usually bothered by Brandon's prose that much but that sentence is so outrageous, it makes my head spin.

One simple one that I really liked was ... "We have passed the era of gods", from Chrysalis (Ch. 46). Not really original or overly clever, but in the context of the space age, it felt really evocative, like a tagline for that whole era of the Cosmere.

My general feelings are kinda mixed, but in the end I enjoyed reading it.

I agree with what many others said that the plot feels very unfocused. The first part in particular was a pain - as someone who likes the novella and wanted to read it again in the context of the novel, it was impossible for me to get invested in the present or flashback story. I think it would have been better to just handle it like the Edgedancer release with the Lift interlude, just put the smaller work at the front and then get to the main thing.

I was lukewarm on Starling and her crew. None of them (except for Nazh and Crow for obvious reasons, maybe Chrysalis as well) felt really fleshed out. I love the concept of Starling as a dragon apprentice of Hoid and a heroic leader that basically collects castaways in space age, but this book hasn't really sold me on her as a person in contrast to concept. Especially how many scenes were primarily there to beat the reader over the head with how caring and heroic she is felt almost like a parody of the Mary Sue archetype (and I hate to use that word because people are misusing and misinterpreting the term all the time, but here it really does fit), and I have a hard time reading her as a complete, alive person.

I really liked Dusk though. It was a bit disappointing that Vathi was absent for pretty much all the story, but Dusk's character development was really satisfying. (Although the overuse of the "It wasn't a question" phrase was really annoying. 30 years of writing and Brandon still can't help but overuse one term or phrase for each book he puts out as if he's getting paid extra for each inclusion, sigh ...)

The middle of the book really had me losing interest, but the ending was extremely satisfying, to a degree that I think I haven't seen Brandon do in a long time. It all just clicked together nicely in a way I've only ever seen Brandon pull off this consistently, and I left the book feeling very happy about how it turned out. He really understands how to build up dozens of little things and ask many questions that seem impossible to answer, and then he ties all of it together and finds solutions for problems in the most unexpected places. Just a blast to see it all come together.

And in general, despite my gripes, it has softened the disappointment of WAT - not because it was better (although it definitely was imo), but mostly because WAT didn't do a good job to win my interest for the Stormlight back 5 at all, while this one really made me excited about the future of the Cosmere as a whole.

There's so many thing that are just the kind of ideas that I always hoped Brandon would implement in a space age Cosmere: Scadrial's dependency on Aether trading and the problems that arise from that, Shadesmar as an increasingly traveled and politically important place but with the increased danger of the Evil entitiies roaming around, the countless factions that are playing 3D chess in the galactical political landscape of the Cosmere beyond the Shards (inc. Xixis, the Aethers, the Sleepless ...), and the Knell as a way to navigate Shadesmar.

Maaan, the book might have had its flaws, but it was very, very good at making me dream about the space age and make clear that Brandon is really cooking something special with that. And as a person who has been wondering about the Cosmere space age for the last 13 years or so, this sure felt like a gift.

I'm still skeptical that the Iriali are associated with any specific Shard. Their mythology sounds an awful lot like Adonalsium's story (the One being separated into different experiences), and if Cusicesh guides them on the Trial to the One, it seems probable to me that it's older than the Shards and was an original splinter of Adonalsium. (Maybe formed after Adonalsium saw what was coming and wanted to give the Iriali directions, presuming that the Iriali are Yolish.)

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

It was the opposite - at least while Autonomy went full-isolationist. She interfered to boost tech for Taldain (giving Gunpowder to Darkside - as seen in White Sand and Secret History [Khriss' revolver]) and more we have not yet seen, but was hinted by Kelsier in TLM.

  Hide contents

TLM Ep4:

 

Hope that helps

Interesting. This WOB makes it sound like the isolation and Taldain not reaching space travel before Scadrial are causally related:

Quote

Truthwatcher_17.5

Darksiders have almost as advanced technology as second Era Scadrians.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

But then we see Darksiders in The Secret-- in Mistborn: The Secret History. So are they gonna be the first spacefarers, are they gonna get there before Scadrians?

Brandon Sanderson

So, where it is right now is that certain things have happened to Taldain that have isolated it and cut it off.

Questioner

Yeah, a little bit in Arcanum Unbounded talked about that.

Brandon Sanderson

And some-- they're under-- going through some difficult times, let's say... So, I will RAFO whether or not they're going to make it first to make it to space, but let's just say they were well on target to making it first before certain events happened.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

There are also talks about Khriss being back on Taldain - she had been on exile because of Autonomy last we knew -, and Starling considered Taldain a world technologically at least equal to Scadrial - while we know that Bavadin always had a way of hindering technological progress for Taldain (and other worlds, at that, which she obviously absolutely failed at). So yeah, something is up there, either Bavadin has changed her mind about these matters (highly unlikely for a Shard) or the vessel has changed, or Autonomy has been splintered.

Given that Autonomy is set up to be the main antagonist of Ghostbloods, none of this feels very surprising imo, but I was kinda surprised at Brandon dropping so many hints about it.

Can we please just rule out anyone who Hoid has known since they were minors? Brandon is not going to do that.

I also believe that Shai is a good candidate. She is a character with 1) abilities that very well enable memory loss, which can 2) specifically lead to situations where the memory loss is a side-effect of a necessary action (like getting an ability that she can only make believable when she forgets her past, which we've seen her do in TLM), also the fact that 3) she has a history with Hoid, 4) despite having sided with Kelsier, her transformation in TLM lets her become a tabula rasa that can then learn new things that could make her eventually side with Hoid rather than Kelsier. (Edit: We also know from the TSM postscript that early planning stages of that story had her as the protagonist, so at least in that iteration, not only was she still around in the space age, but she also had some motivation to hop around planets and figure out their magic systems - which her relationship with Hoid could explain. Of course, maybe Brandon's plans for her have changed since then, but we could still see it as a possible hint.)

Of course it could also be a character that we don't know, which would be kinda cruel of Brandon to just randomly put this there when we don't even know of her existence yet, but it obviously wouldn't be beyond him. If it is a character we've seen, Shai is far and away the most likely choice in my opinion. But whether that's the case is a shaky assumption.

On 5/13/2025 at 4:34 PM, epl2 said:

What interlude are you referencing? I don't remember that being discussed. 

I think they're referencing the Puuli interlude from Oathbringer (1-I)

On 5/12/2025 at 3:44 AM, Second Chances said:

Does anyone have the page that Holds "you will be warm again" quote from Rhythm of War is from?

I don't have the exact page count, but it's in ROW chapter 80 (The Dog and the Dragon). I think towards the end.

If Herdaz was safe, I'm sure Taravangian would have noticed/noted it. The greatshell is most probably the "hog" from OB interlude 10 (where the Mink is first introduced). As for everything else, I think we can only guess.

On 4/13/2025 at 7:48 PM, S. Stormy said:

If I could ask Tolkien one random question

I would ask

What in the world did Frodo say when his neighbors or any person from his home asked what happened to his finger? Did he try to explain? Did he just make up something? I want to know

Probably just "Oh, it's a long story" and then staring into nothingness with empty eyes until they finally leave.

On 3/14/2025 at 7:04 PM, Oltux72 said:

That would have made the book preachy.

Yet we got Brandon literally preaching to us via Hoid that we should see Dalinar's decision as a good one. While a good chunk of the readers disagrees. To me it sure looks that Brandon didn't accomplish what he aimed at, judging from all that's in the text.

1 hour ago, Qianweilian said:

Again, do we know if this is an oath they made after becoming shards or just an informal agreement before any of them ascended? 

WOB canon is that they had an agreement, not an oath:

Quote

Nameless36

All the Shards basically agreed not to settle on the same planet. Six of them - that we know of - immediately, basically broke that.

Brandon Sanderson

So... they did not make an oath to it. There was a suggestion made... and perhaps the people who made the suggestion did not understand that, if you want the Shards to do something, you need an actual oath. And they did not get one.

Tel Aviv Signing (Oct. 18, 2019)

I'm nitpicking, but Elhokar is not a viewpoint character 

It's Kaladin for me, with Kelsier close by!

As far as we know, Horneater will be written as something that can be read between ROW and WAT, so the Night of Sorrows will probably be out of the equation. That said, the last time we heard about Azure (in the Kaladin vs. Zahel scene in ROW) she was allegedly still lost in Shadesmar, after trying to get to Cultivation's perpendicularity one year earlier. It's weird to me that we haven't heard anything about her in WAT, so I suspect that this will come up. Also, I believe Taravangian mentioned that Dai-Gonarthis was at the Horneater Peaks, so that could also play into it.