Soby

Hey! Yes, my apologies, I mean the stormfather, not Honor. I guess I’m curious as to how long amaram had been having conscious interactions with Odium. I know that the stated goal of the Sons of Honor was to restore strength to Vorinism, but it’s clear that Gavilar was willing to use utilitarian means to do so—he wanted to bring back the heralds and the gods of the Parshendi in order to bring about a desolation—this is utilitarianism at its most basic form (the ends justify the means), which I think Brandon is arguing against in this series—that in real morality, the end does not justify the means, but that the means must be honorable as well. Hence, journey before destination. If Amaram had been having conscious interactions with Odium prior to the battle of Thaylen Fields, I would argue that the sons of honor were bringing about the will of Odium consciously even if that wasn’t what they were doing prior to Gavilar’s death. But those who hold the utilitarian viewpoint in the series seem to end up making deals with Odium: ie, Amaram (from what is implied by his conversation with Dalinar and Kal at Thaylen Fields) and Taravangian at the end of OB. Lastly, if Gavilar was privy to the same visions Dalinar was, it seems strange that his true intent in bringing about a desolation was to restore vorinism since the revelations of the visions contradicted orthodox Vorinism in the first place? Thanks for the reply!

So in the chapter “the weight of it all” in OB, we see this excerpt: “Meridas held up the gemstone, inspecting it, then glanced toward Dalinar Kholin. “So, you’ve been speaking to him all this time too?” “Even longer than I’ve been speaking to you.” The question is, how long had Amaram been interacting with Odium? Prior to the war on the shattered plains? I do not think the deal Amaram made with odium was recent as Odium says “even longer than you,” which leads me to wonder if Gavilar was also in league with, Odium, believing that Odium using a desolation was the best thing for Alethkar and humanity. He thought Eshonai would be “excited” that he had learned how to bring back the Parshendi “gods” which leads to his assassination. It makes me think that while many believe Gavilar was on the same path as Dalinar, that their end goals are very different. I believe that they had similar tactics and strategies while being used by 2 different powers—Gavilar in league with Odium and Dalinar unwittingly being used by him, but also Cultivation. Its why she tells him that it is good for her to have a piece of him even if he ends up belonging to him (Odium). I believe that Cultivation sent the Almighty to Dalinar afternoon he visited the nightwotcher. Thoughts?

I mostly agree with you. I was about 4 chapters from finishing OB when I posted. However it’s strangely coincidental that the almighty chose Dalinar at the same time as odium. I actually think Cultivation saw that dalinar was being used by Odium when he visited the Nightwotcher and she somehow sent the Almighty to Dalinar then. The explanation of the recreance in the last chapters of OB obliterates my theory above—as does the fact that odium isn’t necessarily directly compromising spren but Sja Anat. Anyways thanks for the response and for humoring me!

Yes Venli is a willshaper. They were the only order unaccounted for until she bonded Timbre. Also, it’s apparent that squires can bond a different spren than the one associated with the order they are squiring in, but it seems clear that rlain is currently a squire for the wind runners is it not? In the book scene in OB, a wounded Thaylen soldier asks Lopen how to become a radiant. A quote makes me think Rlain has spoken the first ideal and is squiring with the wind runners: “Good, good! We don’t have a Thaylen yet, and lately it looks like we’re trying to collect one of everything. We even have a parshman!” He’s clearly talking about squires not just members of bridge 4...what are your thoughts?

I also believe Dalinar was Odium’s champion. Dalinar’s vision of the champion corresponds to the vision Kaladin saw in the lighthouse in Shadesmar. However, I wonder what this does to the outcome—seeing as the almighty gave recommendation for Dalinar to persuade odium to take a champion. This also makes me wonder if it’s possible the Almighty is under the influence of Odium? Maybe the Almighty bonding to Dalinar was all a part of Odium’s plan—he’s able to enter the visions and interact with Dalinar and the Almighty seems to be submitted to Odium. Could this be a reason the recreance happened? The radiants could no longer trust their bonds due to the death of the almighty and Odium’s influence on the sapient Spren? just some thoughts...

Been a while since anyone posted to this topic. I have a theory: The possessors of shards are shaped by those shards. If Odium is able to tarnish the spren, maybe the Radiants realized that they had to separate from them in order to avoid being influenced by Odium?

Hi Ookla! Thanks for the welcome! Just SA and I absolutely loved it! People had been recommending BS to me for a long time and I finally gave in a few weeks ago. What would you recommend for the next BS series? I’m just starting The Hyperion Canto by Dan Simmons but will do another Sanderson series after. I just hope BS doesn’t come down with George R R Martinitus with a series this long. I’ve been waiting for books 6 and 7 for years upon years in the ASOIAF series...

Hello Everyone! Has anyone thought about the fact that there will be 10 books in the SA series and that 3 have been published within a 7 year period? Soooo the final book won’t be out for another 21 years...